Is paint thinner and mineral spirits the same thing?

[Recluse]

I just got a PM asking me this in regards to cutting LLA. Someone told me many eons ago that the two were similar, but not the same.

Any chemists with a definitive answer?

Thanks.

:coffee:

[Ctkelly]

Depends on what the store is selling as "paint thinner". Mineral spirits is a petro based product typically used for thinning oil based paints. Naphtha, Mineral Spirits, Acetone, Xylene, Turpentine, Toulene and MEK are all "paint thinners".

[lwknight]

Definately, not all paint thinner is mineral spirits. Mineral Spirits can be used for thinner on some paints.
Clear as mud.
There are so many knds of paint thinners that it will make your head swim. They are everything from oil base ( similar to desiel or naptha) to alcohol. There ar a lot of alcohols. Eg: Methyl-Ethyl -Keytome, Toloul, Toluline, Methyl Isobutal-Keytone, bla bla

I would guess, mineral spirits to be in the petrolium group. They are all aromatic hydrocarbons.
Everything I know in a few words.

[1874Sharps]

Recluse,

Both are mixtures of hydrocarbons of similar volatility from fractional distilation. There are some differences, to be sure, but for the purposes of thinning lube, I would think that either paint thinner or mineral spirits would serve fine. I like the odorless stuff myself, but that is because I do not like the smell of paint thinner. Of course all safety rules, ventilation, skin exposure, etc. apply.

[whisler]

What is sold in most hardware/paint stores labeled as "paint thinner" is indeed nothing but mineral spirits. Mineral spirits is considered an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but has a slight amount of aromatic hydrocarbon content. Odorless Mineral Spirits is mineral spirits with the aromatic hydrocarbons (the smelly stuff) removed, which reduces its solvency power somewhat. VM&P naphtha is a faster evaporating relative of mineral spirits and used for similar puposes. Other solvents, such as MEK, lacquer thinner, acetone, etc are indeed used to thin some types of paint but are labeled with their chemical name or specific use (lacquer thinner, for example) to differentiate them from mineral spirits. Either standard paint thinner/mineral spirits or the odorless variety will thin LLA quite well. I would avoid the other solvents for this purpose as they are more flammable/volatile and are of no advantage.
Sorry to be long winded but I finally found something I could contibute for all I have learned on this site. I was a paint chemist for almost 40 years and a Solvent Tech service chemist for 2 of those. Hope this helps rather than confused

[sagacious]

What is sold in most hardware/paint stores labeled as "paint thinner" is indeed nothing but mineral spirits. Mineral spirits is considered an aliphatic hydrocarbon, but has a slight amount of aromatic hydrocarbon content. Odorless Mineral Spirits is mineral spirits with the aromatic hydrocarbons (the smelly stuff) removed, which reduces its solvency power somewhat. VM&P naphtha is a faster evaporating relative of mineral spirits and used for similar puposes. Other solvents, such as MEK, lacquer thinner, acetone, etc are indeed used to thin some types of paint but are labeled with their chemical name or specific use (lacquer thinner, for example) to differentiate them from mineral spirits. Either standard paint thinner/mineral spirits or the odorless variety will thin LLA quite well. I would avoid the other solvents for this purpose as they are more flammable/volatile and are of no advantage.
Sorry to be long winded but I finally found something I could contibute for all I have learned on this site. I was a paint chemist for almost 40 years and a Solvent Tech service chemist for 2 of those. Hope this helps rather than confused

Helped me. Thanks.

[docone31]

Wow, lots of goodies here.
Ok, now that we got that out of the way,
Is mineral spirits paint thinner, or are paint thinners mineral spirits?
Inquireing minds want to know.

[montana_charlie]

Wow, lots of goodies here.
Ok, now that we got that out of the way,
Is mineral spirits paint thinner, or are paint thinners mineral spirits?
Inquireing minds want to know.
I thought it was pretty clearly stated that mineral spirits is a paint thinner...one of many paint thinners.
Naphtha, Acetone, Xylene, Turpentine, Toulene and MEK are some of the others.
CM

[knifemaker]

Our local hardware store sells paint thinner that is labeled in smaller print as being 100% mineral spirits on the label. If you need mineral spirits, just check the paint thinner labels and you should find some listed as 100% mineral spirits.
Another use for mineral spirits, is for general firearms cleaning. Very good for semi auto firearms to remove any carbon buildup on the operating parts. I use a plastic spray bottle to spay it on my semi auto pistols and watch the black crud flow off the slide and frame. Use a toothbrush for stubborn areas give second coat of spray and blow off with a air hose nozzle.
Remove grips prior to spraying. I learned this use of mineral spirits at the Beretta Armours course i took about 12 years ago. At that time Beretta was advising not to use Hoppe's #9 to clean their firearms if Winchester ball powder was being used in the ammo for law enforcement departments. They reccommended mineral spirits be used instead of the Hoppe's #9 to prevent a carbon buildup in the firing pin chamber that led to numerous misfires in the Beretta firearms being used by a North Eastern state police agency.

[lwknight]

Plus 1 on Mineral spirits as a gun cleaner. Mix some baby oil with it and it will clean even better and smell a lot better too.

[dromia]

Water is also a paint thinner for emulsions and distemper paints but water isn't the same as mineral spirits.

[Russel Nash]

somebody asked:


Is all paint thinner mineral spirits.. Is all mineral spirits paint thinner?

Let me go back to my geometry days...

all squares are rectangles, but

not all rectangles are squares

all circles are ellipses, but

not all ellipses are circles

If the guy is looking to thin LLA, then I would recommend get a low odor mineral spirits.

[Bret4207]

Water is also a paint thinner for emulsions and distemper paints but water isn't the same as mineral spirits.

Very true, plus I bought 2 gallons of water based "paint thinner" that the label claimed worked on oil based paints. Good thing it was cheap 'cuz it didn't work hardly at all.

[Boondocker]

You want to stay clear of any automotive reducers and thinners also. Clean good but very volatile. Mineral spirits is good stuff for gun cleaning, it is part of ED's Red. I also use it in my parts washer, I can change it out with 6 gallons on sale mineral spirits for 20$ or 65$ for 5 gallons parts washer that almost cleans as good as mineral spirits. Boon:bigsmyl2:

[Shiloh]

Automotive solvents and thinners are a whole different beast.

Shiloh

[Bill*]

Many moons ago, I was hired to paint the interior of a garage. The owner gave me two different gallons (grey and light grey) and told me to mix them for an intermediate shade. I mixed (with a paddle and an electric drill) for what seemed like hours. After finishing the job (which came out fine) I went to throw the cans away and realized one was oil paint and one was latex :shock: I realize this has no bearing at all to anything in this thread, but Brets post reminded me and I've had too much coffee .(If I wasn't typing this I'd be talking Jana's ear off) :bigsmyl2:

[Echo]

Wow, lots of goodies here.
Ok, now that we got that out of the way,
Is mineral spirits paint thinner, or are paint thinners mineral spirits?
Inquireing minds want to know.

Yes. I say again - Yes.

(Had to make the message long enough to be accepted by the Automated Board Message Length Police)

[longbow]

What whisler said.

What is commonly call paint thinner sold in hardware stores is for thinning oil base house paints and also for general degreasing and cleaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_spirits

Varsol is also used for the same purpose:

http://www.daycon.com/msds/VARSOL-tech.pdf

As stated, there are lots of "paint thinners/reducers" for automotive paints, laquers, epoxys, etc. but they are all much more volatile and many may also not be compatible with the same paints. Some like acetone, laquer thinner or MEK you don't near your gun stock because they will take the finish off (at least most oil or plastic finishes). Some are also quite toxic.

Longbow

[Wayne Smith]

Last time I was at Home Depot they had Mineral Spirits and at half the price, Paint Thinner. The Paint Thinner is a white liquid, not clear. It sure does clean off sizing dies, though.

[alamogunr]

What whisler said.

What is commonly call paint thinner sold in hardware stores is for thinning oil base house paints and also for general degreasing and cleaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_spirits

Varsol is also used for the same purpose:

http://www.daycon.com/msds/VARSOL-tech.pdf

As stated, there are lots of "paint thinners/reducers" for automotive paints, laquers, epoxys, etc. but they are all much more volatile and many may also not be compatible with the same paints. Some like acetone, laquer thinner or MEK you don't near your gun stock because they will take the finish off (at least most oil or plastic finishes). Some are also quite toxic.

Longbow

Strange! My computer security program blocked entry to the site on Varsol. Indicated it was "toxic".

John
W.TN

[Deliverator]

Paint thinner is generally a mixture of different types of chemicals usually including some mineral spirits. Paint thinner is the "use it for everything" bottle, but if you have something specific you want to take off you get a specific chemical for that, or if you want to take something specific off and not damage the surrounding areas you should find out what it is and find what works on it and not on what is around it.

If you just read the bottle on a bottle of "paint thinner" most of them include acetone and all the other stuff thats on the shelf above it at your local home depot.

[whisler]

I worked for Home Depot for the last 3 years in the paint department. The stuff labeled Standard Paint Thinner is Mineral Spirits and is intended to thin Oil/alkyd base paint as sold for regular home use. The stuff labeled Lacquer Thinner is a blend of solvents intended for "thinning lacquer" which requires stronger solvents. If the label says anything but Mineral Spirits it is not standard paint thinner, don't use it for LLA. The new white liquid product in the plastic jug, sold as paint thinner is, in my opinion, some type of water emulsion used to get around the air pollution regulations and also will not work well for LLA (or much of anything else).

[longbow]

If it is of any help, I just opened the site without any problems and cut this out:

"Varsol is a low-odor petroleum solvent used for removing oil and grease,
thinning oil-based paints, urethanes and varnishes, cleaning paint
brushes, cleaning tar and asphalt off carpets and other flooring, or
removing paste wax from wood floors."

I use it just like I use mineral spirits oil based paint thinner.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

Depends on what the store is selling as "paint thinner". Mineral spirits is a petro based product typically used for thinning oil based paints. Naphtha, Mineral Spirits, Acetone, Xylene, Turpentine, Toulene and MEK are all "paint thinners".

I have almost never seen a product labeled "Paint thinner" that was not petroleum-based mineral spirits. Acetone is Acetone or fingernail polish remover. Xylene is Xylene. Turpentine (pine-pitch spirits) is occasionally labeled paint thinner, but usually in fine print under the title "Turpentine". Naptha is naptha or lighter fluid. Toluene is toluene. MEK is almost always labeled exactly that or spelled out. Another paint thinner, or actually Shellac thinner, is denatured alcohol, again, labeled as such, as is Acrylic Enamel Reducer.

So when I say "paint thinner" I mean the variety which is 100% mineral spirits, sold as a reducer/cleaner for oil-based paints and stains. I think it is more or less (with less regarding the odorless kind as has been mentioned) a case of common versus technical terms for the same substance.

In any event, LLA/JPW can be cut with any of the above, but I recommend paint thinner as the least toxic and easiest to get.

Gear

[sniper]

Whisler, that is the most concise, clear answer to that particular question I have read yet, and I was asking the same thing on another site. Thank you.

[whisler]

Sniper: Glad I could help! As I said, just trying to contribute a little for all I have learned here. I'm still a relative new-comer to casting but I think it and this site is great.

[Karen]

Will mineral spirits and lacquer thinner kill plastic? (glock)
Spirits clean guns well?
Is denatured alcohol a paint thinner?
Can you clean guns with it. It's less toxic :)

[lwknight]

I've not known mineral spirits to harm polymers like the glock frame. I use it mixed with baby oil for a bore cleaner and powder solvent.

Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol altered to make it poison to drink,therefore bypassing liquer laws for the privilege of using alcohol industrially. I doubt that it will be a good gun cleaner.

Lacquer thinner is a harsh type of solvent and I would not want it getting onto my poly frames at all. I don't know if its alcohol or not but, I think its probably a petroleum distillate.

[whisler]

Lacquer thinner is generally a blend of ketones like Acetone or MEK, with alcohols and aromatic petroleum distillates like toluene or xylene. Not something to use on plastics or fine wood finishes.

[canyon-ghost]

A chemist may have a different view but, I worked in a oil refinery years ago. What we made was jet fuel, which is, white kerosene, a very hot version at that. When I say hot, I mean high in specific gravity. Mineral spirits has the same smell, and likely comes from the same trays in the distillation tower. I would venture to say that Mineral Spirits is a lower grade of white kerosene. Until you've had to live with that smell for a few years, you might not agree but, in practical terms, that's what that stuff is.

Ron

[cajun shooter]

Back in 1971 I was running a local paint crew in Thibodeaux, La. working on a Goverment Housing Project. As with all of the Goverment jobs there are plenty of rules. We had to hire at least 65% of the work force from the local area. The sheet rock walls received a latex finish paint which is a water-based paint that thins with water. All the wood trim was finished with a oil based paint that was the same color as the wall paint but used mineral spirits to thin. You would not believe how many gallons of paint that we lost because of this set -up. The local painters did not understand the difference and if it was the same color it was alright to mix. I tried to let them smell the oil paints so that they would learn but that failed. We had to finally lock up all the paint and do all the mixing of paint ourselves. They would use the mineral spirits to try and clean the brushes from the latex paint and vise versa. If it had not been so expensive it would have been very funny. I'm sure that this still happens today with novice painters. After reading the other story about the mixing of the paints I had to post this. It does stray from the main post.

[looseprojectile]

I use and will continue to use products like lighter fluid or naptha for cleaning guns and small machinery.
I am sure that barbeque lighter fuid is mainly the same thing.
I use charcoal lighter fluid for a general solvent in my shop.
I use it for thinning LLA.
It comes in two quart plastic jugs and can be had for as little as a couple or three bucks on sale. That size is convienent.
I also use methyl ethyl ketone, lacquer thinner and acetone and some other really nasty flammible stuff for the difficult things such as epoxy before it sets up.
Be careful that you don't start a fire or asphyxiate yourself. Some of this stuff can vaporize and actually blow up. Barbeque lighter fluid is fairly safe but still flamable.
DUH. Then you can get the aerosol brake cleaners and carburator cleaners that can be deadly. Use all cleaners with with a lot of ventilation. Gasoline is made to vaporize and blow up. Use maximum caution.

Life is good

[alamogunr]

Many years ago the plant where I worked used a lot of solvents for paint operations. Toluene, xylene and MEK were the primary ones. One of the vendor's reps offered what he called charcoal lighter fluid as a freeby to a buyer. Apparently they marketed the stuff which consisted of odd amounts of various solvents of which they had an excess. I assumed at the time that if the faster solvents such as MEK were included that it was not enough to cause a problem. Since then I guess I've always thought of charcoal lighter fluid as "junk" solvent. Probably does not change anything as posted previously and since 25+ years have passed, this may not be the case anymore. The government may have stepped in.
John
W.TN

[whisler]

Lighter fluid, naphtha, mineral spirits, charcoal lighter fluid and kerosene are all aliphatic hydrocarbons, meaning they are all in the same chemical family, I have listed them in the order of increasing relative volatilty or evaporation rate, which also indicates a higher flash point as you go up the list. All will work to thin LLA, some are just faster evaporating and therefore more dangerous from a flammability standpoint. Without lots of ventilation, I would choose mineral spirits, charcoal lighter or kerosene from a safety standpoint.