Size question

[35isit]

I have a TC .357mg, a .357max and a DW .357max. I used .359 bullets in the past. How much larger can I go wih an as cast bullet? .001 .003 .005 or what?

What is the thought on the Lee bullt sizers?

[Tazman1602]

I have a TC .357mg, a .357max and a DW .357max. I used .359 bullets in the past. How much larger can I go wih an as cast bullet? .001 .003 .005 or what?

What is the thought on the Lee bullt sizers?

Hey 35,

I've only been here a little while but have learned a lot from these guys. I *think* it's important on that .357 to know the throat diameter of that TC barrel as well as what the barrel diameter is -- ya gotta take a cast bullet if you have one or you can use a fishing sinker to slug the barrel, just pound the slug in the end of the barrel carefully and use some wooden dowels to drive them through. I"ve done this on most of my rifles but not to pistols yet.

If you use a cast bullet make sure its a soft one, not heat treated or hardball or any of that, you may need to make it a bit bigger. Just take and put it on a concrete floor (the lead bullet) and give it a whack right on the nose. Measure and adjust as needed....

From what I understand we need to have cast bullets somewhere from .001 - .002 bigger than the barrel diameter. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong..............

.....and you'll need to do this to each of the three barrels you have, there could be some variances.............

Merry Christmas!

Art

[Kraschenbirn]

Tazman pretty much hit it right on the nose. For your TC barrels, you need to slug the barrels/throats. I once had a TC .357 barrel with a very "tight" chamber/throat that shot exceptionally well with .358 JBs but wouldn't fully chamber rounds loaded with .359 cast without first reaming the brass to thin the case walls.

For your DW revolver, use the largest diameter that the cylinder will accept.

Bill

[Bass Ackward]

Think back when you were in grade school math class and they taught you your gozintas.

If it gozinta the back, it will come out the front.

A fella I knew used .300 diameter in a Ruger 280 Remington cause somebody told him to fill the throat and that's what it actually took. Another guy used .318 in a .308 bore. Worst handgun was .439 in a 44 Mag because that's what it would chamber with a .430 bore.

Safety ALWAYS comes from starting low and working up. Sometimes this raises pressure significantly and apparently, for some folks and their technique, sometimes it doesn't.

[35isit]

I think you are missing the point of my question. These 2 barrels and revolver have been slugged and measured. .359 is the size I need. My question is. If my mould throws a bullet
.00x oversize, How many .00x is too many? I am asking from a safty stand point. I certainly would not attempt to try a .365 or such bullet. Forthe life of me I can'tremember the as cast size of this mould.

[Tazman1602]

I think you are missing the point of my question. These 2 barrels and revolver have been slugged and measured. .359 is the size I need. My question is. If my mould throws a bullet
.00x oversize, How many .00x is too many? I am asking from a safty stand point. I certainly would not attempt to try a .365 or such bullet. Forthe life of me I can'tremember the as cast size of this mould.

Dude if your barrel slugs are .359 then a bullet .360-.361 would be *about* ideal depending on how your gun *likes* them. Don't forget about throat size too.....although .359 could shoot just dandy.....................

Art

[Bass Ackward]

You hear so much about size and everything is different. Lyman said for decades, bore diameter plus .001. Elmer said the same until you got to 44 caliber and then it was up to .005 larger. The real deal is anything we say or quote from other famous folks won't mean squat in the end.

The most common advise for a single chambered projectile launcher is fit to throat or no more than .002 over bore if you have to jump to the lands.

In the end, you must still maintain alignment in YOUR launching system so the correct answer is really the smallest diameter that will maintain alignment so that the cast can enter and hold bore center. You adjust your powder speed and charge to accommodate what ever that differential turns out to be.

Those folks that I quote you above were 1000% satisfied with what they were doing even though it is different from what I would advise.

And when you develop your loads with your technique, you will be the same way regardless of the differential. The key is that it mostly depends on the bullet design.

I shoot anywhere from .001 BELOW bore diameter to .002 above looking at my records. And the most accurate load of all regardless of caliber or gun? Yep you guessed it. The .001 below bore diameter turns out a predictable and reliable 1/2" day in and day out.

Try recommending that as a size and watch the boo birds come out. Most will tell you that .001 under size isn't possible without leading. Oh well ................ :grin:

[Johnch]

I think you are missing the point of my question. These 2 barrels and revolver have been slugged and measured. .359 is the size I need. My question is. If my mould throws a bullet
.00x oversize, How many .00x is too many? I am asking from a safty stand point. I certainly would not attempt to try a .365 or such bullet. Forthe life of me I can'tremember the as cast size of this mould.


No I don't think he did
Regaurdless of what the barrel slugs
The chamber is what decides how large you can go

I had a 44 that had a .430 barrel , but the max I could get to chamber was .429
So I had to live with boolits .001 under bore dia till I got the chambers opened

But my one TC 357 Max has a .359 barrel
But the chamber will allow a .364 boolit to be seated and chambered in it
I made up a sizer die and crimp die so I now use .362 dia boolits

I size to fit the chamber , the throat will center the boolit and do any sizing down to fit the barrel as you fire
IMO it will raise chamber pressure so little , you will never know the differance unless you are shooting a MAX load to start with


John

[lylejb]

I think what you're asking is "how much oversize is too much?" That's a question your gun can answer alot better than anyone of us.

A cast boolit is relativly soft, and as such, will be formed down to the smallest of bore or throat size when fired. Will this raise chamber pressure? probably, that's why you need develop your loads starting low and working up.

As a rule of thumb, .002 over slugged size is where you want to be, but all guns are individual.

It sounds like you're wanting to know if you can shoot as cast. Get a Micrometer reading of your boolits as cast. You can also make up a few dummy rounds with the as cast boolits, and see if they chamber ok. If they chamber ok, you could start working up a load. start low and work up, watching for pressure signs.

Personally, I size every boolit. It's just one of the variables I CAN control, so why not?

My Dan Wesson 357 mag slugs .357 in the bbl, and 3@.358, 3@.3585 in the throats. I size at .359 and it works great. I use the Lee push through die. Mine was slightly undersize from the factory. I sanded it out with 600 grit wet or dry sandpaper on a wooden dowel. Took about 10 minutes to do, now I exactly the size I want.

[StarMetal]

You hear so much about size and everything is different. Lyman said for decades, bore diameter plus .001. Elmer said the same until you got to 44 caliber and then it was up to .005 larger. The real deal is anything we say or quote from other famous folks won't mean squat in the end.

The most common advise for a single chambered projectile launcher is fit to throat or no more than .002 over bore if you have to jump to the lands.

In the end, you must still maintain alignment in YOUR launching system so the correct answer is really the smallest diameter that will maintain alignment so that the cast can enter and hold bore center. You adjust your powder speed and charge to accommodate what ever that differential turns out to be.

Those folks that I quote you above were 1000% satisfied with what they were doing even though it is different from what I would advise.

And when you develop your loads with your technique, you will be the same way regardless of the differential. The key is that it mostly depends on the bullet design.

I shoot anywhere from .001 BELOW bore diameter to .002 above looking at my records. And the most accurate load of all regardless of caliber or gun? Yep you guessed it. The .001 below bore diameter turns out a predictable and reliable 1/2" day in and day out.

Try recommending that as a size and watch the boo birds come out. Most will tell you that .001 under size isn't possible without leading. Oh well ................ :grin:


John,

In the Lyman cast book I have just about everything is sized right to groove size. That's not what I recommend though.

Under size is possible, but I'm not telling how.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

John,

In the Lyman cast book I have just about everything is sized right to groove size. That's not what I recommend though.

Under size is possible, but I'm not telling how.

Joe


Joe,

oooops! You are right. It was the one before last. It is different in 3 of the last 4 editions. I simply get confused in remembering knowing that a fixed definition is useless anyway.

But for a new guy, it's hard to imagine what I wrote. And he is looking for a cut off believing that one has to exist. And it only exists based upon his firearm, bullet design, reloading habits, and his own shooting goals.

Oversize does raise pressure if you want to try and shoot cast by the accepted definition. (ultra fast powders for a cartridge)

But if you want to substitute cast for jacketed for a cartridge and use slower for cartridge powders like you would for jacketed, then over pressure is less observed. In fact, some situations, it only improves ignition that was badly needed anyway.

Thus the key we all live by, to always start low and come up. See what the gun (expert) says.