A Proud Veteran is laid to rest

[flhroy]

http://www.irishmansoftware.com/Oriskany.htm

[Bucks Owin]

Great, if kinda sad photos....

Dennis

[KCSO]

I just hope they stripped this one. The ones my brother sank still had shops full of machine tools, Logan Lathes, Bridgeport Mills ect. They told him that if it wasn't CNC it had no value!

[StarMetal]

I find it hard to believe that nobody bought it for the scrap metals on it. Metal scrap is at an all time high right now, mainly because of China buying it all up. I feel used as scrap would have been better, especially if machinery was aboard it that could have been sold off like KSCO mentioned.

Joe

[Scrounger]

Aw, man, you know how this country operates. Instead of selling the ship and contents to reclaim part of its cost, there are reasons why it was sunk instead. Unsavory and political, of course. Selling it would put us in unfair competition with some companies who have paid good money to their congressmen to see that this sort of thing doesn't happen. That applies to the machinery too.

[nighthunter]

I'm sorry to say but 45,000 americans served on this ship during its lifespan. Maybe a slot in Davey Jones's locker in respect for all that served is more respectful than wondering if you are shaveing with the remains is more importent to you. Scrap metal is scrap metal. The life of the sea is another story. I would have rather been fish bait than have had to go through what most of our POW'S went through. Sure ... I get a check every month from the V.A. but I didn't put up with what those men went through. My deepest respect goes to those that I know little about. You sailors have my complete respect. Yes ..... from the guy that slapped dull grey to the CO .... everyone of you that served during the life of this ship is a hero to me. I live the life today that I live because so many great Americans have gone before me. I salute each and evey one of you.
Nighthunter

[Ol'Scudder]

Seems like we ( Marshall DD676 ) ran plane-guard a time or two for Oriskany in the late 50's, either in Westpac or off the California coast - memory doesn't function well enough to remember for sure.

Not only did they NOT salvage anything, they spent $20,000,000 to satisfy the EPA that she was "environmentally safe" before they scuttled her.

Yep, it's sad alright - as i see her bow disappear, i get the feeling that our country is on the same course - scuttled already, we just don't believe it yet!

Or am i just paranoid - - - - - -

[Bigscot]

I am curious as to what the little boat on the deck that floats off was for.

BS

[flhroy]

Bigscot in that launch was a generator and the controls used to detonate 400 pounds of plastic explosives that scuttled her.

[Blackwater]

Star Metal, you make a salient point. I felt like I'd lost a good friend when I found out my old ship, the Bexar, LPAS-237, was bought by Japan to make razor blades with. Didn't much care for a foreign nation getting my old ship, either. Couldn't help but wonder, for several years, if the blade I was using came from my old ship. That kept the pain and sorrow of losing her going for quite a while.

I think I'd have very mixed and deep feelings about seeing an old military ship sunk. I know I'd be awestruck by the monumental grandeur of seeing a real giant and a soldier go down, but I'd also feel much pity that she couldn't have been covered with a flag in the process. Just doesn't seem right, her going down so "naked."

[flhroy]

Blackwater you are right on about her looking so naked. Looking at what used to be the Oriskany as a floating dead hulk was just as hard as watching her sink. It was kind of like a viewing in a funeral parlor. What you are looking at is just a shell. Nothing like the Pround Warrior she once used to be. At least in her final resting place she'll be home a host of marine life. If she had been cut up for scap she probably would have been sold to China and she deserved better then that. It would have been great to see her as a museum in some port but because she was such a great warrior and the last Essex class carrier on active duty all of the museum billets had been filled.

[Ivantherussian03]

That is a big waste of military hardware there. Those ships are not cheap or easy to build!!

[Bullshop]

Seems to me like with the way the chinese are buyin up scrap they woulda bought it and just floated it over. When I worked in the junk yard long ago we paid $60.00 a ton for #1 steel. Musta been a few ton in that bird nest.
BIC/BS

[bruce drake]

And that is our concern. The Chinese bought the HMS Melbourne in the 80's from Australia with the caveat that it be scrapped. The Flight deck was removed (a prime example of backwards engineeering)and is currently being used to train Chinese Naval Aviators in carrier operations. The actual carrier still sits in a Chinese Navy Yard awaiting a new flight deck 25 years after it should have been scrapped.

The Chinese also bought in 2001 the Ukraine's Minsk Class Carrier the Riga with a contract clause for it to be a floating Casino in Macao. It currently sits in the Chinese Navy's Port at Harbin, over 600 miles from the port of Macao which was too shallow to ever house the carrier. This carrier was sold complete except for communications and electronics which the Chinese have been trying to buy/steal/acquire from US and Europe as quickly as they can.

This carrier can carry the MIG 29 Navy Variant which the Chinese have been building ever since they bought the design from the Soviets. Ask some US pilots which Soviet fighters give them the chills and they'll tell you the MIG29 with a trained pilot.

So with China wanting a Blue Water Navy like the US, they are have already two Aircraft carriers that only require a refit to be able to conduct operations against Taiwan and other South east Asian countries. Adding the Oriskany to the Market where the primary buyers are the Chinese Navy doesn't bode well for SE Asian security.

Iran (A major recipient of Chinese Aid) and Iraq may be on the forefront of our current discussions in the news but people can't forget that China is still out there.

The Oriskany may have been a better idea as a gift to another democratic country for use as a helicopter carrier or a regional transport ship but perhaps the US and Oriskany is better served as having earned her final rest.

Bruce Drake
CPT, US Army

[Frank46]

I served on board the USS FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT CVA42 64-67. SHe was removed from active duty on or about '77-'78. A buddy who subscribed to a magazine put out by moran towing had a one page article on it being towed to kearny new jersey for breaking up for scrap. That was a sad day for me. I can well understand the feelings when others who have served had learned of their ship's ultimate fate. Sad to see the grand old lady go to her reward. Especially that way. Frank

[PatMarlin]

Sad.. :neutral:

Isn't this the carrier that had the famous fire, that Senator John McCain was nearly burned to death in upon landing (or was he about to take off)?

[PatMarlin]

Yes I think this was the carrier. I remember seeing footage of McCain at the fire.

Found this:

USS Oriskany on fire

The carrier was on station the morning of 27 October 1966 when a fire erupted on the starboard side of the ship's forward hangar bay and raced through five decks, claiming the lives of 44 men. Many who lost their lives were veteran combat pilots who had flown raids over Vietnam a few hours earlier. Oriskany had been put in danger when a magnesium parachute flare exploded in the forward flare locker of Hangar Bay 1, beneath the carrier's flight deck. Her crewmen performed fantastic feats in jettisoning heavy bombs which lay within reach of the flames. Other men wheeled planes out of danger, rescued pilots, and helped quell the blaze through three hours of prompt and daring actions. Medical assistance was rushed to the carrier from sister aircraft carriers Constellation (CV-64) and Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV-42).



Oriskany steamed to Subic Bay 28 October, where victims of the fire were transferred to waiting aircraft for transportation to the United States. A week later, the carrier departed for San Diego, arriving 16 November. San Francisco Bay Naval Shipyard completed repairs 23 March 1967 and Oriskany, with Carrier Air Wing 16 embarked, underwent training. She then stood out of San Francisco Bay 16 June to take station in waters off Vietnam. Designated flagship of Carrier Division 9 in Subic Bay 9 July, she commenced "Yankee Station" operations 14 July. While on the line, 26 July, she provided medical assistance to the fire-ravaged attack carrier Forrestal (CV-59).



On 26 October 1967, John McCain flew off of the Oriskany on his 23rd bombing mission of the Vietnam War. He was shot down that day and was a Prisoner of War until January of 1973.

[floodgate]

I remember that well; we were on a technical project at Da Nang (I was a civilian employee of the Navy) when the news came. It was a Mark 24 parachute flare that was dropped and went off. These were BIG magnesium flares, and burned for several minutes, with the parachute acting like a hot-air balloon and holding them up for several minutes. The flares has a high malfunction rate, and they did QA tests on something like 10% of production; they used to drop strings of the test items every night over the ranges at China Lake and watch them for performance.

Our team leader noted that the same flares were being hand-dropped from C-47s (DC-3's), and they took off with them stacked like cordwood next to the door. He asked if they took any precautions to prodect them from small-arms fire, of which there was quite a bit from the jungle under the take-off path. The Marines answered "no problemo". Boss asked them to set up one in the EOD disposal compound and have a Marine fire at it with an M1 Garand (which they were still using in those early days). The flare went off like a bomb, everyone's eyes got REAL BIG, and thereafter they were stacked on a heavy piece of armor plate in the aircraft.

floodgate

[Jumptrap]

Honestley, what else can be done with these old hulks? I am for cutting them up and returning something to the treasury. They should not be sold intact to the Chinks or anybody else. I think it a terrible waste of money.....20 million to satisfy the damned EPA? And a waste of a valuable commodity (steel) to sink them.

These ships are like anything else, they are built and then worn out or outdated. They are unfit for further military service because the hull has problems, the powerplants are tired.....along with everything else or they no longer meet the needs of a modern navy. They were the best of their day.....but those days were over 30 years ago when they were decomissioned. It costs money just to tie them up and let it float. How many refrigerators would that hull have made! It's nice that an example of their type is saved somewhere as a tribute to the men and the battles they served. But to think an entire fleet of them should be kept is a bit much. I think it was the original Saratoga that was sunk completely armed......meaning a full compliment of aircraft......everything...(except sailors)...at the Bikini Atoll H bomb tests. That ship was practically new then, but the Bombers wanted to see how an aircraft carrier would survive 'The Bomb'. The Navy protested but Congress handed it over. The Bomb never did sink it! The first test burned the deck off (teak) and bent some superstructure. The next test she was towed closer and that top parts mostly disappeared then....but she still floated. Finally they torpedoed her. They sunk practically all of the captured Axis ships in these tests.....all sots of Jap and German capital ships. I recall one picture showing a ship being sucked straight up in the air in the mushroom stem.....must have been pretty high....figure the ship was 500+ feet long. I also remember seeing the Prinz Eugen upside down in the lagoon...blew it up on the beach mostly. That was a proud ship and modern.....but it was an E-vil Nazi ship, so it was blown to hell!

[felix]

Jump, I met a chemist who was referred to me during a visit to the Nuke facilities in New Mexico. He was in charge of the atmosphere before and after the H tests at Bilini Atoll. He was/is a wood person, having personally built his home out of exotic woods from around the world he has "worked". He ordered all of the trees larger than 14 inch in diameter off of the island, and had them stored as logs on his "flag" ship. The wood of importance here is called Pisonia Grandis. It is too soft for gun stocks, but it is the most strikingly beautiful wood I have ever seen. I have a slab of it here somewhere. ... felix

[Ivantherussian03]

I think I am for putting these ships into long term storage. The navy probably has several ports; I know Belingham, Washington held a storage facility for many years. The U.S.S. Misouri spent many years there. Ships go into storage and back into service relatively easily. Under no circumstances should they be sold for scrap unless the navy does the scraping. If it is truely an antiquated vessal it could be sold as a military vessal, sripped down of course. I am wondering why the vessal was schuttled now; most likely shrinking operational budgets.

[Ken O]

I think the old ships should be scrapped, melted down and used only to build a new Navy ship. I was a LST sailor during the VN era.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Somehow it seems wrong to me to do this sort of thing.
The museum (sp) route sits easier w/ my mind. More hornorible,right & just.
The youngesters of today might gain some respect for thier flag, & those who fought to give them the freedom they enjoy & take for granted.

[Rafe Covington]

I would much rather see a proud old ship on the bottom than in some scrap yard, it spent its whole on the sea it should rest under the sea at the end.

Its a shame our country is slowly being scuttled by the poloticians.

GOOD SHOOTING