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View Full Version : Hollow Pointing - A Universal Option



JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 10:08 PM
Some of you may remember my escapades with hollow pointing boolits on a lathe. That little adventure was documented here - http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=29432

While that method worked out fine for me, not every home brew boolit caster has a lathe kicking around out in the garage, so there is a limited number of people who could take advantage of the info that I posted there. I was bored off my butt, sitting on a plane the other day & I got to thinking about that. What I came up with is pictured below.

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 10:12 PM
This thing needs to have a real drill bushing added to it & the C-clamp needs to be replaced by something faster & easier to use, like a DeStako clamp, but other than that, this thing is a working unit.

It's easy to change over to different calibers & different size holes. Changing the 2 small blocks on the left side of the aluminum pillar changes the caliber. Changing the top arm & drill bit changes the hole size.

I'm thinking about building these things to sell. What does everybody think about that? Should I go for it?

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Another view

dragonrider
12-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Caliber specific??

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 11:03 PM
Caliber specific??

Changing the two small pinch blocks changes the caliber. 1 Allen screw holds the longer one in place. The shorter one is only held by the clamp.

southpaw
12-20-2009, 11:09 PM
Any idea on what the price would be?

Jerry Jr.

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 11:18 PM
This shows the longer of the two blocks & how it supports the boolit that is being drilled. Everything is adjustable & interchangeable. I designed it to be a universal system.

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Any idea on what the price would be?

Jerry Jr.

Right now, I'm thinking about selling it al-a-carte. That way, each person could put together just the parts that they need & not buy anything that they don't want.

Just off the top of my head, I was thinking -
Main Pillar - $15
Base Plate with screws - $5
Top arm with drill bushing, drill bit, screws & drill collar - $15
Caliber specific clamp blocks - $15

Basically, that would be $50 to get a full rig & then $15 to add another caliber & $15 to add another cavity diameter.

Those are just rough numbers. I need to see how long it actually takes me to make each part & I need to see what the drill bushings will cost me. If I think that I can get 50 people to buy these things, then I can tool up to make them more efficiently & the prices will be lower than if I need to make each part as a 1-off. The clamp blocks were actually the biggest pain in the butt to make, I may redesign them a little bit.

madcaster
12-20-2009, 11:28 PM
Good thinking Jim!:cbpour:

MT Gianni
12-20-2009, 11:41 PM
Is the top arm hex to fit in a cordless tool or straight to be chucked each time? I like it.

JIMinPHX
12-20-2009, 11:53 PM
Is the top arm hex to fit in a cordless tool or straight to be chucked each time? I like it.

That particular drill bit in the picture is a standard 135-degree split-point screw-machine bit that I had handy. I can set this gizmo up with a hex shank bit if you want.

I had made the base so that it would be easy to use this rig in a drill press, but I did my trial tests with a cordless drill. You could probably even turn the bit by hand with a pin vice.

You pick the bit, I'll get a bushing to fit it & make it work. I can't imagine that there would be much of a price difference, if any, for a different style bit.

thx997303
12-21-2009, 03:29 PM
Very interesting Jim.

Let me know when you have figured a price.

geargnasher
12-21-2009, 03:51 PM
I likes it, Jim!

I've been hollow-pointing finished ammo in a drill press for years using Lee base holders (for the trimmers) to hold and spin the cartridge against a fixed, custom-ground bit. In some calibers I rigged a neck guide, but still have issues with runout.

Your little invention seems to get around that problem.

I think you should go for it, I may well buy one from you.

Gear

44wcf
12-21-2009, 04:35 PM
I would be interested in one.

dragonrider
12-21-2009, 05:47 PM
Very clever Jim. I'll bet that would sell. Good luck with it.

jdgabbard
12-21-2009, 08:36 PM
I would be very interested in one. A poor man's cramer!

303Guy
12-21-2009, 08:55 PM
Great thinking!:Fire:

Do you have a milling machine then?

chaos
12-21-2009, 09:01 PM
I'd like one if you do this.

JIMinPHX
12-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Well,
Version #2 is now up & running. It’s pretty much the same thing, but I’ve made a few refinements. The drill bit now sits in a tool steel guide bushing. The C-clamp has been replaced by an Allen screw & Allen wrench. Eventually, that Allen screw will be replaced by a hand knob, but I just haven’t gotten to that yet.

I got a little bit of a sticker shock today when I went & looked up drill bushings. The less expensive, headless press fit type started at around $8 for select standard sizes & the prices went up from there. You could spend over $100 on a fancy interchangeable bushing with sleeve. I didn’t really think that was in the budget for this project, so I punted. I made a bushing out of some W-1 tool steel that I had laying around. So far, it seems OK. I’ll have to see how it holds up over time. If I need to, I can always press it out & press in a real drill bushing later.

In this picture, I’m using a simple handle to turn the drill bit. It works, but I would expect that most people would opt for a cordless or a drill press.

Anyway, here it is folks. Any & all comments are appreciated. I hope to have the final design worked out to my satisfaction within the next few days.

sagacious
12-21-2009, 11:38 PM
Looks good. A crank handle, as on a manual case trimmer, would be a rapid and effective way to turn the drill bit.

JIMinPHX
12-22-2009, 01:52 AM
Do you have a milling machine then?

It would be a pretty good trick to make one of these without a mill. I'm not that good of a magician.

looseprojectile
12-22-2009, 02:25 AM
If you could hinge the movable half of the boolit clamp at the bottom [a saw slot a link and a couple of screws] and have a handle on it in the place of the allen wrench it could eliminate a lot of screwing. Just put the boolit in and lift the handle hold pressure and drill the boolit and lower the handle and do it again.
Air to clear the chips would be good too. Like air on a scroll saw. Maybe a stiff bristle brush. Ya I know, now we are getting into the more expensive spread. When I make a shop aid or a specialised tool I try to make it so that it can not be improved upon.
Looks like it will work good, good idea. I am thinking in terms of the C&H canelluring tool type of operation.

Life is good

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 01:48 AM
Well, I made a few small changes & now I have what I think I am going to call the first actual production version of this thing. It will accept boolits up to 1-5/8" long. It still has interchangeable drill bushings. It still has interchangeable boolit clamps & it now has an adjustable position top arm, so that you can dial in the exact center of the boolit that you are working with.

I made that change to the top arm for a few reasons. First, a fixed position arm would not allow you to center up for a boolit that is a few thousandths over or under the nominal diameter. Second, I was having trouble holding all the dimensions close enough to get the eccentricity as good as I would have liked. About 0.005" was the best that I did on a fixed arm. I wasn't sure that everybody would be happy with that.

I also changed the clamp gizmo around a little bit. The inner clamp still rides in a slot & still gets located with an Allen screw, but the top clamp now screws into the inner clamp with a thumb screw. I think that it's fairly quick & easy to operate. It seems to hold well enough.

This particular clamp set is sized for .30 cal boolits. By tomorrow, I should have tooling to also make clamps for 38, 44 & 45 caliber clamps.

I am currently using drill bushings that I made myself out of O-1 tool steel. I did that for two reasons. First, I was trying to keep the cost down. Second, the O-1 is actually soft enough that if you want to, you can drill it out to a different size with a good quality drill bit. That way, you don't need to wait around for me to make you a new bushing if you want to start making larger hollow points. You can just drill out a bushing that you already have. If you use this fixture in a drill press, then the O-1 should last a long time. If you try to do this with a hand drill, then the O-1 will wallow out before long & you should probably opt for a genuine hardened bushing. The hardened bushings will beat up the drills, rather than let themselves wear down easily.

I figure that I'll include 2 or 3 of the O-1 bushings with a complete fixture. I can supply genuine hardened commercial drill bushings if you want, but I just found out that the price in my catalog was old & my current cost is actually around $10.50 + shipping on a 5/32" bushing. I'd mark that up around 20% if I was going to stock & resell them. You can order them direct from places like McMaster or MSC if you want to & cut out the middle man. I'll be happy to give out the spec's. Also, the commercial drill bushings change OD as the ID changed more than a little bit. My bushing is a single OD for any ID up to 1/4 or maybe a little more if I push it. If you start using bushings with different ODs, then I'll either need to make some adapter bushings or a different top arm. Either can be done.

It turns out that it took me longer to make this thing than I had expected. I'm going to make up some fixtures to speed things along, but I'm probably going to have to charge more than the $50 I was planning on for a complete fixture. I should have the pricing worked out by tomorrow. I'll time myself again after I get the new jigs & fixtures in place.

Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, so here's my thousand words worth...

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 01:55 AM
This shows the inside of the clamp a little better. (Those are lead chips, by the way).

I'll get this up in the swappin & sellin section of the board as soon as it's ready to sell. Hopefully that will be tomorrow. If interest in this thing is strong enough, I may go whole hog & get set up as a vendor sponsor. We'll see how it goes.:-)

Buckshot
12-31-2009, 04:10 AM
...........Jim, why not use W-1 and harden it for the drill guide? It'd sure last longer then unhardened O-1 or W-1. Left untempered it'd be dang near as hard as a diamond :-) I suspect the list of best HPing drill bit sizes wouldn't be more then 6-7 so getting a chucking reamer a thou over the bit size wouldn't be a huge cash outlay. Drill it to ream and ream for a thou over the desired bit size then harden it without drawing. A drill bit isn't much for side cutting so the bushing life should be quite long. An idea anyway?

.............Buckshot

kelbro
12-31-2009, 09:54 AM
Very nice setup. It looks like you could machine the piece that holds the bullet on both ends for two different calibers. Just rotate it 180° and tighten it up to go from .44 to .38

dragonrider
12-31-2009, 11:47 AM
Lay it down horizontaly and put a crank handle on it.

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 11:51 AM
...........Jim, why not use W-1 and harden it for the drill guide? It'd sure last longer then unhardened O-1 or W-1. Left untempered it'd be dang near as hard as a diamond :-) I suspect the list of best HPing drill bit sizes wouldn't be more then 6-7 so getting a chucking reamer a thou over the bit size wouldn't be a huge cash outlay. Drill it to ream and ream for a thou over the desired bit size then harden it without drawing. A drill bit isn't much for side cutting so the bushing life should be quite long. An idea anyway?

.............Buckshot

I don't have a hardening furnace here & I don't have any experience with flame hardening. If I bring my little muffle furnace out here from back east, where it's in storage, then I will probably start to do that.

The only reason that I'm using O-1 rather than W-1 is because my local supplier stocks O-1 on the shelf. a 3 foot length is only about $4 more than I would pay for W-1, so it's no big deal. That's a difference of about $0.05 per bushing.

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 12:00 PM
Very nice setup. It looks like you could machine the piece that holds the bullet on both ends for two different calibers. Just rotate it 180° and tighten it up to go from .44 to .38

There are a few reasons why that would be difficult. The biggest issue is that I mill a clearance slot between the two clamp halves, except for a small area at the bottom that acts as a pivot point. If I do a double end clamp, then I would have to come up with a different way to do the pivot point. i would also need to make the clamp longer & that would cut down on available boolit length capacity, unless I also make the center post longer. Thanks for the suggestion though. I am trying to think of ways to make this more cost effective. That was a good idea.

kelbro
12-31-2009, 12:39 PM
No problem. I didn't see how the bullets were held. The pic above helps me to visualize it.

One tool that we use to clamp multi-diameter pieces utilizes a small v-block on one side. Keeps from having to build two cavities for each diameter piece. The way that your tool is designed, the bit would have to be slid in and out to allow for the center being moved. Wouldn't be too hard for the user to notch some references in the top.

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 01:14 PM
One tool that we use to clamp multi-diameter pieces utilizes a small v-block on one side. Keeps from having to build two cavities for each diameter piece.


I tried a V-block & a slotted top arm. Unfortunately, when I clamped the boolit tight enough to prevent it from spinning under drill torque, the boolit got two flat spots pressed into it.

The rig above has gripping diameters that are a few thousandths over the nominal boolit diameter. This allows me to get a good grip on a raw boolit without deforming it.

jbunny
12-31-2009, 02:05 PM
i use the w1 drill rod for my chambering reamers and other bushings that require
heat treating. to keep the reamers straight ,i chuck them in the drill press and
turn them at slow speed while u heat it up to dull black red, and then shove a can of water up to the reamer. for bushings, hold the bushing with a j hook wire.
jb

BOOM BOOM
12-31-2009, 11:38 PM
HI,
Think Forester hollow pointer.

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 11:43 PM
HI,
Think Forester hollow pointer.

I haven't seen one of them. Can you direct me to a picture?

JIMinPHX
12-31-2009, 11:52 PM
I got to working up the numbers today after I made a few of these things using more efficient jigs & fixtures. I still could not get the machine time (& therefore the selling price) down as far as I wanted to, so I went back to the drawing board. I came up with something quite a bit different. It's a lot more Spartan & not as quick to load & unload, but it falls into the price range where I wanted it to be.

This new design is caliber specific. It isn't going to fit under a drill press very well. It probably isn't going to be as durable. The concentrically can't be adjusted by the user. The only interchangeable part is the drill bushing. The only parts that are the same between this new econo-rig & the original design is the thumb screw & the spacer that goes under it. The good news is, I can let this new econo-rig go for $25 complete. Here's a first look at it. Let me know what you think.

outdoorfan
01-01-2010, 12:02 AM
The concentrically can't be adjusted by the user. you think.

So it's not self-centering, say if I was running a .454 boolit vs a .452?

JIMinPHX
01-01-2010, 02:26 AM
So it's not self-centering, say if I was running a .454 boolit vs a .452?

It should be able to take up that little bit without being too far off. When the thumb screw pinches the slot closed behind the boolit, it should sort of center up a little bit. You're not going to be able to dial it in as exactly as you can on the bigger universal rig, but it should be pretty close. I'm planning on offering both versions. One is going to offer better functionality & cost more. The other will be the economy version that offers less & costs less.

MT Gianni
01-01-2010, 05:38 PM
It looks good Jim and price wise should be able to do the duty for the calibers we don't need to have many of HP's in stock. How would price compare between a caliber conversion kit and the smaller unit?

JIMinPHX
01-01-2010, 07:27 PM
How would price compare between a caliber conversion kit and the smaller unit?

That's the kicker. There isn't much spread between the two right now. I need to figure out a better way to make the clamps, so I get the price down. If I had my CNC mill up & running, it would be no problem. A simple pocketing routine would get me what I want pretty quickly. Unfortunately, that machine is in storage with two blown servo drives, so I'm making these things by hand on a Bridgeport. I'm going to take one more crack at sharpening the pencil, then I'm going to post a price sheet later tonight.

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 02:55 AM
Well, I finally did it. I posted these things for sale on the Swappin & Sellin section of the board. You can find that thread here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=764672#post764672

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 03:14 AM
I'm looking around my shop now for other useful little gizmos that I've made that I might be able to sell. I have this one little thing I made that lets me use Lyman style sizing dies like you would use a Lee push-through sizer. You just put the lyman die in the threaded collar, put the piston in the holder with the 3 set screws, then put the whole assembly in any single stage press & use it as a push through.

Would there be any interest in these things if I started making more of them?

.

xr650
01-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Jim,
Look like you are on to some good ideas here.
Have you thought of using your ghetto collett in your fixture. Caliber changes would be considerably cheaper.
Changing the boolits out would require opening the fixture wider.
Just a thought.

badgeredd
01-02-2010, 11:42 AM
Pretty neat ideas there Jim. Obviously some thinking went into your jigs and I, for one, appreciate the process. Good job.

Edd

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 12:22 PM
Have you thought of using your ghetto collett in your fixture. Caliber changes would be considerably cheaper.


I did think of that, but so far I haven't been able to get enough crushing force with the thumb screw to get the collet to grip well enough. I may just need to think about that some more. Something like a longer leverage arm may be the answer to going in that direction. Thanks for the suggestion.

xr650
01-02-2010, 06:03 PM
I believe you said you slit the collett 3/4 thru. Do you think slitting the other side 1/8 thru might give you a better flex point?

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 08:03 PM
It might

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Actually, I think that I have a better idea now. I can use an adjustment screw from underneath to control the depth & avoid needing to make the slot in the clamp gizmo. That would save a lot of machine time. Let me work on this some more. I'll try to work a modified collet into the design. This is promising.

Charlie Sometimes
01-02-2010, 08:47 PM
I'm looking around my shop now for other useful little gizmos that I've made that I might be able to sell. I have this one little thing I made that lets me use Lyman style sizing dies like you would use a Lee push-through sizer. You just put the lyman die in the threaded collar, put the piston in the holder with the 3 set screws, then put the whole assembly in any single stage press & use it as a push through.

Would there be any interest in these things if I started making more of them?

Seems like yours would be harder to build and take more time than making the Lee push-thru style with ram punch.
It would be easier to ream out old sizer dies to get the bigest part of the work done and then turn a punch to fit in the top of the ram. I'd have to say "No, I wouldn't buy it."
Sorry.

JIMinPHX
01-02-2010, 10:53 PM
Seems like yours would be harder to build and take more time than making the Lee push-thru style with ram punch.


It is. But for a guy that already has a pile of Lyman dies kicking around for his lubrisizer, it gives him the ability to use any one of them as a push through anytime that he wants to.

jbunny
01-03-2010, 12:17 AM
Jim; on ur boolit hollow pointer, i have some food for thought. in this pic, this is a 5/8
coupling nut that fits onto a 5 inch angle grinder. a JIC hydralic fitting that i bored
out to 1/4 in and the cap to plug the fitting i bored to 1/4 in as well. i then sloted
the fitting makeing it a collet type chuck. this little adapter i used for little grinding
stones and the small scouring pads sanders on my 5 inch grinder. now back to
the hollowpointer, if u were to make something like this and mount it on a small
1700 RPM MOTOR so the bullet turns. the collet nut could be a big disc for safety
reasons. the 1/6 or 1/4 HP motors are cheap at surplus centers. IMHO with the
boolit turning the alignment of the drill bit is not so critical. if the drill is of a bit ,
it will make hole bigger and the boolit will stay ballanced. if u used a washing machine
solinoid and a douple pole switch, with the switch in the off position for the motor,
the solinoid would be energised and that would be a brake for the motor. when
u throw switch on for the motor the brake solinoid would be released. like i said food for thought.
jb

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/MOUICH/grinderadapter.jpg

Rockydog
01-03-2010, 02:49 AM
Jim, On your economy model why not put an inverted cone on the bottom of the drill bushing? Pushing the bullet up into the cone before clamping would automatically center it. You could do the same on your larger unit too by having a cam lever that raises the bullet clamp up and down. If the clamp held the bullet but had just enough slack on the column to move the entire clamp up and down the inverted cone would center the bullet automatically. Hint, Think about drilling down through the center of a bullet seater. Rockydog

JIMinPHX
01-03-2010, 04:07 AM
Jim, On your economy model why not put an inverted cone on the bottom of the drill bushing? Pushing the bullet up into the cone before clamping would automatically center it.

If I was making this thing for a specific type of boolit, I would do just that. Being as I am making this to work with a wide variety of boolit designs, I figured that I would locate on the one surface that would always be pretty much the same, the body diameter. I do see the advantage to what you are suggesting. If you would like to buy one of the fixtures, I would be happy to put a female cone on the bottom of a bushing for you. Just let me know what dimensions you would like.

JIMinPHX
01-03-2010, 04:13 AM
Jim; on ur boolit hollow pointer, i have some food for thought. in this pic, ...
... if u were to make something like this and mount it on a small
1700 RPM MOTOR so the bullet turns. ...

I agree that spinning the boolit is the better way to go, as opposed to spinning the drill bit. That's how I hollow pointed on my lathe. I think that works best. Unfortunately, I haven't thought of a way to do that within the price range that I want to keep this tool at. I'm trying to keep this thing affordable for the average Joe & still able to make a usable boolit. Your idea has merit. I just haven't come up with a good enough rig to take advantage of that concept yet.

crabo
01-03-2010, 08:43 PM
Jim, how long does it take to hollowpoint 50 bullets using your universal fixture and a drill press.

Inquiring minds want to know!

JIMinPHX
01-03-2010, 10:07 PM
Jim, how long does it take to hollowpoint 50 bullets using your universal fixture and a drill press.

Inquiring minds want to know!

About as long as it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.:mrgreen:


Seriously though, I don't know. I'll go poke holes in 50 of them get right back to you.

JIMinPHX
01-03-2010, 10:20 PM
I got lazy. I just did 10. The stop watch said 4:28 when I was done. I guess that means you can plan on about 25 minutes to do 50.

Buckshot
01-04-2010, 03:57 AM
...........Jim, I've made similar 'insert' type adaptors to use exisiting sizer dies. This one is an adaptor for a Star die:

http://www.fototime.com/E9FED78C79EC8F8/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9F6F58D495BD56A/standard.jpg

LEFT The knurled part is the top, and it's threaded 1-1/4 - 12. RIGHT About midway down you can see a rubber "O" ring, which retains the die in the insert.

http://www.fototime.com/F1C3B7DF99D5B3A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/5D82C97D69260C6/standard.jpg

LEFT The adaptor with the Star die in place. RIGHT This is the bottom and what the boolit sees. I just supply a Lee type pushrod that is ram mounted and long enough to push the slug clear of the die.

For a Lyman/RCBS lube-size die you could actually use a piece of 7/8-14 allthread as the adaptor (be kind of thin) but it would work, and then again supply a Lee type ram mounted pushrod. Making one of the pushrods would have making that ejector pin holder beat all to heck, especially since the ejector pins are a shade shorter then the die body and would leave a bit of the boolit in the die. I doubt that would really be an issue however, but who knows?

As for retaining the die body in the adaptor I'd imagine a couple dabs of lube on the die body would easily keep it from sliding out. All the effort pushes up after all. I prefer to make them using the larger 1-1/4 - 12 adaptor and there's pleanty of meat for an "O" ring as with the Star die, which is .750" OD. Body OD is .700" for the Lyman-RCBS dies except the upper end which is .720", and you could possibly us it's existing "O" ring for retention?

................Buckshot

JIMinPHX
01-04-2010, 04:31 AM
Very nice workmanship there Buckshot (as usual). I haven't messed with Star sizers yet, so I know nothing about them, but your gizmo looks quite useful.

I just had an unpleasant realization last night when I was trying to use the adapter that I made. While it had worked well with any Lyman die that I put in it, a RCBS die pushed right through it. I made the bore .705". Apparently, the RCBS die has a rim that is smaller than that.

I had originally expected that the O-ring would hold the die in the adapter, but mine kept pushing out, so I added a set screw. I'll need to use one with a brass tip to keep from damaging the die body.

I had thought about making a set of push through rams instead of the ram adapter that I showed in the picture. The only problem with that would be that I would need a selection of sizes to cover the range of die sizes that might be used. I could probably get away with a set of 4 or 5, but that's 4 or 5 pieces to make instead of just 1. In an effort to keep costs down, I was trying to minimize things. I must say though, I do prefer to use a dedicated ram. I may reconsider that.

Thanks for all the input.

Jim

Buckshot
01-05-2010, 01:51 AM
I had originally expected that the O-ring would hold the die in the adapter, but mine kept pushing out, so I added a set screw. I'll need to use one with a brass tip to keep from damaging the die body.

I had thought about making a set of push through rams instead of the ram adapter that I showed in the picture. The only problem with that would be that I would need a selection of sizes to cover the range of die sizes that might be used. Thanks for all the input.

Jim

..........Jim the O ring simply retains the die in the adaptor from falling out the bottom. Not to keep it from being pushed UP through the adaptor. The body of the Lyman-RCBS die is ~.700" givertake a thou. Up around the top where their O ring goes they're .720". This would, or course be on the bottom as the die would be upside down in the adaptor. I am assuming the RCBS dies are similar as they are swappable with the Lyman's so it seems odd it would push straight up through the adaptor, unless the bore was too large.

The adaptor does NOT have to be bored to .700" all the way through. Drill the adaptor 5/8" (.625") and then finish bore to .700" but 0.100" short. This would leave a ring at the top for the die to stop against. It ain't gonna push out even if it's O ring end isn't the .720" it should be.

..............Buckshot

Daddyfixit
01-05-2010, 02:41 AM
Great idea, I would think it would sell very well!

JIMinPHX
01-05-2010, 02:18 PM
...The body of the Lyman-RCBS die is ~.700" givertake a thou. Up around the top where their O ring goes they're .720". This would, or course be on the bottom as the die would be upside down in the adaptor. I am assuming the RCBS dies are similar as they are swappable with the Lyman's so it seems odd it would push straight up through the adaptor, unless the bore was too large.

The adaptor does NOT have to be bored to .700" all the way through. Drill the adaptor 5/8" (.625") and then finish bore to .700" but 0.100" short. This would leave a ring at the top for the die to stop against. It ain't gonna push out even if it's O ring end isn't the .720" it should be...

I just measured all the size dies that I have. The bodies on the Lymans all come up .701-.702". The Lyman rims all come up .715-.720". the one RCBS die that I have comes up .701" on the body & .700" at the rim. If I'm going to make these adapters for universal use, then it looks like I will need to put a counterbore in the part like you said.

Just out of curiosity, If you happen to have a RCBS die laying around, would you please measure the rim for me & let me know what diameter it is? I'd like to find out if that is a standard RCBS diameter, or if the third hand die that I have is just a weird one.

Thanks,
Jim

mecoastie
01-06-2010, 09:18 AM
I'm looking around my shop now for other useful little gizmos that I've made that I might be able to sell. I have this one little thing I made that lets me use Lyman style sizing dies like you would use a Lee push-through sizer. You just put the lyman die in the threaded collar, put the piston in the holder with the 3 set screws, then put the whole assembly in any single stage press & use it as a push through.

Would there be any interest in these things if I started making more of them?

.

I would be very interested in one of these if you could provide a piston that just slides into the shellholder slot like the Lees.

JIMinPHX
01-06-2010, 11:08 AM
I would be very interested in one of these if you could provide a piston that just slides into the shellholder slot like the Lees.

Let me know what diameters of pistons you would want & I'll get you a price. I should be able to make the parts this weekend.

Buckshot
01-07-2010, 03:35 AM
I just measured all the size dies that I have. The bodies on the Lymans all come up .701-.702". The Lyman rims all come up .715-.720". the one RCBS die that I have comes up .701" on the body & .700" at the rim. If I'm going to make these adapters for universal use, then it looks like I will need to put a counterbore in the part like you said.

Just out of curiosity, If you happen to have a RCBS die laying around, would you please measure the rim for me & let me know what diameter it is? I'd like to find out if that is a standard RCBS diameter, or if the third hand die that I have is just a weird one.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim, sorry no RCBS lube-size dies on hand. However, since you CAN use a Lyman in the RCBS Luba-a-matic the die retaining nut would have to accept the .720" head of the Lyman. Seems that if the RCBS dies weren't also normally .720" lube might leak past. Maybe not?

.............Buckshot

Rat-Man
01-07-2010, 09:42 AM
The one RCBS die, that I recently had to buy because everyone was out of Lyman dies, measures .720 below and above the o-ring.

I could be that the design has changed over the years, it sure seem to happen a lot with reloading stuff.

JIMinPHX
01-07-2010, 11:03 AM
My RCBS die looks pretty old.

Wayne Smith
01-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Jim, have you thought about making a 4, 6, or 8 sided punch to add to the hallowpointer to alter the shape of the hollowpoint? Would this work or would it be way more work than it's worth?

kelbro
01-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Jim, have you thought about making a 4, 6, or 8 sided punch to add to the hallowpointer to alter the shape of the hollowpoint? Would this work or would it be way more work than it's worth?

Hmmmmmm, torx bit??

Wayne Smith
01-08-2010, 08:16 PM
Haven't seen one that would widen the mouth of the HP with edges and bottom out in a taper to the bottom of the HP.

JIMinPHX
01-09-2010, 01:08 AM
Jim, have you thought about making a 4, 6, or 8 sided punch to add to the hallowpointer to alter the shape of the hollowpoint? Would this work or would it be way more work than it's worth?

I'm not sure that I understand what you are asking. Any shape drill bit can be ground to give you a custom shaped cavity. I don't do custom tool grinding, but there are plenty of guys out there that do.

If you want to use my rig as a punch block, then it's probably going to need some reinforcement. I built it heck for strong as a drill jig, but it's rather dainty by punch press standards.

Wayne Smith
01-09-2010, 03:13 PM
I'm thinking it wouldn't take much of a punch to put edges to an existing hole drilled in the boolit. I'm betting a cut nail, cut off to the right level, may do it. Probably just a tap of a rawhide hammer? Probably wouldn't fit in your bushing, though.

I wasn't thinking of punching the hole, just putting edges on one drilled.

JIMinPHX
01-09-2010, 04:17 PM
You might get away with that trick if you are going to be gentle about it. You could have two different size bushings, one for drilling & one for you second tool. The bushings change out in about 10 seconds with an Allen wrench. They are just retained by a set screw that bites down on a flat that I mill on the side of the bushing.