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View Full Version : Placing LLA over already cast/lubed boolits?



DEVERS454
05-24-2006, 01:20 AM
I have seen some references to useing Lee Liquid Alox on already sized/lube boolits as well as jacketed.

Is there a definative set of statitics to show that this process improves the accuracy or reduces fouling at all???

Junior1942
05-24-2006, 06:52 AM
I do it with all bought cast bullets. No statistics, but it costs maybe 3 cents for a box of 500 bullets so why not? Call it leading insurance.

versifier
05-24-2006, 02:32 PM
I know this is getting to be a mantra, but it won't hurt to repeat it one more time. Every barrel is different. The only way to find out if it works best in yours is to try some each way, shoot and measure some groups, and look at the bore with a strong light source to determine the extent of the leading as it happens (or hopefully doesn't happen:-D ). I like LA and have good results with it. Some boolits like a light coat, some a thicker one, some a double coat. I like to put on a thick coat before sizing on higher velocity rifle loads - I want to see the lube grooves as full as possible. For plinking loads in my handguns, a thin coat is usually all that's needed, but with two of my revolvers (.38spec/.357mag) both like the same boolit, alloy, charge, only one needs a thick coat or it won't group was well. I never would have known the difference if I hadn't gotten curious and experimented.

Bucks Owin
05-25-2006, 07:59 AM
I do it with all bought cast bullets. No statistics, but it costs maybe 3 cents for a box of 500 bullets so why not? Call it leading insurance.

And good insurance it probably is!

I've tried several boxes and weights of Speer lead bullets with the moly coat "lube" and can say that the molycoat doesn't work! (For me at least) Tried the 148 BBWC and their 158 LSWC in both varieties and got some bad leading in my M19 Smith....
I quit buying Speer lead boolits but if I was to get some free, I'd certainly try the LLA!

FWIW,

Dennis

waksupi
05-25-2006, 08:14 AM
If you want to go for more lube, and they are sticky, you might try a coating of motor mica. The shearing action would be pretty slippery.

Bass Ackward
05-25-2006, 12:31 PM
I have seen some references to useing Lee Liquid Alox on already sized/lube boolits as well as jacketed.

Is there a definative set of statitics to show that this process improves the accuracy or reduces fouling at all???


Devers,

Those are not the only reasons that LLA is used over already lubed bullets. It also prevents fliers on some .... ultra slipery lubes like LBT Blue that is famous for throwing fliers.

It all depends on the use. It can also increase bullet diameter on a bore ride nose by say .001. This helps with centering until the bullet moves into the bore OR it can aid extraction for noses that fit too tightly. Or LLA can increase the HV potential of a lube also by augmentation.

But if you are looking for statistic's, the only ones that matter are yours. Problem is that you have to develop them to obtain them before you can truely answer your question.

DEVERS454
06-07-2006, 12:04 AM
Gonna try it with some 300gr in my 454 and see how it goes..

I'll post results this week if I get to the range in time.

fatnhappy
06-07-2006, 12:13 AM
I have a .41 that used to lead. One of the fixes I tried was LLA over the sized and lubed bullet. It didn't work, lapping did. Would it work for somebody else? I dunno. It's a cheap recourse in any event.

Have you been fighting a leading or fouling problem?

DEVERS454
06-07-2006, 11:19 PM
No leading or fouling, but, my Raging Bull doesn't seam to like the Lee 300gr bullet at s much as I would have thought.

45lc with the same bullet, it APPEARS to zero in just fine on my Ruger blackhawk and redhawk. 45lc in my winchester trapper is just fine. (could be a bit better... its probably me, though with the rifle)

200gr CAS type loads in 45lc, I can get PERFECT 1" groups at 25 yards with my Raging Bull. Even heavy recoil 454 jacketed loads I get under 3" consistently.

I just need to find a load that doesn't recoil too much and yet works with the lee 300gr. I can't believe I can only shoot these with 45lc cases and lower pressures.

Bass Ackward
06-08-2006, 06:15 AM
No leading or fouling, but, my Raging Bull doesn't seam to like the Lee 300gr bullet at s much as I would have thought.

45lc with the same bullet, it APPEARS to zero in just fine on my Ruger blackhawk and redhawk. 45lc in my winchester trapper is just fine. (could be a bit better... its probably me, though with the rifle)

200gr CAS type loads in 45lc, I can get PERFECT 1" groups at 25 yards with my Raging Bull. Even heavy recoil 454 jacketed loads I get under 3" consistently.

I just need to find a load that doesn't recoil too much and yet works with the lee 300gr. I can't believe I can only shoot these with 45lc cases and lower pressures.


Mr Devers,

You could have a long process ahead of you. What kind of groups are you getting?

What I would do is guess at the pressure that you are finding success with the CAS load. The light load will yield important pressure information as it relates to your gun and the bullet / hardness. Then just try and pick a powder to duplicate that same pressure range in the 454 case based upon the velocity range you want to operate. Catch my logic?

This may or may not be the same powder. It might be slightly slower or it could turn out to be faster. Again this depends on the pressure and the velocity that you want to generate. Might involve a primer change to a hotter primer too. I am Bass Ackward in my primer use with cast. I usually use a magnum primer with light loads and transfer to a standard primer as pressures come up into a range that they are no longer needed to produce ignition. Why with rifle cases, I will even drop to a pistol primer as I go hot with slow powder loads to ease the start of the cast bullet. Just the opposite of jacketed training.

It could be other things involving your reloading practices too. But you loaded accurately twice, so start with my logic above. This should be your first step unless you have already tried it. But record pressure data everytime you get an accurate load in any gun. Then you have an idea what is possible with that bullet / hardness in that gun. As you advance, you can play with mix and diameter and reach the same goal, but that is more complicated than this post is addressing.

RangerBob
06-08-2006, 06:50 AM
Example: Ruger Blackhawk with .45ACP cylinder.

I was using cheap, machine cast, store bought, 230 grain round nose bullets. Amazingly, they were VERY accurate over 6gr of Unique. But they did lead the bore lightly.

I tried a coat of LLA, and the leading went completely away. The accuracy was unaffected.

FWIW

454PB
06-09-2006, 12:46 AM
I know you visit the 454 site, have you seen this?

http://www.ezforums.org/454Casull/uploads/454PB/2005-05-05_163547_Taurus_RB_target.jpg