new to casting

[joshmb1982]

greetings all. i was refered to you guys by a friend of mine. im just getting into casting my own bullets and seems i made a mistake already. i didnt realize what was involved. i went to a local garage and picked up 2 buckets of wheel weights and proceeded to melt em down in a little fire i made in my back yard. i didnt do anything but melt it down and make some small ingots. didnt flux it or anything(still need to find out exactly what that is?). did i ruin the lead i melted or can i simply melt it down and add the stuff back in?

any tips or advise you dont mind shareing with a newbee?

[blikseme300]

Josh,

Welcome to the world of cast boolits.

I don't think you have ruined anything. There are some dangers though when just melting WW's (Wheel Weights) without sorting. There are zinc ones that, if melted, will contaminate your smelt. They are easy to spot if you don't run your melting temperatures too high as they will not melt at the lower temperature that the lead-based WW's will.

Fluxing is simply the cleaning of the smelt. The exact chemical explanation is not required other than the oxidized (think rust) bits are returned to the alloy and the contaminants (junk) float to the top and can be scooped off.

I use ponderosa pine sticks to stir and flux. Others use their own methods. There is no single "golden method".

Hang around, read a lot and ask questions. This is no black magic but is a lot of fun.

Bliksem

http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html

[docone31]

Josh,
We gotta start somewhere.
I have done my share.
Did you ingot all of the weights?
What is left?
Fluxing is adding a material that acts as a flux. In the case of lead, I use sawdust. Simple as that. If you got the material from a garage, it is probably old stuff. Not too much zinc in the melt. A lot of folks do not like zinc. I use it, but like it evenly spread out.
My best alloys were combined melt from wheel weight buckets. When I cast, I put Kitty Litter on top of the melt
If zinc is an issue, and you are not sure of the mix, you can remelt the ingots going slowly up the temp zone. Zinc needs a lot of heat and remains viscous untill the melt gets to the top of the zone. If you remelt your mix, and then slowly melt it, the majority of the zinc will congeal as oatmeal on top of the melt.
If I were in your shoes, with the information at hand, I would proceed to the next step.
Making lube! I feel pan lubing is best. Once you have your melt/cast pot, and mold, you will be able to pan lube, and size.
Drive a fishing sinker down the barrel of the target firearm. Measure the groove depth. Your sizer will be .002 larger than the measurement.
I made about 10lbs of lube. It took me a while to find the mix. Now I have a lot.
Smells good also.

[joshmb1982]

thanks for the replies.

i melted all of it over a camp fire in my back yard so i have no idea what temps i was looking at. i did scoop al the gunk off the top of the molten lead(was told this was the tin and antimony mostly? ) and i think i found the zink as there was a lot of stuff that didnt melt as easy and while i may have mixed some in i probly got 90%+ of it out.

whats pan lubing? i didnt know you had to lube anything. im going to a gunshow this weekend and going to see if i can find any books on this stuff.

[BSkerj]

Josh,
I started casting about 6 months ago. Didn't have a clue until I got on this site. Read the sticky's, ask any question, and watch a little you tube and before you know it you will reap the rewards! Also, there seems to be someone in the chat room at any given time. This was a great resource if I had a question right in the middle of casting and needed it answered ASAP.Good Luck and be very careful!

[Mk42gunner]

Josh,

We all had to start somewhere. Casting bullets is a skill, not a talent; skills can be learned.

Read the stickies here, use the search function, and ask questions.

Pick up a copy of Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook, it will have the basics in it.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Goatlips]

Hey Josh,

You might want to have a look at my "just starting" site which will add illustration to the advice given above:

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/smelting.html

have a look at the pan lubing section too. When I started in on this stuff I found that pictures helped me more'n anything. :castmine:

And Welcome!

Goatlips

[lwknight]

Josh, You can probably salvage more lead/tin/antimony from the junk that you scrapped off if you flux it. If you even want to mess with it that is.
You can get some lead melted and put a good bit of junk back in the pot and add a teaspoon or less of wax of any type after everything is hot and stir it in.
It will auto ignite! Normal thing. It will scare you if unexpected.
Your dross should skim off more powdery than clumpy. That way you know that you got all the goody out of it.
If I had 2 pounds of dross I would forget it. It it were 15 pounds of dross, i would try to reclaim some of it by fluxing.

[chemist308]

Long story short, what you need to is take your wheel weights, melt them in your back yard in a pot you won't be using for casting bullets, and use a slotted spoon to skim off the wheel weight clips and zinc weights that float to the top. Then introduce some wax from an emergency candle and stir that into the mix--I just stirred it with the back of a really long candle, and it smoked a lot. SOMEONE MORE EXPERIENCED PLEASE SPEAK TO THE SAFETY OF MY FLUXING METHOD. Then stir the lead and ladle it into muffin tins.

As far as different allows and mixes, these guys here know quite a bit more than me.

[joshmb1982]

im going to look for the lyman cast bullet book next time i get to a store.

so after i flux the melted led/whatever else, the stuff the floats up on top should be powdery? most of what i scooped of looked kinda like cottage cheese. i have an old cast iron ladle with a sopouut on one side i was using to scoop it off.

i have about half a bucket of this gunk it would be worth it heat it back up and get more out of it?

thanks for the site goatlips ill be sure to check it out.

[joshmb1982]

also i was melteing the WWs in a small steel pot with a smout on 2 sides so i was pouring right from the melting pot into my ingots. if that has any effect on anything.

[jonk]

You said you don't know you have to lube anything... cast bullets require lube either tumble coated on or squirted into the grease grooves on the bullet.

From gunbroker's forums? Welcome.

[Cherokee]

Welcome Josh - you have just started so lots of learning going on. You will get the hang of it. I would put the dross back and try to reclaim some of it, for learnng about fluxing if nothing else.

[Echo]

Welcome, Josh - and +1 for reading ALL the Stickies! I've been casting for 40 years, and am still learning.

It sounds like you made a good start with your smelting (really rendering, to be accurate). Fluxing is, as was stated above, moving the goodies back into the melt by capturing the oxygen from the oxides. For example - I use a paint stirring paddle from Ace Hdw to flux my casting pot. The heat from the alloy causes the wood to char, the carbon there attracts the oxygen from the tin oxide and lead oxide that were formed by contact with the air, returning the tin and lead back to the melt, and generating carbon dioxide (OMG - contributing to Global Warming! Don't tell Al, please). The flux can be any carbon-bearing material. Paraffin, bullet lube, wood sticks (cedar is nice - smells good!), old candle stubs, sawdust, whatever. After complete fluxing, you will probably end up with a grey powder on top of the melt that is the final residue, and is easily scooped off. I use old candle wax, and an old wood dowel, to flux my rendering dutch oven.

When rendering, use the lowest heat that will melt the WW's. That way, the zinckies will not be incorporated. Use a slotted spoon from Salvation Army store to scoop off the clips and zinckies. And keep the sticky WW's separate - they are basically pure lead, although newer ones are made of zinc, or iron. A good pair of dikes will readily show you which are which. The lead stickies should be rendered for a supply of basically pure lead, to be used in the future. The hard ones should be returned to the salvage yard.

Or you could just melt all the lead WW's together - that OK, too

Again, welcome to the addiction.

[Tazman1602]

Welcome Josh!

First you've done nothing but give us all a good laugh ---- and we ain't laughing AT you we're laughing WITH you. There's not a soul here that doesn't have a similiar story. Just when you get setup again and ready to cast, ask questions, peruse posts, and any of us will help if we can.

Now ya' need to change your forum name to "CampfireCaster" [GRIN]

Way to dive in with both feet man' congrats!!!

Art

[bigboredad]

Hey Josh

don't forget good old youtube there is some good info on there and it helps being able to see how others do it they are all different but same basics and goatlips articles in the stickies helped me out a ton

[joshmb1982]

yep. same joshmb1982 from gunbroker.

the dross is all the **** i scooped off the top correct? if it warms up a lil ill probly start another fire in a few days and see what else i can get out of it.

where can you get tin and antimony? does it come in ingots?

you guys can laugh al you want. im sure get ya rolling with some lame brain stunt ill try now and again.:bigsmyl2:

goatlips's site was pretty informative. ive got a fairly thick skull in some aspects and the pictures definatly make it easier to understand without questions.

thanks for all the input guys.

[Phat Man Mike]

:cbpour::redneck:read the stickys here and let it all soak in !!!! it's fun not a chore ! [smilie=l: and no question is to late or stupid !!! just be careful and safe[smilie=f:

[docone31]

Josh, we ain't laughing at you. I bet a lot of us are looking back at the first time we made lead melt.
You ain't lived untill you get a good long visit by the Tinsel Fairy! A fun person she is.
If you use a bottom pour pot, wait untill you get to unclog it.
Fun stuff that you will one day take for granted.
Welcome.

[kbstenberg]

Hey Josh welcome to you from another newbie. 6 months an counting. there is never an end to new information here an everyone is more than willing to help.
Echo was spot on on his descriptions an explanations. The only thing i could add is when you are stirring the melted lead with whatever (stick or spoon) scrape the sides an bottom of the pot to dislodge any bad stuff clinging to the pot. The slotted spoon is to skim the impurities.
Be extremal cautious about getting any form of moisture (cold drink/ water/ Coffey/ condensation) on the melted lead. IT WILL EXPLODE most of the lead all over. This also includes putting a cold lead ingot into a melted pot of lead.
If you don't already know. You can get to the stickies by putting the computer cursor on the cast boolit logo at the top left corner of your screen an left click.
The metallic stuff you initially skimmed off of your melt mite be good metals. So if you do remelt the dross you skimmed earlier it mite be important to add whatever you re-salvage back into the lead you already ingoted. Just a thought. Its only worth 1cent because of I'm so new.

[Tazman1602]

you guys can laugh al you want. im sure get ya rolling with some lame brain stunt ill try now and again.:bigsmyl2:thanks for all the input guys.

Dude you should have seen me 30 years ago trying to get that roll of quarters to melt so I could have "silver bullets".................

Art

[waksupi]

Be extremal cautious about getting any form of moisture (cold drink/ water/ Coffey/ condensation) on the melted lead. IT WILL EXPLODE most of the lead all over.


Correction. You can turn a hose on a pot of molten lead, and it will not explode. However, get one drop of water under the surface, and it will. Be sure you lead is dry when being added to the pot.The surface tension of lead will not allow water dropping on top to penetrate and create a steam explosion.

[joshmb1982]

Dude you should have seen me 30 years ago trying to get that roll of quarters to melt so I could have "silver bullets".................

Art

thanks man you just made me spit my chili up on my computer table. [smilie=l:

[docone31]

I agree also.
Also, get one drop of oil below the surface. Poom! Tinsel Fairy!
Getting liquids on the surface, it has somewhere to go. Getting it below the surface, and the expansion of gasses will go to the weaker point. Usually where the lead is thinnest.
It is real important, to preheat the alloy before allowing it to submerge.
I keep a layer of Kitty Litter on top of my Lee 20 pounder. I can put my ingot on the Litter and it will go into the melt slower than if I press it into the melt.
Always have an exit when casting. Be able to get away from any melt. You can always return to contain it.
Fresh Air!!! It is good to breathe.
Mainly, just use your head. Remember, Mr. Murphy, the famous law maker and philosopher always hangs out with us. He gets bored easily!
He is crafty, tricky, and enjoys suprise!
Go slow.
The only stupid question is the one not asked and acted upon!
We are here to help. If we do not know, we will tell you where to find out.

[frankmako]

when i started casting many mango seasons ago i also had many questions. it was back in the days when there was no internet/computers to asked questions. you can find the answers here and other sites. take your time when casting and read all you can find about it. think about it this way, it is only ww and you can not mess them up.

[303Guy]

Now that I've stopped laughing, joshmb1982, nothing to do with molten lead but moltel aluminum, if poured onto damp rust will detonate with the force of an atom bomb! A test was being conducted to find out what was causing such destructive explosions in the aluminum casting industry (they cast into a water curtain) and eventually they got the stuff to detonate but the results were so unexpected, it blew the equipment away and violently shook the distance mounted camera! Whole Remelts had been destroyed in such blasts.

Just out of interest.

[lwknight]

303guy, Isnt aluminumfilings and iron oxide what tannerite is made from? hehehe LOL

[joshmb1982]

i thought shavings of aluminum, magnesium, and rust created a type of thermite? stuff that could burn through an engine block.

[303Guy]

Isnt aluminumfilings and iron oxide what tannerite is made from?Serious?

Nah. You're having one on me!:mrgreen:

They do use granulated aluminum foil to 'enhance' dynamite. I wasn't told but I would assume it would be mixed with a nitrate.

[303Guy]

I thought shavings of aluminum, magnesium, and rust created a type of thermite? stuff that could burn through an engine block.Seriously?:!:

Magnesium burns pretty good in oxygen, think flash bulbs.

[StarMetal]

Seriously?:!:

Magnesium burns pretty good in oxygen, think flash bulbs.

Magnesium burns pretty good in the open atmosphere too. The fumes are deadly deadly deadly and the stuff is hard to put out.

Joe

[joshmb1982]

what do you guys pay for WWs? i called a local scrap yard and they said they get $.30/lb here for lead. wouldnt that be for pure lead without all the steel and zink and **** in it. they shop i got mine from let me take it home to weigh and said to stop by later to pay him.

[303Guy]

The fumes are deadly deadly deadly ...WHAT!:?::shock:

We used to burn the stuff as a demo in the school science lab! :holysheep

I just paid two dollars a kg for scap lead pipe - which I have just finished casting into sinker shaped ingots.[smilie=1:
(That's 2 Kiwi dollars per 2.2lbs).

[StarMetal]

WHAT!:?::shock:

We used to burn the stuff as a demo in the school science lab! :holysheep

You get excellent fire training in the Navy. Being lots of parts on planes are made of magnesium they cover it burning pretty well. They told us to stay down wind from it and if possible push the plane overboard, where it would continue to burn underwater as the magnesium draws the oxygen out of the water. It that wasn't possible cover it with sand. But they cautioned us severely about the fumes and the heat of the stuff.

The fume cause Metal Fume Fever. Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever

Joe

[303Guy]

... if possible push the plane overboard, where it would continue to burn underwater as the magnesium draws the oxygen out of the water ...Double WHAT!!:?::?::shock::shock: Holy cow!

[lwknight]

Yes, magnesium burns under water. Magnesium sucks the oxygen away from water leaving hydrogen free to burn again. Its like the greek fire. More water means more fire.
There was an old lawn mower in a shed fire one time on a fire call. We found the mower enging when water got onto it and it really started burning brilliantly.
Only way to put it out is foam or just cover it with dirt. Well maybe a deluge of water could take away enough heat so that it would stop burning but, my fire hose did not do that.