Rcbs 82030 dewc?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy!

I cast up a bunch of these, my question is how far should I seat them?

If you look at the second from the top (front) lube groove is the same location of the "crimp" groove on the Lee TL358-158SWC next to it which weighs about 157gr, the RCBS DEWC's are about 153gr . . . so I figured that if I seat them the same depth in the case, that the same powder charge should work. Right?

If I push them in the case further, (Like crimp over the nose) I should reduce the powder charge?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Sizing015.jpg

Looking at the picture "blown up' now I see the Sprue end seem to be smaller diameter than the other end, looking at the xlox, as these went through my lee push through sizer at .3584, I have given them another coat, shoud be ready to load these tomorrow . . . the TL needed to be re-melted and I "Lee-mented" it and got them up to .3584 as cast . . . they were .3574 before (in above picture)

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Wow! Nothing . . .

Well I guess everybody who knows is busy, so . . .

I decided since I wanted to go shooting this afternoon to load up some of these, and my Speer manual shows .1gr more powder for the min load on thier 148gr wc than thier 158gr swc.

So I prayed about it, and got to loading . . . this is what I ended up with:
L to R: .357 Mag - 38 Spl w/157gr SWC - 38 Spl w/153gr DEWC seated to the second loob groove - Seated to the first loob groove - Seated to the nose.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC012.jpg

The majority I loaded to the second loob groove, which is the same amount that the swc are seated into the case . . .
200 rounds - 20 different loads, or variations of 10 rounds each:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC013.jpg

I'll let you know how they do . . .

IMR Trail Boss is kinda pricy at $13.95 per 9 oz and light weight:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC007.jpg

Looks like little donuts! They say they made this powder for coyboys, but I'm wondering if the LEO's (Law Enforcment Officer's) know about this!:grin:

[Bob Krack]

The two centermost pictures of the .38 are most likely the best for using your swc data. To play it safe, reduce your load by 5% and work up from there.

Bob

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

The two centermost pictures of the .38 are most likely the best for using your swc data. To play it safe, reduce your load by 5% and work up from there.

Bob

There all loaded . . . the ones I seated deeper are not max loads, and I figure if they are a bit "stout" that my 357 should handle 3.0gr of bullseye in a 38 case . . .

The Speer book has 148gr BBWC info, but is actually a higher amount of powder . . .

Trail Boss max is the same for 158grswc of 4.2gr in BOTH 38 spl & 357 mag . . . not sure what is going on with that . . .

[Hardcast416taylor]

The 2 loaded rounds on the right side are how I have loaded umpteen thousands of these bullets. The far right one I loaded for a Model 52 (?) S&W semi-auto. I used HP-38 and Win. 231 with 3.5 gr. charges mostly. I used Red Dot some though not in the S&W. I always loaded the sprue end on top, I noticed the slight difference in diameters also. I finally got a Lyman 4-holer 148 gr. wc mold that had a semi nose on one end, I sold my double ended mold and didn`t have to figure which end to have on top after that. Robert

[Eutectic]

If it were me, I'd seat and crimp in the first lube groove sprue up. I like a forward band out of the case for concentricity of load to chamber alignment. Unless your TrailBoss doesn't leave you room.

Personally, I see no advantage to a double-ended wadcutter. I guess a progressive type production-type loader would suffice with them.... I am so into uniformity it would drive me nuts seeing the sprue cut up sometimes... then sometimes not.

Eutectic

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Trail Boss Max is 4.2gr, I loaded 3.8 in 38 spl case there was still some room left, but with the max charge it will be full! I forgot to measure how much room was actually left, but I did compare it to the boolit holding it next to it . . .but I think I was holding it at the 2nd loob groove . . . next time I'll have to measure, I know these I loaded aren't compressing the powder . . .

3.8 gr in 38 Spl:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC008.jpg

I load on a Rock Chucker II so I have time to look . . .

I loaded most (except where noted) nose forward/sprue at the back towards the powder.

[MKT]

The two on the far right are close to how I seat my H&G #50 wadcutters, maybe closer to splitting the difference. For those solid base WC I'll use 2.5 or 2.6 grain of Bullseye and get 750 FPS from my 6" barrel competition gun.

I will also use 231 if I am low, or out of BE, but don't recall the charge off hand. I tried Trail Boss once, but prefer to use TB in my .45 Colt loads.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

In SP 101:
6.9gr Blue Dot did 5 in 3 13/16" group, best 4 were 1 3/8" tiny bit of leading - 2nd loob groove.
3.0gr Bullseye did 5 in 2 1/32" group, best 4 were 1 3/4" a bit more leading - 1st loob groove . . .
3.8gr Trail Boss did 5 in 2 5/32" group, best 4 were 29/32" about the same leading as above, - 2nd loob groove, my wife wiggled the table I was resting on, at the last stray shot . . .:cry:
2.7gr Trail Boss did 5 in 2 13/16, best 3 were 1 1/16 NO LEADING! - 2nd loob groove, loaded sprue first. (Loaded with the "nose first' was 3 5/8" group and some leading!)

In Security Six:
3.0gr Bullseye did 5 in 2 5/8" group, best 4 were 2 1/32" a bit of leading - 1st loob groove . . .
2.7gr Trail Boss did 5 in 2 15/32" group, best 4 were 1 7/16" less leading than above - 2nd loob groove, nose first. (Loaded "sprue first" was 4 19/32"!)
3.2gr Trail Boss did 5 in 4 7/16" group, best 4 were 3 1/4", almost NO Leading, but a tiny smudge! - 2nd loob groove.
My wife was shooting this, and only put the butt of the gun on the sand bag . . . I pushed the trigger guard into the sand bag, and rested the barrel on top of it, and covered my right hand with my left, maybe why I shot better than her today, but I also have fire lapped mine a tad more than hers . . .

This is her shooting . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqpLd4NDD4Y&feature=channel

And me . . . she had never used the video camera before and we did not realise that we could not "turn it 90 degrees" at least were are not smart enough, or don't have the right software . . .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiWkbQOKZQk&feature=channel

We spent a nice sunny day out shooting for three hours!:)

The 357 mags were loaded in the 2nd loob groove, tooooo looong! were pushing into the throat, I need to pull those, and seat them in further . . .

I got more testing to do . . .


[smilie=s:

[35remington]

It's remarkable how the change in seating depth will change the velocity with the same charge. The deeper they're seated, the faster they go. The shallower they're seated, the slower they go.

Actually, it's not all that remarkable, I guess. Less case space means more pressure.

To realize the full velocity potential of a snubnose, five shot revolver, I have seated out wadcutters similar to those of yours that show two bands out of the case, and obtain higher velocity (with more powder) than would be possible with a near flush seated wadcutter while remaining at standard .38 Special pressures.

Since a small two inch .38 is a close range, fifty yard and under gun anyhow, such seating to leave some of the wadcutter out of the case optimizes the accuracy and hitting power using a blunt, flatnosed bullet. I prefer to load to standard power levels, not +P, and even the short barrelled .38 can exceed 800-825 fps or better with said wadcutters at reasonably mild standard pressure with such fast powders as Bullseye.

If the case space after seating leaves the same to less wadcutter length remaining inside the brass as a 158 SWC, I use the same load data. The peak pressure has gone long before the front of the bullet hits the forcing cone, so the greating bearing length of the wadcutter doesn't come into play in affecting pressures versus the semiwadcutter.

The better aerodynamics and range of the SWC don't factor into my shooting of the shorty .38, so cast wadcutters are really all I need with this gun.

[Echo]

In SP 101:






The 357 mags were loaded in the 2nd loob groove, tooooo looong! were pushing into the throat, I need to pull those, and seat them in further . . .

[smilie=s:

I don't see the problem with the boolits pushing into the throat, unless they were larger in diameter than the throat. Otherwise, they will simply serve to center the cartridge and boolit more closely to the centerline of the chamber and hopefully the barrel.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I did notice in the three different seating depths, with the powder all at 3.0gr Bullseye that the deeper they were seated the more leading I got . . . So I assumed that they were going faster . . . I don't have a chrono.

I loaded up some more last night, with a 10% reduction, and seated them to the 1st loob groove, I took the loads that did fairly well yesterday . . .

I also measured how much case space I had with the Trail Boss . . .with 3.4gr in a 38 Spl case there was about .481" of space left for the boolit, which if I seated it to the 1st loob groove would be about .468" so just a tad bit of "extra" room! I'll see today how they do!

Echo:
The boolits are a tight fit in the throats, but I can push them through with my thumb . . . So . . . I just felt like it might not be a good idea . . .

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I saw my wife's Security Six do better with a reduced load of 3.2gr Trail Boss down to 2.9gr, but seating it to the 1st loob groove . . . went from a 4 7/16" group, down to 2 1/8" and a small amount of leading. (She told me later that she really did not feel like going shooting :-? (Once she just "got it over, by squeezing them off double action! So . . . I may have to re-do some of her testing, but I think that loading them sprue 1st is the way to go . . .

My SP101 Reduced Bullseye from 3.0gr down to 2.7gr went from a 2 1/32" five shot group, down to 2", but still lots of leading. (both were seated to the 1st groove)

BlueDot 6.9gr 2nd groove did 3 13/16" group, and a tiny bit of leading, reduced to 6.4gr and 1st groove did 1 25/32" a tiny bit of leading, but slightly more than the other round . . .

Trail Boss 2.7gr 2nd groove, did 2 13/16" and NO leading, 2.4 1st groove did 2 7/8" with a tiny bit of leading, both turn sprue 1st. (Nose 1st did 2 3/16", but more leading . . .)