Bad LP primers

[knifemaker]

I load for myself and my son for IDPA shooting. I had loaded up 20 rounds for accuracy testing. I normally use Winchester primers, but open a new brick of CCI primers that my son had purchased about one month ago. He purchased two bricks of 2000 primers that may have defective primers in the intire batch.
While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try. I have not pulled the shells apart yet to check the primers. The bad part of this, I had used the same brick to load up 600 rounds of match ammo for my son prior to loading these 20 rounds for testing in another gun.
Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. I have never in 30 years of loading incountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers. I tested the gun with another load with Winchester primers and no misfires.
I know that CCI has a rep for hard cup metal, but the primer indention was good and not caused by a light firing pin hit or a high primer. :groner:

[EMC45]

I had some problems with their SP in my 38. I was told they are harder than Win primers. I have a slicked up gun so I could believe it. I think out of the ones I had trouble with one of them would not fire at all.

[winelover]

I almost exclusively use CCI primers and never had any problems with guns with STOCK springs until I had numerous misfires in a Colt Python. Long story, short. I replaced the stock spring with another one and problem disappeared. I believe the Vee shaped springs will weaken with age faster than the coils. IMHO.

Winelover:Fire:

[richbug]

It is a gun problem, not a primer problem. CCI is harder, plain and simple.

[softpoint]

I've used cci primers for many years. I've only had trouble in revolvers with lightened springs with them. Something else to think about, now that primers are beginning to become available, some of the "speculators" that were hoarding them up will be trying to dump them while they can still sell them, and they may not have stored them in good conditions.:lovebooli

[Super38]

You with think that something that uses an explosive mixture for home use would be more consistant and thus universal from all primer/case companies. Anything to prevent accidents with the most sue happy people in the world.

That's the nice thing about this hoarding situation. People have recipes they like and now with the lack of those components, they have to adjust powders, primers and boolits.

Try them with a few different guns.

Super38

[elk hunter]

Knifemaker;

You may want to try them in another caliber and a different gun just to make sure. If they continue to give problems I would contact CCI and see what they have to say, with the lot number they call tell the manufacture date. As Softpoint pointed out they may be old and have been improperly stored, in which case I would go back to whomever I got them from.

[mike in co]

It is a gun problem, not a primer problem. CCI is harder, plain and simple.


i agree..its a user problem, not the primers.

either a seating issue( first stricke is "seating" them, second is firing. or just a gun issue with a different primer.

its what happens when you shoot real primers in an idpa match...lol

mike in co

[Hardcast416taylor]

And people wonder why I store my primers in G.I. ammo cans with a dessicant pack inside?Robert

[StarMetal]

And people wonder why I store my primers in G.I. ammo cans with a dessicant pack inside?Robert

My friends dad gave me a bunch of old CCI primers that were stored in a garage in Ohio for 20 years just in their original packs. Every one of them fired just fine.

You shouldn't store primers in an ammo can because if for some reason they ignite....the can becomes a bomb.

Joe

[Super38]

You shouldn't store primers in an ammo can because if for some reason they ignite....the can becomes a bomb.

Joe

With everyone hoarding primers and powder, I really don't think the can is going to make that much of a difference. And with a stock pile of ammo, where is a safe place in the house?

Super38

[Cadillo]

Before I retired my duty gun for the last eleven years was a Sig P-229 in .40 S&W. It would cycle and fire reliably with any factory ammo or handload I ever tried, except for handloads stoked with CCI primers. At least one, sometimes two or more out of every magazine would not detonate on the first strike. Handloads with any other brand of primer work just fine.

Also, I load my pistol ammo on a Dillon 550B. With CCI primers, it just does not cycle as smoothly as with WW or Federal. Remington primers are a real pain to load using the Dillon. They just do not run smoothly through the priming system, but do function well in all my guns.

I have gotten good service out of CCI rifle primers, but run away from their pistol primers. They are just too hard, and I refuse to respring perfectly good handguns just to accomodate a substandard (with regard to ignition) primer.

With regard to tuned revolvers. Mine will work reliably only with Federal primers, which are by far the softest I have used. These are range guns only and work just fine with my Federal primed loads.

Your milage may vary!

[knifemaker]

This is not a firearm problem. The firearm was a 44 mag rifle that has a heavy firing pin hit. In fact if the firing pin would hit any harder, I would have a piearced primer. As for the high primers, these twenty rounds were loaded on my RCBS Rock Chucker, not the Dillion press. I check every round coming off that press for high primers by feel with my finger as I pull the round out of the press. I am not a novice at reloading and I also have extensive firearms repair background and competive shooting background.

[Maven]

"Has anyone else been encountering problems with CCI primers? I have never in 30 years of loading encountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers."

knifemaker, I've had a number of failures to fire with CCI #34 primers in both my '06 and 8mm Mau. Some were due to primer pockets being too deep, but the rest were definitely CCI quality control problems* since the same guns fired some of the same brass (I scrapped the others) with another brand of primer.


*missing pellet of priming compound, for ex.

[Cadillo]

"Has anyone else been encountering problems with CCI primers? I have never in 30 years of loading encountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers."

knifemaker, I've had a number of failures to fire with CCI #34 primers in both my '06 and 8mm Mau. Some were due to primer pockets being too deep, but the rest were definitely CCI quality control problems* since the same guns fired some of the same brass (I scrapped the others) with another brand of primer.


*missing pellet of priming compound, for ex.

I assume that you know that the #34's emulate USGI specs and are even harder than the CCI std primers so as to prevent slamfires in rifles with floating firing pins such as the M1 Garand and M14 and clones. Their usage should probably be restricted to those types of weapons.

[mike in co]

With everyone hoarding primers and powder, I really don't think the can is going to make that much of a difference. And with a stock pile of ammo, where is a safe place in the house?

Super38

you need to understand that ther is a significant difference in burning powder, the popping of unchambered rounds as they ignite AND the expolsion of a primer, multiplied by 1000 or so CONTAINED in a strong metal can.

it aint the same at all

[StarMetal]

you need to understand that ther is a significant difference in burning powder, the popping of unchambered rounds as they ignite AND the expolsion of a primer, multiplied by 1000 or so CONTAINED in a strong metal can.

it aint the same at all

Guy was reloading on a Dillion auto press. It had a steel tube around the primer tube in event it blows it will blow up. His reloading bench is in the basement and under the kitchen. He was reloading one day and for some reason a primer detonated in the tube. There was a big explosion. When he regained his senses the tube was still there, but there was a gaping one foot hole in the ceiling which was the kitchen floor. Good thing his wife wasn't standing on that spot in the kitchen.

Now get those primers out of that metal ammo can. I'd rather see you store them in a Tubberware or Rubbemaid container. Those metal ammo cans lock up too tight and then become a bomb casing.

Joe

[mike in co]

This is not a firearm problem. The firearm was a 44 mag rifle that has a heavy firing pin hit. In fact if the firing pin would hit any harder, I would have a piearced primer. As for the high primers, these twenty rounds were loaded on my RCBS Rock Chucker, not the Dillion press. I check every round coming off that press for high primers by feel with my finger as I pull the round out of the press. I am not a novice at reloading and I also have extensive firearms repair background and competive shooting background.


sorry but you will have a hard time convincing us.
we have seen post after post of someones "bad primer".....
in every case it has gone back to the firearm or the loader.

primers are one of the most consistant products in our field.

[knifemaker]

well I pulled apart three of the rounds and gently decapped the primers. Anvil is in place and there does appear to be primer compound as far as I am able to detect. Either bad primer or possible comtamination during storage prior to my son buying them. Box appears to be in excellant condition and can rule out moisture damage.
My son will get them back and he can argue with the dealer he bought them from. As for convincing anyone, I really could care less as my purpose was to find out if this is a islolated incidence or if it is showing up with other reloaders.
As for shooting real primers, I will be going back to the Winchester brand and advise my son to do also.

[mike in co]

well I pulled apart three of the rounds and gently decapped the primers. Anvil is in place and there does appear to be primer compound as far as I am able to detect. Either bad primer or possible comtamination during storage prior to my son buying them. Box appears to be in excellant condition and can rule out moisture damage.
My son will get them back and he can argue with the dealer he bought them from. As for convincing anyone, I really could care less as my purpose was to find out if this is a islolated incidence or if it is showing up with other reloaders.
As for shooting real primers, I will be going back to the Winchester brand and advise my son to do also.


and all the rest of the world and cci do not know what they are doing ?

or one guy did something and his ammo failed....hmmmmmmmmmm

mike in co

[geargnasher]

well I pulled apart three of the rounds and gently decapped the primers. Anvil is in place and there does appear to be primer compound as far as I am able to detect. Either bad primer or possible comtamination during storage prior to my son buying them. Box appears to be in excellant condition and can rule out moisture damage.
My son will get them back and he can argue with the dealer he bought them from. As for convincing anyone, I really could care less as my purpose was to find out if this is a islolated incidence or if it is showing up with other reloaders.
As for shooting real primers, I will be going back to the Winchester brand and advise my son to do also.

Bundle up in PPE and whack one of those decapped duds with a hammer. Do the same with 15-20 fresh ones from the same lot. Report back.

I'm still shooting Remington 150s from a gun store closeout in 1982, given to me by my Stepfather around the time I started reloading ten years after that. Since I've had them they once spent eight years in an uninsulated metal storeroom in a cardboard box and still work great today. Not saying I would use them for BR competition now, but it really takes some bad storage conditions to turn primers into total duds.

Based on how the priming compound is handled and applied, I think it is highly unlikely that there is a bad mix, even running three shifts. Not impossible, but unlikely. Each lot is QCd. CCI isn't going to sacrifice safety for production after the experiences they've had in the past.

Gear

[knifemaker]

Mike do you work for CCI, or are you the go too arm chair expert here.

[Dale53]

You people who are accusing "Knifemaker" of not knowing what he is doing are, flat out, out of line. I have had two different lots of CCI primers that were bad and replaced by CCI (several years ago). It can happen. He has explained the circumstances and I, for one, believe him. Just because you haven't had a problem has little bearing on the situation.

The primers could be defective (I've had it happen as have several of my buddies over the years) or they could have been stored improperly.

Some years ago, a party I know had a primer problem. The primers were stored in a cabinet with solvents. The fumes from the solvents damaged them. Who would have thought so? Well, it happened.

Knifemaker, call CCI, tell them of the problem and give them the lot #. I'll bet that they make it right.

FWIW
Dale53

[Tippet]

All due respect to Mike and anyone else who's made a non-debatable decision, if a primer doesn't have its charge, then it won't go boom. The man said he inspected it to find an absence of charge. I think it's just common decency to take him at his word.

Any chane of a sharp close-up photo of the inspected primer next to a fresh live one? That ought to help settle it.

For the record, I've never had a bad primer in a handload, but I have heard of people dropping sweat or case lube on them causing a failure to boom.

I also have some M118LR, 4 or 5 rounds out of one box didn't boom. Nice deep strike mark too. It seems no one else who got ammo in that same buy had any misfires, so we're thinking it's hue to harder metal in military primers.

[shooterg]

I bet solvent fumes WOULD mess 'em up. I was given 1000 CCI SP primers in the old red/white itty bitty containers that had been SOAKED. Sat 'em in in a sunny window for a few weeks. Shot 600 so far, 3 FTF. Wouldn't want to take 'em to a match, but with cast boolits and free primers, the plate rack takes a beating !
I'm wondering if I couldn't have dried 'em in a 200 degree oven, but I'm not that brave(not scared of what the primers would do, but VERY afraid of the bride !). Anyway, looks like moisture don't ruin 'em - after all the stuff is moist when they place it in the cups, right ?

[Down South]

I had a bad batch of CCI Primers given to me a few years ago. They came from a buddy that had gotten out of the reloading business and the primers had been sitting on his shelf for years. These CCI Primers were piercing at the crown of the primer causing gas cutting to the bushing around the firing pin of my revolver. I fired several of them before I noticed the black smudge around the primer in some of the spent cases. I later found out that CCI had recalled some primers due to this defect. Evidently I had some of those primers. I trashed the rest of them.
The only other problem that I have had with CCI Primers is with a revolver that I had tuned and had a weaker hammer spring. I had some FTF’s with the weaker spring. I replaced the hammer spring with the next stronger one in the set and never had another problem.
I use CCI Primers exclusively with no problems. I use SP, LP, LPM, LR and LRM and they go bang every time.
I don’t rule out gun or seating depth problems but you appear to know what you are doing. I would at least test the primers in a different firearm. You mentioned that you had made several hundred rounds for your son. Has he tried any of them in his gun for problems? I would at least try them in another gun.
I do believe that CCI could have made a bad batch of primers though. I would think if the primers failed to fire on a second strike that contamination may be the problem.
I would question the seller as to where he obtained the primers and how they were stored plus how old they were. Even though I really don’t think age really plays that big of a part because I have CCI primers that have sat on my shelf for more than 20 years and when I use them I never have a problem.
My thinking is, if the primer strike is sufficient, the primer seating depth is correct and the primer is charged then contamination is the problem.
If the seller claims that the primers are fairly new and were stored properly, I'd give CCI a call and see what they have to say about it.

[1874Sharps]

Gentlemen,

I had a problem with CCI LR Benchrest primers a year ago. I bought a box of 100 because I was doing some accuracy load development and wanted to try out what I figured would be the best quality CCI primer out there. Out of ten rounds fired I had two misfires and one hangfire. I threw the remaining box of 90 primers away. Since then I have fired hundreds of CCI primed rounds with no difficulties. So yes, I can confirm CCI primer problems as well.

Mike in CO does not speak for me.

[Cherokee]

All I can say is I've never had a problem with CCI primers (in 50 years of reloading) that was not the fault of the gun. But I do not have any current mfg CCI's, mine are all several years old or older.

[mike in co]

All due respect to Mike and anyone else who's made a non-debatable decision, if a primer doesn't have its charge, then it won't go boom. The man said he inspected it to find an absence of charge. I think it's just common decency to take him at his word.

Any chane of a sharp close-up photo of the inspected primer next to a fresh live one? That ought to help settle it.

For the record, I've never had a bad primer in a handload, but I have heard of people dropping sweat or case lube on them causing a failure to boom.

I also have some M118LR, 4 or 5 rounds out of one box didn't boom. Nice deep strike mark too. It seems no one else who got ammo in that same buy had any misfires, so we're thinking it's hue to harder metal in military primers.


actually he said IT DID HAVE COMPOUND ....

GO REREAD THE POST

[mike in co]

I load for myself and my son for IDPA shooting. I had loaded up 20 rounds for accuracy testing. I normally use Winchester primers, but open a new brick of CCI primers that my son had purchased about one month ago. He purchased two bricks of 2000 primers that may have defective primers in the intire batch.
While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try. I have not pulled the shells apart yet to check the primers. The bad part of this, I had used the same brick to load up 600 rounds of match ammo for my son prior to loading these 20 rounds for testing in another gun.
Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. I have never in 30 years of loading incountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers. I tested the gun with another load with Winchester primers and no misfires.
I know that CCI has a rep for hard cup metal, but the primer indention was good and not caused by a light firing pin hit or a high primer. :groner:


ok guys read his post.

second strike and primer went bang.
that is not a bad primer...that is an issue with installation or the gun
contaminated primers do not go bang on the second hit
empty primers do not go bamng on the second hit

i do agree if the primers have been ouit of cci's control that they would have limited liability for a failed product.
BUT
ALL THE PRIMERS WENT OFF ON THE SECOND HIT.

mike in co

[Tippet]

Jesus Mike don't get your tail in a knot. So I misread about the primer charge being there, oops. No need to shout.

BTW, the way I read it, they also failed to fire on a second try. Back when I took math, that meant something different than "second strike and primer went bang". But what with the way things change so fast in this country, could be you're right. I just don't know.

[Recluse]

Some of you guys, especially in Colorado, must live damned charmed lives.

I've had primer failures from all four (now five) manufacturers and in a variety of firearms. It's going to happen on occasion. No one, no manufacturer, bats 1000% 100% of the time. It just doesn't happen.

Back in the 90's after the last primer drought, I bought 5K small pistol primers from CCI and had one brick that was just flat bad. Every single gun had problems with the primers.

Did exactly what Dale53 recommends. Called up CCI, gave them the lot number and they sent me TWO bricks to replace the one brick. Yeah, I was out the reloading time, but they were target/plinking rounds anyhow. I kept the misfires (and there were a bunch), pulled the bullets and re-used the components, sans primer and powder.

It happens.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

This is priceless.


ok guys read his post.

second strike and primer went bang.

OK, Mike, you gonna stick with that? Because next you go on and on with this, and in the same post:


that is not a bad primer...that is an issue with installation or the gun
contaminated primers do not go bang on the second hit empty primers do not go bamng on the second hit

i do agree if the primers have been ouit of cci's control that they would have limited liability for a failed product.
BUT
ALL THE PRIMERS WENT OFF ON THE SECOND HIT.

mike in co

HOWEVER. . . . , I believe--and YOU even QUOTED IT YOURSELF--that Knifemaker's original post said this:



While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try.

Try READING THE POST(s) yourself.

:coffee:

[Maven]

Does anyone happen to have the telephone number of CCI, i.e., the department that addresses primer problems? Btw, the lot no. of my #34 primers is E 19C.

[mike in co]

oppss.............
my bad

so if they fail on the second hit and have compound.....it may be a primer issue..there i said it.

but
we do not know if this was a retail purchase or second hand with no know storage history for the primers.

so claiming there may be a lot of bad primers is not correct without proof...documentation from factory to user.

i never said a primer never failed.

but when a sinlge lot fails 12 of 20 times i'm suspisious as to the cause.

that is a 60% failure rate...no company could stay in business that way.

i'm sticking with my story factory primers are the most consistant part of our process.

with 100 degree summers and minus 0 degree winters in colorado, i have not had an issue with primers. i use cci, win, wolf, fed, and rem.
i did have an issue with a gun...was trying cci34/41 in winter...and the lube on my gun slowed everything to the point i was getting lite strikes. not a primer issue...a gun/lube issue.

mike in co

[beanflip]

Try this # 1-800-627-3640.

Hope this helps

[jcwit]

Does anyone happen to have the telephone number of CCI, i.e., the department that addresses primer problems? Btw, the lot no. of my #34 primers is E 19C.

Google is your friend, also white pages.

The phone number is 208-746-2351, this gives you the main switchboard.

[wiljen]

Lets try to be civil with one another shall we!


It is possible that the primers were fine when they left CCI and were mishandled somewhere in between where the fault lies neither with CCI or with the reloader in question. This is why I would never buy "Gun show" primers as you honestly dont know if they survived a flood or are repackaged and mis-labeled. Did they arrive via the BBT from a reputable source or is there a period of time where you dont know how they might have stored or mistreated?

[1874Sharps]

I believe it was Mike in CO who also said in a most rude and recent post that roll crimping a straightwall case that headspaces on its mouth cannot affect headspace of said cartridge, but that is another story. I do not know why some individuals choose to respond to posts in such ill-mannered fashion such as this thread reveals, but perhaps if it is publically called to attention that may dissuade it.

[grages]

I would like to know the lot numbers of the Bricks that you have, while I don't know if I have any of that lot I think it would be a good Idea to keep a list of Brands, sizes , & lot numbers of primers just in case there is a problem.

knifemaker, Since you have 600 loaded, are you planning to shoot them or pull them apart? If you are going to pull them apart you could "dry fire" them to see if they continue to show the trend without the loss of the other components. Of course maintaining proper safety procedures

Shawn.

[BD]

Sorry to repeat a post, but this applies to several primer threads concurently. The below is correspondence between myself and CCI concerning a funky lot of CCI LP primers back in 2007.
I was a little disappointed to hear that primers i had to crush to seat flush were within spec. CCI can have QC issues the same as anyone else. It doesn't mean that they're not a good company.
BD

RE: cci-ammunition.com - Ask CCI
...
Thu, April 26, 2007 8:01:00 PM
From:
William Dallam <w_dallam@yahoo.com> [Chat now]
...
View Contact
To: cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com>
Coy,
I am measuring with a digital caliper as the blade on my blade mic is not thin enough to get between the legs of an assembled primer. I should probably pull a few apart and measure them with the blade mic. Irregardless of the actual measurement, my lot #JO5H CCI primers will seat OK, My Winchester primers will seat OK and this week I bought 1,000 Federal Large Pistol primers and they seat OK. Unfortunately the CCI lot # DO8M will not seat flush unless I crush them. I've been at this awhile, honest. My .45 acp range brass is mixed. I looked at a box of fifty tonight and there's 12 different headstamps in that box and they all have CCI lot #JO5H primers seated in them just fine. I'll let you know what I find when I pull the anvils out of a few and get good measurements.
Bill Dallam

cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com> wrote:

Bill: the measurement of the cup (between the anvil legs) should be 0.112" +/- 0.004, if you have measured correctly at 0.1115" the primer cup is in-spec. The assembled height (bottom of cup to top of anvil) should measure 0.117" to 0.125" to meet Industry Standard. It would appear that the primers meet Industry Specification, check the primer pockets for size, they should be 0.117" to 0.123" deep. Also, check for burrs on the primer insertion portion of the press.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator

[deltaenterprizes]

Sorry to repeat a post, but this applies to several primer threads concurently. The below is correspondence between myself and CCI concerning a funky lot of CCI LP primers back in 2007.
I was a little disappointed to hear that primers i had to crush to seat flush were within spec. CCI can have QC issues the same as anyone else. It doesn't mean that they're not a good company.
BD

RE: cci-ammunition.com - Ask CCI
...
Thu, April 26, 2007 8:01:00 PM
From:
William Dallam <w_dallam@yahoo.com> [Chat now]
...
View Contact
To: cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com>
Coy,
I am measuring with a digital caliper as the blade on my blade mic is not thin enough to get between the legs of an assembled primer. I should probably pull a few apart and measure them with the blade mic. Irregardless of the actual measurement, my lot #JO5H CCI primers will seat OK, My Winchester primers will seat OK and this week I bought 1,000 Federal Large Pistol primers and they seat OK. Unfortunately the CCI lot # DO8M will not seat flush unless I crush them. I've been at this awhile, honest. My .45 acp range brass is mixed. I looked at a box of fifty tonight and there's 12 different headstamps in that box and they all have CCI lot #JO5H primers seated in them just fine. I'll let you know what I find when I pull the anvils out of a few and get good measurements.
Bill Dallam

cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com> wrote:

Bill: the measurement of the cup (between the anvil legs) should be 0.112" +/- 0.004, if you have measured correctly at 0.1115" the primer cup is in-spec. The assembled height (bottom of cup to top of anvil) should measure 0.117" to 0.125" to meet Industry Standard. It would appear that the primers meet Industry Specification, check the primer pockets for size, they should be 0.117" to 0.123" deep. Also, check for burrs on the primer insertion portion of the press.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator

Sounds like you could have LARGE RIFLE primers, try one in a rifle case and see if it seats properly.

[beanflip]

One thing to remember is any thing that is built by us humans can and will produce items that aren't to what we expect. That is why there are phone #s so we can call and lot #s so the items can be traced to the problem.

Just my 2¢ worth and just think I could be wrong.

back to the reloading bench

[SHORTY 1919 TODD]

1st, My Dad visited me last summer and brought some CCI primers that I had bought in 1984, and stored in a wooden chest in humid Kansas. I loaded them up in .357 cases and all shot great out of a 686 Smith.

That said I purposely use small rifle primers in my 9mm loads for safety in my open bolt NFA registered subguns. A soft cup can detonate the cartridge out of battery because that type of gun uses a fixed firing pin. So hard rifle primers are cheaper than MIL SPEC. so that is what I use and never fails. Note subguns handle more pressure and rifle primers have a hotter flash to ignite slower powder so use this info for your acedemic purposes.......If you use rifle primers work up.

[felix]

The 1982-1985 CCI lots were/are excellent, and has nothing to do with the current problems. CCI and Federal, specifically the latter, HAD to undergo a cup change to use a different material to pass a different specification, and I suppose that was military oriented, but not stated specifically. That was from communication I had about four years ago now, and reported here by me. I cannot find the emails back and forth. ... felix

[mike in co]

I believe it was Mike in CO who also said in a most rude and recent post that roll crimping a straightwall case that headspaces on its mouth cannot affect headspace of said cartridge, but that is another story. I do not know why some individuals choose to respond to posts in such ill-mannered fashion such as this thread reveals, but perhaps if it is publically called to attention that may dissuade it.

well because you are 100% wrong in your statement. i neve made such a cliam,
and your description of headspace is wrong. headspace is a characteristic of a guns chamber, not of ammunition.

that would be clearance, not headspace.

but with all that blackpowder smoke in your eyes you may have an excuse.

yes people should not responed to your poor posts.

mike in co

[Down South]

If you are going to pull them apart you could "dry fire" them
That's not a good idea if they are dry fired in a revolver. It could lock the cylinder up. Primers will back out of a case without a powder charge and boolit seated. Don't ask me how I know.

[Tippet]

wow. this thread stopped being fun somewhere over the rocky mountains. Unsubscribing to the thread now. Play nice my brothers.

[mike in co]

I load for myself and my son for IDPA shooting. I had loaded up 20 rounds for accuracy testing. I normally use Winchester primers, but open a new brick of CCI primers that my son had purchased about one month ago. He purchased two bricks of 2000 primers that may have defective primers in the intire batch.
While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try. I have not pulled the shells apart yet to check the primers. The bad part of this, I had used the same brick to load up 600 rounds of match ammo for my son prior to loading these 20 rounds for testing in another gun.
Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. I have never in 30 years of loading incountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers. I tested the gun with another load with Winchester primers and no misfires.
I know that CCI has a rep for hard cup metal, but the primer indention was good and not caused by a light firing pin hit or a high primer. :groner:


so why do i have an attitude over this post ?

because the guy says "may have defective primers in the intire batch.", but he has not talked to the manufacturer. he is out on a public forum claiming a 60% failure rate of cci lp primers.

thats why.

if you have an issue with a product, go to the maker, and ask. then if, and only if, after discussing with the maker, things are not resolved, then go public. airing an issue like this is just plain rude.

publish:
where they were purchased
lot number
and when they were purchased.
way too many variables to whine without asking the maker first.

mike in co

[Tippet]

ugh. Forgot to hit the unsub link. Won't forget that now.

[grages]

I have only been a member of this forum for 6 months, But I might have asked the same question if I had a 60% failure rate. I would ask it here to get feedback, the groups opinion, which is what he does when he says

Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. Only he put a period rather than a question mark, but clearly it is a question.

And he has received many different answers.

In the end he will probably need to talk to the manufacturer, but if there had been a well known defect there is a good chance that knowledgeable people here might have known about it.

[mike in co]

I have only been a member of this forum for 6 months, But I might have asked the same question if I had a 60% failure rate. I would ask it here to get feedback, the groups opinion, which is what he does when he says
Only he put a period rather than a question mark, but clearly it is a question.

And he has received many different answers.

In the end he will probably need to talk to the manufacturer, but if there had been a well known defect there is a good chance that knowledgeable people here might have known about it.

like the manufacture..one phone call ...google is your friend

and i migh have taken your position if he hadn't said"may have defective primers in the intire batch"...but he did...so i stand by my story.

no need to ask us when the maker is so close.

[wiljen]

I think asking us is perfectly legit. Manufacturers rely on feedback from people like us to help find problems.


If this cant be kept to a civil tone, I'm going to lock it and whatever thread it migrates to next. I've now said it twice. Don't make me resort to individual warnings.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
I have had an occasional bad primer. but very few in the last 30+ years of reloading. I have also had bad factory rounds. most reloads problems were probibly my fault. And % has been very, very low in both cases.

[Maven]

All, Here's a copy of an e-mail from CCI that I received earlier today. Note the change in telephone number and the availability of Mr. Getman:

Thank you for your email.

CCI #34 primers, Lot E19C were manufactured in May of 1997. We do not
have any prior reports of problems on this lot in our database records.

The best suggestion I can make at this time (our technician is out until
Jan 4th) is to call our Technical line on or after Jan 4th and discuss
with him. Technical Services 1-866-286-7436 (Coy Getman) Linda

Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501

[1874Sharps]

Oh, by the way, speaking of CCI and contacts by phone and email, I dropped them an email about two weeks back or so and proposed that they consider coming out with a run of Berdan primers so that reloaders can reload some of that old foreign milsurp ammo. Linda Olin said that she would forward that idea on. I hope CCI and other makers will do this.

[mike in co]

Oh, by the way, speaking of CCI and contacts by phone and email, I dropped them an email about two weeks back or so and proposed that they consider coming out with a run of Berdan primers so that reloaders can reload some of that old foreign milsurp ammo. Linda Olin said that she would forward that idea on. I hope CCI and other makers will do this.


wolf makes them..just need to convince($$$$) someone to bring them in.....
i have a sleeve of lr.......they were only $120 delivered...ouch don't you wish ...

mike in co

[500bfrman]

primers are one of the most consistant products in our field.

really? where are they at?

[mike in co]

really? where are they at?

are you asking where primers are at ?
if so the gun show in at the merchandise mart(i25 and 58th) tanner, will have nearly every make and size. one of my customers is a componnent/ammo seller and has just recieved a lagre shipment of primers.

mike in co

[gasboffer]

I don't remember seeing so many "experts" on a subject in one thread since I started reading this forum.
All the original poster asked was about CCI primers failing to ignite. Look at all the advice about revolvers, his loading technique, and all the other subjects not at all related to the original question.
How about limiting replies to your personal experience and not something you have heard from a friend of a friend, or read on the internet?
Sorry for the rant.
Clyde

[mike in co]

I don't remember seeing so many "experts" on a subject in one thread since I started reading this forum.
All the original poster asked was about CCI primers failing to ignite. Look at all the advice about revolvers, his loading technique, and all the other subjects not at all related to the original question.
How about limiting replies to your personal experience and not something you have heard from a friend of a friend, or read on the internet?
Sorry for the rant.
Clyde

clyde...read the whole post. when one asks about primer failure...the answers covers any cause of the failure. the manufacture, the gun and the user. so sorry but you are not correct. he also stated ""may have defective primers in the intire batch.". so quit looking at part of a post.

i do agree with you about not posting "what i heard /read on the net"

mike in co

[C1PNR]

I don't like most Lee products, and I don't like CCI primers. WW and Federal seem to work best for me. I do have quite a few Lee products, and I have a quantity of CCI primers, too.

I've had failures to fire on occasion, more with CCI than with others. Many of the failures I could attribute to improper seating, but not all.

I do agree with an earlier post that a hard cup primer is an advantage when loading for the M 1 and/or M 1A to help avoid slam fires.