Help with marvelux

[nextone2]

I am trying marvelux for the 2nd time and I am running into the same problem. When I reuse my spoon the next day it just goes nuts because of the moisture. I have tried preheating the spoon but it still goes nuts. i really like the way it works but I don't like the way the spoon acts when you reuse it. Sure would like to know what other people do to stop this.

[405]

Fluxing agents like Marvelux are hygroscopic (absorb moisture). If you use Marvelux and ladle pour you can run into the same problem especially during the cold months. The solution is to set the ladle or skimming "spoon" or whatever on top of the alloy in the pot then start the melt. Usually avoids the tinsel fairy.
Or just avoid those type of fluxes. Use something like a wooden dowel.

[waksupi]

Yep, stop using it, and stir with a stick.

[35remington]

Preheating it on top of the melt (don't dip it below the surface of the molten lead!) will positively prevent the problem you are describing.

Period.

If it still happens, you haven't heated it enough to drive the moisture out. Let it float for quite awhile.

That's all there is to it, and that's what I do to stop it. Believe me, I've used Marvelux a lot more than twice, and it works every time.

[fredj338]

Yep, stop using it, and stir with a stick.

Yep, or add the Marvelux & stir w/ a stick?

[Shiloh]

I float the spoon on the melt till it stops sizzling. Then it's good to go.
I use a paint stiring stick as well.

Have used oil and wax bits but it is smoky and stinks.


Shiloh

[Shuz]

I use a different spoon to add my Marvelux and it never enters the melt. As others have said, Marvelux is very "water seeking" and tools used with it should not come into contact with molten metal.

[muskeg13]

I've used marvelux for over 15 years and will never go back to using wax, rosin or saw dust because it doesn't produce the smoke, soot or oily residue that the others do, and it does a good job of fluxing. To minimize the moisture/splattering problem, as the pot is heating, use a small wire brush to clean off any residue from your last casting session. Do this to both the spoon and ladle. You will still need to lay the spoon and ladle lightly on top of your alloy to let them heat gradually and drive off any remaining moisture.

Also make sure to follow the normal casting safety procedures such as wearing heavy 100% cotton clothing, including a long sleeved shirt with the cuffs buttoned at your wrists, ankle high leather shoes, leather gloves, eye protection and a hat. The idea is to minimize the amount of exposed skin when you have splatters, which you will have from time to time. So far, I've never been burned.

[yodar]

Yep, stop using it, and stir with a stick.

Marvelux is a silicate mixture and acts like boric acid. Stir during Introduction then WAIT. It needs to be allowed to achieve the right temperature WITHOUT STIRRING to form a glassy crust on top of the alloy. WAIT!

When the fused flux appears as a crust on top, it will have gathered the particulate contaminants and debris within the crust to enable its ease of removal

This can be easily duplicated with boric acid or 20-Mule Team Borax (Sodium tetra Borate octahydrate)

yodar

[Three44s]

Around my neck of the woods ....... Marvelux is a dirty word!

And for this reason alone:

I hate the way it cruds up my casting pot! :groner:

WITH A VENGENCE! [smilie=b:

The best help I can give anybody stuck with some of this material is to give directions to the nearest dumpster.

Three 44s

[dromia]

Stopped using Marvelux years ago as it was more bother than it was worth, get just as good a flux by stirring with a stick.

No that I flux that often after I've made the alloy.

[armyrat1970]

Wow, I am surprised at the responses here. I have used Marvelux as a flux for a number of years with nary a problem. Always added it straight into my pot with never a visit from the tinsel fairy. I place a pea sized or larger portion on the top of the melt and let it melt than stir the pot. Never had a problem with it. I don't see it as producing all of the problems others have posted. But in casting everyone has their own experiences.

[35remington]

Army, the issue is with Marvelux residue on pot stirring implements, rather than fresh Marvelux.

This is why you don't have the issues that others do. A moment of inattention and you may have a visit from the tinsel fairy as well, if you introduce dried on and moisturized Marvelux below the surface of the melt.

[cbrick]

Threw the Marvelux away several years ago and have had clean alloy and a clean pot ever since. I now use sawdust and have every bit as well fluxed alloy and none of the problems of Marvelux such as an afternoon spent with a wire brush on a drill motor trying to grind the crud off the sides of the pot and never a tinsel fairy.

Rick

[44wcf]

I am trying marvelux for the 2nd time and I am running into the same problem. When I reuse my spoon the next day it just goes nuts because of the moisture. I have tried preheating the spoon but it still goes nuts. i really like the way it works but I don't like the way the spoon acts when you reuse it. Sure would like to know what other people do to stop this.

throw out the Marvelflux and get a box of this.
Patmarlins™ "World Famous" California Flake Flux™
One box will last a life time.
44wcf

[mpmarty]

wood chips as in Pat Martins fine product are carbon based and when introduced to the melt the carbon acts as a catalyst to recombine the elements and cause the dirt suspended in the mix to float to the surface for skimming and removal. Stirring with a wooden stick accomplishes the same end.:redneck:

[waksupi]

The best thing about using the stick, it gets into the bottom of the melt. No matter how hard you stir any flux put on top, the specific gravity of lead will prevent it from going into the melt.

[35remington]

" No matter how hard you stir any flux put on top, the specific gravity of lead will prevent it from going into the melt."

Which is why, despite some claims to the contrary, liquid or solid flux of any type that is on the surface of the melt does not "bring up impurities from below." It never did and never will.

Flux cannot clean what it cannot reach. If the dirt is below the surface, floating flux won't release it.

That's why you stir...to bring the impurities to the flux. It won't do it on its own. In the case of a stick, you bring the agent to the impurities.

[StarMetal]

I didn't think the purpose of the flux was to make dirt surface. I thought it was to help the different alloys blend. I'm not sure on the flux stories here. I know in steel making they use a flux. Also on this specific gravity thing, how do different alloys blend if their gravities are different?

Joe

[armyrat1970]

I use Marvelux when first starting to cast. Add it to my alloy and wait for it to melt. Stir my pot well and scrape the sides. Then I add either CFF or just old crushed up oak leaves to cover the top with an ash to help stop oxidation. Have even used pine needles. If I add more ingots to the pot I will add a little more Marvelux, stir and scrape the sides and add more CFF or oak leaves.
I understand about the tinsel fairy visit. I use a butter knife to stir my Lee 10# pot and usually keep it and my ladle under my pot to keep the moisture away. One night I just laid the butter knife on the side. Just a brain lapse. Added a little more alloy and Marvelux and went to stir the pot with the butter knife. All I can say is I am glad I was wearing my glasses as the hot alloy erupted. But it was not the Marvelux that caused it. Even if you use a stick and allow moisture to gather on the stick it will cause the alloy to erupt when you try to stir your pot. I make it a point to keep all of the utensils I use in casting under my pot to stop any moisture from collecting on them.
I believe if you stir your melt well enough with any fluxing agent it will do it's job.

[PatMarlin]

Anyone ever get a pot to react with a green stick or a stick with to much moisture content?

Just wondered as I've never heard that before. Your average paint stick is going to be bone dry except for the ambient moisture it pics up in your enviroment.

CFF with absorb moisture as well, but when you set it on top of your melt it quickly evaporates before stirring it in. I've never had a vist from Miss Tinsel thank god.

[waksupi]

No, don't use a green stick. There are plenty dry ones around. I have used a stick in the past that had apparently drawn a bit of moisture, that had an interesting sizzle as it was put in the pot, but no explosion. I would think it would be a dandy way to get a visit from the tinsel fairy, though.

[armyrat1970]

No, don't use a green stick. There are plenty dry ones around. I have used a stick in the past that had apparently drawn a bit of moisture, that had an interesting sizzle as it was put in the pot, but no explosion. I would think it would be a dandy way to get a visit from the tinsel fairy, though.

Have had the same results and put the stick into the melt a little at a time till the sizzle stopped. Then stirred. Would it have erupted if I would have just shoved the whole stick in there at once? Don't know, but I didn't want to find out the hard way. Even a paint stick can pick up enough moisture to cause a problem if not careful. Wood even more than my metal butter knife.

Pat I use your CFF and like it. I also use Marvelux and like it. As you, or I, do with the CFF, I set the Marvelux on top of the melt and let it melt before stirring and have never had a problem. I have taken oak leaves that were not completly dry and set them on top of the melt with no problem but I never stir them, just let the ash float on top to stop oxidation.

[HamGunner]

I used Marvelux when I first started casting. Hated the stuff because of the moisture, but did not understand what I was trying to do with the flux to start with. Later just used bullet lube or candle wax and it was a stinking mess and worked no better. Tried Frankfort Arsenals flux. Not much better. Finally heard about the carbon and what it was for, so I started using sawdust. Much, much better. Cleaner alloy, cleaner pot, less clogging of the bottom spout. Also, the oxidation should be kept down if left on top of the alloy in a bottom pour. I have not used a wooden stick, but I bet by the next casting session that I'll have me a few ready. That should do the trick for the dipper pot for certain.

[Bert2368]

Here's my take on it...


I didn't think the purpose of the flux was to make dirt surface. I thought it was to help the different alloys blend. I'm not sure on the flux stories here. I know in steel making they use a flux. Also on this specific gravity thing, how do different alloys blend if their gravities are different?

Joe

Part of the issue here is that "fluxing" is a word used to describe a couple of very different processes, one is lowering a mixture's melting point and another which could more accurately be called "reduction".

Cryolite is a flux in Aluminum manufacture. It melts at a much lower temp than
the Aluminum oxide, and dissolves it to enable the electrolytic process to be carried out at a temperature that an Iron process cell can stand. Similarly, Limestone and
Soda ash or borax can be used to lower the temperatures needed to process a melt in glass manufacture. The limestone added to a blast furnace is used as a processing aid, it's a flux which first dissolves and then reacts with the unwanted silicon dioxide from the Iron ore, forming a liquid Calcium silicate slag which floats on the Iron where it can be tapped off separately.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_flux

Carbon and Hydrogen containing substances like wood, charcoal, rosin, waxes and oils actually combine with the Oxygen from the metal oxides floating in and on your melted bullet alloys. The carbon dioxide then leaves your pot, and the metal freed by the process rejoins your melt. That's reduction.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)

As far as "making dirt surface", crud that doesn't dissolve in molten metal and can't be reduced to a free metal but is less dense than your metal will float on the top- Where it can get stuck in the molten glassy first type of flux, and more easily removed. Getting it to the surface has more to do with the lower density of the trash.

[TCLouis]

I bought a can years ago cause it had to be great.
It worked fine for two casting sessions, but I found rust where there had never been rust and Marvelux or not I have never used it since.

Wax and sawdust do all I have needed them to do.

[leadman]

Even here in Arizona Marvelux will cause a pot to rust. It also causes many problems with the bottom pour device. Not worth all the maintenance issues Marvelux causes to use it.

I use candle wax most of the time. My pot is clean, no crud on the sides of the pot or the valves.

Tried beeswax, which worked fine, but left a tacky residue especially on the top rim of the pot.

I do use a hardwood dowel most of the time to stir the melt. I also use a big cooking spoon which the melted candle wax will cover then I submerge into the melt.