Alliant 2400 vs. 410

[Marlin Junky]

Which powder would be better for reduced loads in the 444 and 45-70, Alliant's 2400 or 410? I'm trying to get a purchase together from PV (Powder Valley) and appreciate ease of loading and uniform ballistics (doesn't everybody :D) with the lighter boolits in those calibers... by lighter I mean about 275 grains in the 444 and 300 to 350 grains in the 45-70. This powder would be for PB boolits pushed into the 1600 to 1700 fps range.

Thanks for your opinions...
MJ

[45 2.1]

SR4759 would be better............

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with 45 2.1.

Larry Gibson

[RobS]

Agreed on IMR 4759, but if you were going to consider between Alliants 2400 and 410 you will have better luck with 2400 as it ignites much easier. Either way you will more than likely need to use a filler (dacron for example) as neither 2400 nor 410 will fill the case enough for consistent ignition. 4759 on the other hand is a much bulkier powder and will support more case volumn.

[Marlin Junky]

I'm using surplus 4759 now but will run out soon and was planning to replace it with something that goes through the powder measure a bit smoother. I also like the fact that the two Alliant powders are a bit less expensive; however, if it means using filler vs. not using filler, I'll take the powder that doesn't need the filler, regardless of it's higher price tag.

MJ

P.S. BTW, does anyone know anything about Jeff Bartlett's Russian made 4198 (http://gibrass.com/gunpowder.html)

[softpoint]

AA5744 is another powder that is not position sensitive, I don't know about price and availability, though.

[felix]

Any powder is position sensitive, even if it does fill the case. It's a matter of degree with what you can live with for the accuracy you desire. Any load which delivers more than 100 fps per shot variance, a change is more or less mandatory for safety from some sort of auto re-ignition (SEE). ... felix

[jdgabbard]

I'd think I'd look at something that would give a bit more volume for my loads... 2400 is a fantastic magnum handgun powder. I just don't think you'd be able to safely put enough of it in the cartridge for you to see consistency...

[Marlin Junky]

Which powder has the smaller kernels: 4759 or 5744?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

... in the .444 & 45-70 with reduced loads and 275 to 350 grain boolits?

MJ

[gerrycan]

Hi,
My 2 cents. Trail boss. Gerry.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had real good luck with 2400 in the 4570. Alliant doesnt recomend 410 for metalic reloading. I dont know why but im sure its something with its burn characteristics.

[softpoint]

I believe 5744 has smaller kernels than 4759. I use them both and like both of them.

[mpmarty]

my chronograph and I like 2400 just fine in 45/70.
350gr RD boolit over 25 grains with no filler.

[MtGun44]

For reduced loads, I'd use Unique.

Bill

[TCLouis]

mpmarty
What results are you getting with the 25.0 2400 and 350 RD?
Velocity and grouping.

MJ
5744 meters easier more consistently than 4759.

[Gerald C]

try 8700 will fill case no filler, shoots 410 grs. in 40 cal.( 40-82) 1500 fps + great groups, a little dirty, but dosen't seem to hurt
Gerald C

[mpmarty]

TC my fifty yard targets are cloverleaf patterns five touching holes. Velocity over my chrono is 1400fps plus or minus 15fps for ten shots out of my 1895 Marlin w/ 22 inch barrel.

[fourdollarbill]

I don't think 410 would be good for any reduced load. It is similar to Lil'Gun and LG needs to be a max for a metallic to get any kind of performance. The 2400 is most likely suited for reducing the load in you caliber as it has a pretty wide range. Obviously there are better powders for reduced loads depending on the speeds you want. Plinking? Killing? Target? so many recipes to offer.

[SciFiJim]

I've been looking into reduced loads myself. It looks like TrailBoss might be the way to go. A lot of information out there, including load info for 45-70.

[semtav]

This powder would be for PB boolits pushed into the 1600 to 1700 fps range.

Thanks for your opinions...
MJ


I don't have a chronograph, so I don't know how fast they were going, but I loaded my 45-90 with 20 gr of trail boss and a 500 gr bulllet and could barely get it to the target. I kept raising my sights and finally found one of the bullets laying in front of the target. It had skipped thru the snow almost undamaged. They couldn't have been going very fast. So it would be interesting to see if a 350 gr bullet in the 45-70 would get up to that speed.

24 gr in the 45-90 does get it there, but I'm betting not very fast.

[Marlin Junky]

I'm just getting started, but I'm getting pretty good results with 21 grains of WC-820 behind a 315 grain PB in the .444. 25 grains of 4759 at 100 fps faster wasn't very good. The 820 clocks right at 1400 fps with BHN 13 alloy. Perhaps I'll be able to reach 1600 fps with 4759 and the right boolit/alloy/lube combination. I have noticed an improvement in accuracy and barrel condition stability using my homebrew lube which is an altered form of Javelina (at about 1400 fps) vs. BAC.

410 looks like a 2400 variant whereas LIL'GUN is a Hodgdon product and I think I'm going to try the former as soon as I can unload some of my slower sphericals.

MJ

[harvester]

My Marlin with 22 inch barrel really likes 5744 best as far as I can tell.

[uscra112]

AA #9 is the choice for a lot of the ASSRA competitors, who shoot reduced loads in .32-40 and .38-55. Almost the exact same "speed" as 2400, but a lot more consistent. Have proven this to myself using it in my .25-21 Stevens, for loads around 1400 fps with a 25:1 plain base, no filler. The old Chrony, (when it works), showed SD values of half what 2400 would do, and groups are markedly tighter. I still like 5744 in my .35 Rem., but you do have to pressure it up until it burns completely. AA #9 seems to burn clean at any pressure. Maybe that tiny grain size has something to do with it. Anyway, 2400 is history for me, to be replaced with AA #9.

[noylj]

2400 has been used for decades for cast bullets and .45-70. Is there even any reloading data for 410.
I think that too many are over thinking and creating problems.
You are not going to blow up your rifle with 2400 due to spontaneous auto ignition or even the unproven pressure wave situation. Even Unique is a perfectly adequate powder, again with decades of usage.
Fillers and dacron puff is not needed. I have read too many stories or ringing the barrel with the use of fillers. I would rather lift the muzzle up a bit before firing if I was that concerned.
If you want full-power loads, then you need a rifle powder. See any reloading manual. 4064 and 4198 have been used.

[tuckerdog]

I dont know what velocity it would give but I agree with trail boss. it's a nice "fluffy" powder that would fill the case ok and in my opinion provides plenty of accuracy for the errant can or even a pack of maurading gophers

[Marlin Junky]

Nah, Trail Boss is too fast... I'm not looking for Cowboy Action loads. I want to at least beat .22RF velocities.

Thanks just the same for the suggestion.

MJ

[Reload3006]

I have Emailed Alliant and asked but was wondering what y'all thought. IMR4227 is not available nor is 2400 But I found some alliant 410 I got a couple pounds ... what do y'all think for a 311041GC in 30-30 and 30-06?

[Marlin Junky]

I have Emailed Alliant and asked but was wondering what y'all thought. IMR4227 is not available nor is 2400 But I found some alliant 410 I got a couple pounds ... what do y'all think for a 311041GC in 30-30 and 30-06?

Have you figured it out yet?

If not, try 16 grains of 410 in the '06 and please report back... show us the targets.

MJ