357 Boolit over 2400 for whitetails

[awaveritt]

I want to load up some 357 loads suitable for <100yd whitetail shots. This will be for the Marlin 1894c that's coming down my chimney on Christmas day. I just bought a pound of 2400 for this purpose. Right now, the only suitable boolit I have is the Lee TL-358-158-SWC. I don't own a 357 handgun, so this load will only be used in the rifle. Any thoughts on this combination or should I consider one of the heavier boolits, assuming they function well in the little Marlin?

[mpmarty]

I'd go with a 200 gr boolit at as fast as I could push it. 2400 should work well.

[Blammer]

I've had no luck with TL designs so I'm sorry I cannot comment on that boolit.

As far as wt and style? That one should do just fine!

I'd start with 13gr of 2400 as that works well with my Lee 358-158 RF.

[BrianB]

Lee also makes a 158 gr. flat point bullet that looks a little better for hunting purposes.
A 180 grain bullet might be even better, but good luck finding a mold in stock.
Either one will work (my son has killed deer with both), I just feel a little more comfortable with the heavier bullets.

I recently got an NOE three cavity .360, 180GC mold, but I have yet to get some loaded and to the range...too many things going on. I'll post something when I do.

[awaveritt]

Anyone have any experience with this boolit as far as feeding/function in a Marlin carbine? Seems like this would be a terrific deer boolit with the large meplat and the extra weight. Where does loading data come from for boolits this heavy?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=724735

[Wally]

I have a Marlin 1895C. It does not stabilze heavy bullets all that well...but you can use the Lyman 170 grain Keith with 2400 powder--it will give you a powerful & accurate load. However I would not use it for deer at 100 yards---maybe ouit to 50 yards or so.

[Cactus Farmer]

I load Lymans 358156 in my rifle loads. 2400 is without a doubt the right choice for rifle loads. Blue dot might be some better for short pistols. I load and shoot both, but my dedicated rifle ammo is 2400. 15 grains is a good start. Find what shoots well and stick with it. I'm a Texan too and know the WTs down here aren't as big as they should be. Solids are as effective as HPs on deer size targets. HPs cause more meat loss. I like to eat the tasty little dudes too. No need to waste anymore than necessary. :coffee:

[awaveritt]

Wally:
...but you can use the Lyman 170 grain Keith with 2400 powder--it will give you a powerful & accurate load.

Thanks Wally. I thought I had read (maybe in Glenn Fryxell's articles) where the Keith SWC would not feed thru the Marlin in 357 cases-but would in 38 special cases, but it obviously does in yours, right? Is this the equivalent of the Lyman 358429?

[Wally]

Yes it does feed in my Marlin and it is the 359429 bullet loaded into .357 Mag brass. My Marlin is from 1978....

I recently bought a Freechex .38 Caliber Gas Check maker tool--Last month I made up a batch of the 358156 bullets and fired in the marlin--they worked beautifully and will be my favorite bullet in the carbine from now on. Now that I can make my own gas checks I can use them for the lightest to the heaviest loads... They are the most accurate bullet in the Marlin for me. Next year I will experiment using the 358429 with a reverse gas check just to see how it works.

[imashooter2]

You could feed the 358429 if you modify the carrier. There are instructions in the gunsmithing seciton.

Your best bet, however, is to buy one of NOE's 180 grain RNFP gas check designs. These can easily be pushed over 1,700 fps with Lil' Gun or H110 or about 1,500-1,600 with Alliant 2400.

[awaveritt]

Cactus Farmer:
I'm a Texan too and know the WTs down here aren't as big as they should be. Solids are as effective as HPs on deer size targets. HPs cause more meat loss. I like to eat the tasty little dudes too. No need to waste anymore than necessary.

I agree. Actually, being just an occasional hunter, I don't presently own a rifle in a "proper" deer caliber. However, in salute of my minimalist spirit, I'm captivated by the idea of my little 223 bolt action or my new Marlin 357 with cast boolits being adaptable for the occasional trip to the deer woods.

I've been shouted off of other forums for suggesting that the 223 with a Nosler partition J-word would be adequate for whitetails and I suspect there are just as many that will have a problem with the 357. But until I invest in a heavier caliber, I feel like either gun would cleanly take deer, especially the scrawny little boogers here in central Texas. BTW I've never killed a deer beyond 50 yds, so I'm not talking about stretching the round's capabilities.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with Cactus Farmer also.

In the Marlin rilfe a GC'd cast bullet allows excellent accuracy at higher velocities than with a PB'd cast bullet. The GC'd bullet can also be cast of softer alloys allowing for expansion and quicker killing. The 358156 as recommended is an excellent choice for the .357 in 6"+ revolvers, Contenders and rifles. The 15 gr load of 2400 under a 358156 cast of 50/50 WW/lead will give 1800+ fps in 18 an 20" Marlin Carbines. This allows for an effective 150 if not 200 yard capability. Another plus is since it is a SWC designed for revolvers feeding will not be an issue when magnum cases are crimped in in the front crimp grrove. Suggest starting at 13.5 gr 2400 and working up to 15 gr in 1/2 gr increments with 358156 in your Marlin.

BTW; Merry Christmas

Larry Gibson

[Wally]

I might mention--I size all bullets for my Marlin to .359"....it seems to like them on the big size--it has a Micro-groove barrel.

[randyrat]

I at one time asked the experts at Alliant powders how much 2400 i should used in a GP100 under a 180 gr lead gas checked bullet. they wrote back 10-12 grains.

[bobthenailer]

i have the lee gb 180 gr wfn gc and it shoots and feeds great in my marlin . i use the same bullet without gas gheck installed with 4.5 gr tight group for a little ove 1000 fps as well as 12.0 surplus 820 for 1400 fps and 15.5 lil gun for a little over 1600 fps all with excellent accuracy

[fecmech]

I have a friend who has killed 8 deer in the past 6 yrs with 358156 out of a .357 Herret contender. All have been 1 shot kills with no recovered bullets.

[EDK]

Go to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 Marlins. Lots of info there.

Most all of the 158 round nose/flat points work in the little Marlin. A lot of folks like heavier...the NIGHT OWL ENTERPRISES 360 180 WFN is my current favorite. BUT I've put a bunch of 358156, 358665 and other designs through my 1894s over the years.

Conventional wisdom on ALL the Marlins is harder alloy, higher velocity, larger diameter and usually a gas check. John Taffin did an article on 357 rifle and pistol combo loading in a recent AMERICAN HANDGUNNER...go to their site and look for web blast for more specifics.

Mr. Taffin also made a statement to the effect that "a 357 lever gun is the third most useful firearm you can own...Number one and two being a 22 pistol and a 22 levergun." I prefer my 44s, but I have to agree that he is right on this one!

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

[1Shirt]

If you can find someone with a ranch dog mold for the 190 w/wide flat nose GC, over 10-12 gr. 2400 as suggested think you would have a real winner.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Echo]

+1 for the -156 boolit. I don't have a .357 lever gun, but the -156 over 15 grs 2400 works wonderful in my old model BH. The -156 has been a standard since Ray Thompson designed it.

[awaveritt]

Echo:

+1 for the -156 boolit. I don't have a .357 lever gun, but the -156 over 15 grs 2400 works wonderful in my old model BH. The -156 has been a standard since Ray Thompson designed it.

Is this Lee boolit http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=263780 an exact copy of Lyman's 358156 or something similar? Anyone have any experience with this one?

I will someday own some Lyman molds, but for now am trying to keep the costs down in my new hobby and Lee seems to fill the bill.

[imashooter2]

FWIW, I found the 358156 to be dismal in my 1894C. I've heard many accolades for the design, but my rifle hates it.

[fecmech]

Echo:


Is this Lee boolit http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=263780 an exact copy of Lyman's 358156 or something similar? Anyone have any experience with this one?

I will someday own some Lyman molds, but for now am trying to keep the costs down in my new hobby and Lee seems to fill the bill.

I don't think any deer would ever notice the difference between the 156 or any of the other many swc designs out there if you do your part on placement. The lee bullet you mention looks pretty close to the 358156.

[lylejb]

I'd start with 13gr of 2400 as that works well with my Lee 358-158 RF.

good advice I think.

I've used this boolit in revolvers, and am happy with the accuracy. The larger meplat would hit hard, and the rounded nose should feed well. I wouldn't hesitate to use this on smaller deer.

midway has this mould in stock for $20 in 2 cav

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=188719

I like it, and think you will too.

[geargnasher]

Awww, now ya'll know ya gotta have at least a .300 Win. Mag to bring down Texas Whitetail, doncha? You'll never bring one down with that wimpy little .357 carbine.....

Sound familiar?

People who can shoot and really know guns would never scoff you for what you are trying to do.

Work up some loads with the Lee boolit and 2400 you have, figure your sights, trajectory, and make sure you can hit what you're aiming at. I'll bet you a shiny dollar you won't find that boolit from a broadside shot out to 150 yards. If the boolit travelled another mile after going through the deer it wouldn't be any more dead.

Gear

[Al_sway]

I load the Lee 158 gr SWC GC in my .357 Marlin, with 2400. I am using the book load of 2400 and I get about 1800+ fps. Good accuracy as well. I would not hesitate to use this for deer out to 100 yards or so.

[gon2shoot]

I load the Lee RFN over 13 1/5gr of 2400 for my daughter to practice with and a 180 to hunt with. She killed her deer with the 158, who knew .:veryconfu

[vanilla_gorilla]

I don't yet have a rifle to shoot my .357s out of, but I hope to have one soon. With any luck, it will do well with the same load I use with my pistols...358429 and about 14 grains of 2400.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/casting045.jpg

[imashooter2]

I don't yet have a rifle to shoot my .357s out of, but I hope to have one soon. With any luck, it will do well with the same load I use with my pistols...358429 and about 14 grains of 2400.



Are you rounding off the edge of the meplat in the sizer or the seater?