Shooting "as cast"??

[cricco]

Greetings folks. This is my first post. I've been reloading for several months, and I love it. It's starting to get expensive though. That's what has brought me to casting my own. I finally decided to order the equipment to get started, and I fear I may have made a mistake. I have included a list of everything I purchased. The problem is that I do not have a lubriszer. A friend who casts bullets is telling me that I cannot use the moulds below as cast. That is, I was hoping to cast, tumble lube, load, and shoot them. I have a Glock 17 and a S&W 1911 that I will be loading for. My friend says that if I try to shoot these bullets without sizing them with a lubrisizer, I will have huge pressure spikes and probably blow up my guns. Is he right? Can I use these without sizing?? All items were ordered from www.wideners.com. Thanks for any help. I'm hoping to spend a lot of time on this forum.


90009 LEE PRODUCTION POT IV
90029 LEE INGOT MOLD
90465 9mm (.356dia) 124gr Six Cavity mold
90310 45cal(452dia) 200gr SWC Six Cavity Mold
90005 Lee Mold Handles
90177 Lee Liquid Alox (4oz)

[Gun Junkie]

circco,

Ok, I got more bad news for you. I don't know whether it really makes a difference or not, but I think that Glocks aren't supposed to be used with cast boolits, unless you change to a regularly rifled barrel. Do a search and you can find the controversy with that one.

On the other hand if you want to size you pistol boolits, and you're using Lee stuff why not use their push through sizer die and the liquid alox you've already purchased. It uses your regular press.

Also I would cast and measure the diameter of my boolits. You may not need to size anyway, depending on your lead, mold and casting temp.

Good luck to you. Most folks here are real friendly and happy to help a newbie. Every once in a while you will run into some that might just pull your leg a little.....

...Oh I forgot. If you walk around your boolit mould during a full moon with a lead ingot in each hand and clap the ingots together at midnight (mind your thumbs now) your mould will produce perfect boolits every time. So many forget this step and spend a lifetime trying to figure out how to get perfect boolits. :mrgreen:

[docone31]

I make my lube, pan lube them, and use the Lee Push Thru Sizer Dies.
Works so well for me, I have not looked further.

[Gohon]

I have a couple Lee moulds each for the 357, 45 Colt, 1911, and 30 caliber. The 357 moulds drop at .360 and the 45 drops at .4545 and the 30 caliber drops at .311, all using cast wheel weights with 2% tin and no water quenching. I shoot them as dropped from the moulds in a 1984C, 1894 Colt, 336 30-30, and a Taurus 1911. Great accuracy, no pressure signs and no leading. I don't even own a lube sizer so when I do decide to resize I use the Lee push through sizer. In my opinion your friend is very wrong on all accounts.

Just saw Gun Junkies comment on the Glock and I think he is correct. Maybe that is what your friend was basing his opinion on.

I tried that walking around the mould on a full moon thing..........it didn't work.

[iron mule]

welcome circco/// as to the answer to your question on sizeing before shooting the only true way to answer that is for you to know the bore size of your barrels // i have some guns that the boolets do not require sizing before loading and shooting and some that the same boolet needs to be sized before using/// also you did not mention if the moulds were the tumble lube design or regular design /// do a search here on sizing bullets also on slugging your barrel and this will help you find info that you need
also do a search on the alox lube there are a lot of good info on how to use it// here is one hint use it sparingly it does not take much and cut it 50/50 with mineral sprits
welcome to the club you will find a lot of good info and friends here
merry christmas
mule

[HeavyMetal]

Get your gear together heat up the pot and make a couple hundred.

Then "mike" them for diameter, if it's not out in left field make up a dummy round and see if it chambers, if it does lube up the rest of the bolits load and shoot!

Be aware that top loads in any manual need to be worked up to, other than that your friend is mildly mistaken.

Also do the research on the Glock barrel. I've heard this can be a problem but will never own a Plastic gun so never really worry about it!

[jack19512]

Ok, I got more bad news for you. I don't know whether it really makes a difference or not, but I think that Glocks aren't supposed to be used with cast boolits, unless you change to a regularly rifled barrel. Do a search and you can find the controversy with that one.






There is a sticky about this subject in the Wheelguns, Pistols and Handcannons section. I have shot my cast in my G26 9mm and have had no problems but I clean after every cast boolit shoot and have never had any leading so far. I just purchased a new Glock 45 Gap and plan on shooting my cast in it.

[Bob Krack]

Yes, research the Glock barrel but do not be too concerned about the possible over size .45s (as cast) if they chamber properly.

If they chamber easily just start with the "starting" load and then let your gun "talk to you".

If you are wanting to use your .45 for 1000 yard matches, you might want to do more load development! :veryconfu

My idea is that a .45 ACP that can shoot (rapid fire) minute of gallon jug at 25 yards or so, well, that is what it was designed to do. :mrgreen:

Bob

[DLCTEX]

Many members of this forum shoot cast in their Glocks with no ill effects. Key is good boolit fit, good lube, and don't push too hard on the velocity end. And +1 on the Lee push through size dies, they're not too expensive.

[cricco]

Thanks for all the advice guys! The Glock I'm not too concerned about, I'll be using a Wolf barrel for it. As for the Lee Push Through Sizer, will this work with my Dillon RL550B?

[mooman76]

I would say you probably will be able to shoot as cast with what you have selected. But....as the others have stated you won't be able to tell until you get your mould and slug your guns or you try it and see. The 40 is the worst for Glocks and cast but still doable with caution or you can get an aftermarket barrel. Do research on it and watch it carefully. Also like stated you can go with the Lee sizers which are fairly cheap. I shoot most of my pistol ammo as cast.

[Ekalb2000]

I dont size for the 9mm, 38sp, 357, or 44mag.
But I size the -06 boolits in a lee push thru mainly to seat the gas check.
Have never had any problems.

[mooman76]

The Lee sizers work with any standard press.

[Shiloh]

Welcome to the forum.

The 90310 Is a good boolit, and works well with alox. I keep them less than 850 fps. LEE push through size dies are a good investment that are economically priced.
The are easy to use and keep things consistent. I have also used traditional sizing and lubing as well.

I have an aftermarket barrel on my Glock. 22 I have KaBoomed two with lead boolits.
That was with 175 gr boolits. I think that lighter boolits are a better choice with the .40

Shiloh

[ghh3rd]

When you get the Lee sizer, you get a container that fits to the top that the boolits fall into as they are pushed up and out of the sizer. You also get a tube of Alox. Not bad for only about $15.

Randy

[randyrat]

Good advice so far..... The problem may be the STORM barrel chamber may be tighter than the stock Glock, so to chamber you may need to size.
I loaded for the G22 (forty) and i would take the barrel out(for safety reasons) and place a dummy round in it. If the dummy round would chamber most of the way(without too much force) i would shoot it without sizing. You could always make a dummy round and check your chambering with it (safer than a loaded round)
I liked my Gaston inspiration, hardly never had to clean it, only when the feed ramp was so dirty it wouldn't chamber another round.

[45nut]

Dillon 550 does not use a standard shellholder to slip the push rod in to shove the boolits through, you will need a non progressive:IE single stage press for that.

[Mk42gunner]

Dillon 550 does not use a standard shellholder to slip the push rod in to shove the boolits through, you will need a non progressive:IE single stage press for that.

The good news about this is that you can use the cheapest, lightest single stage press there is for the Lee push through sizer; weather you order a new Lee hand press or buy a cheap used press at a gun show. It doesn't take very much force to size boolits.

Robert

p.s. Welcome aboard

[Bret4207]

Stop listening to your friend as far as cast goes. He knows not of what he speaks...

[44man]

Lead is very forgiving. The fellas are correct in that if the round chambers---shoot it! ;-)
Normal load workup is all that is needed.
I shoot very over size boolits in some guns and only use the Lee sizer to remove excess lube in 99% of cases, I lap them larger. I even shoot .464" boolits out of my 45-70 rifle that has a .459" groove. Ditto a .478" out of a .475. I size, well not really size, these with a .476" die because they drop from the mold at .476". Then I let them harden and grow before loading.
The only problem is to use the right crimp die that will not size as you crimp.
One other thing you need to try though after you test the liquid Alox is to try a good lube like Felix that you can rub into the boolit with your fingers, then remove the excess with a Lee die. You might see a great difference in accuracy or the Alox will work OK.
Bret said it the way it is.

[243winxb]

I will have huge pressure spikes and probably blow up my guns. Is he right? You friend is wrong. What you are more likley to have is jams, poor accuracy, leading by not sizing to the correct diameters. Changes in alloy will give you a different size diameter bullet as it drops from the mould each casting. Plus most bullets from the mold will be out of rounds by about .0015" or more . Add to your list of things to buy, a sizer OR 1 bullet puller.

[Jayhem]

You really must have a good quality micro-meter to measure your as-cast bullet diameters. Even under ideal conditions it's possible that a few bullets will drop out of round and well oversized (ie: if the mold didn't close all the way). Best to resize them all just to be safe. I love my Lee push through sizing die.

[XWrench3]

usually, with lee molds, you can shoot them as cast. you will notice that i said "usually". that means you do need to check at least a dozen of them, to make sure that the boolits you are dropping are not of excessive size to be shot as is. that means that you also need to slug your bore, to find out how big it is. usually, if it chambers, you can shoot it. BUT, it will depend on the load as well. personally, i dont load the majority of my cast boolits hot. 1) i do not want to clean lead from the bore. 2) part of the reason for casting my own is to save money, not a lot of sense in dumping a bunch of money in powder just to go fast. i'll save that for hunting. 3) i do not know about glocks, i have read that some have problems, but since i dont own one, i just basicly dismiss it. you need to do your own homework on this one. 4) if you do need to size them, just buy the lee sizer die (kit), they work great. i thin the lube that i use for the sizing, for two reasons. 1 is to save money and 2 is you dont need a lot of lube to push them through a die @ 1" per second. 5) yes, the start up cost of reloading /casting is fairly high. the thing is, that over the years, as you cast / reload tens of thousands of rounds, it pays for itself many times over. or you can think of it like i do. the money that you have spent so far, is just water under the bridge, now, it only costs pennies to shoot, instead of dollars.

[bigdog454]

I use the lee mold for my 45 cal pistol bullets. One of my 45 colts shoots best with as cast one shoots better with sized to 451. my buddy's also likes them sized. My old 3 screw likes them sized and my redhawk likes them unsized, go figure. Try them both ways and see which your gun likes.

[HammerMTB]

Following what has been said about glocks and cast, I use cast in my glocks, but like you, use aftermarket bbls. I have shot cast from my OEM polygonal rifled bbls, but in small amounts, so don't know if leading might occur if shot in large qtys.
what I want to add is that the aftermarket bbls are tighter chambered. to get initial fit and far fewer jams, I take my bbl off and make sure rounds fit all the way to the bbl hood with no more than thumb pressure. I allow the dull edge of my knife under the case rim to remove, but it better not take much force, or it is too tight. This may be where you find you will need to size your boolits. OAL is your other consideration, and it will show right away when the loaded round won't go in the chamber all the way to the bbl hood.
Check 'em first! I loaded (I say to my chagrin) a 3 lb coffee can full then found they were .030 too long. I fixed 'em, but not without handling every one of them again. :Fire:

[303Guy]

Do a search on 44man's posts and you will discover it's a good idea to listen to what he says!:Fire:

Welcome aboard! This has to be the greatest sight available to us bar none!:-D

[cricco]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm going to try shooting as cast with these molds. I'll buy the sizer eventually, but I think I can get started with what I have.

[Wayne Smith]

As you get into this you will discover that a half decent micrometer and knowing how to use it are very useful additions. Slugging your barrels will tell you your grove diameter, and you ideally want a boolit .002" in diameter larger than that. That's ideal.

As far as safety goes, if you can chamber it you can shoot it with an appropriate load. As has been said here many times, your barrel is the final sizer anyway. Lead is not gonna blow up any gun. An overload, creating overpressure, surely will. In the cases you are using a boolit that is seated too deep or is oversize or both can create that overpressure, especially if you are flirting with hot loads. So play it safe until you are sure of what you are doing.

Once you have and have mastered a micrometer you can start on the more precision end of this adventure. You can measure your groove and size your boolits .002" over and see if you get a change in accuracy or leading. Now that you have known quantities you can begin to experiment seriously, allowing Dr. Gun and Dr. Mold teach you what is best for Dr. Gun. This is when we leave the guesstimation and move into known quantities.

Such information will also allow you to ask more precise questions and receive more precise answers.