Casting without water dropping?

[chris in va]

I'd like to try casting some of my 9mm TC boolits without water dropping to see if they will 'obturate' better in my guns. Right now they're keyholing pretty badly.

How exactly do I go about doing this? Drop them into a towel?

And yes I will slug the bores once I can get some lead sinkers at the store.

[Ricochet]

Drop them on a towel, and don't let them bump into each other. WAIT. Takes them a lot longer to air cool than to cool in a bucket of water.

[runfiverun]

i just dump mine in a pile don't seem to dent them much.
your 9 might like 357 better i've shot some in mine at 358 which seemed to help. slower powder seems to help also.

[arcticbreeze]

I don't cast 9mm but I do cast for 40 s&w and 10mm and I no longer water drop any boolits including rifle boolits pushed to 2100 fps even in MG barrels with zero leading. If the boolit fits properly air cooled ww are plenty hard enough. Most of the time if leading does occur then hardness is usually not the issue. I just drop them on a towel as already said and as they cool while I am casting I push the to the side in pile. And as already also said they stay hot quite a while.

[Alchemist]

Get an old Army blanket (wool), cut it in half, then fold it twice. It'll be about 2' square and 4 layers deep. Nice and soft, and wool doesn't burn easily. Start dropping your boolits at the far edge and work towards yourself. When you get close to the edge, rake the boolits in the back into a pile and start over. That will let your boolits cool and keep 'em from getting dinged up. I've been doing it that way since 1982 with good results. I haven't gotten around to trying water dropping yet.

[Edubya]

I'd like to try casting some of my 9mm TC boolits without water dropping to see if they will 'obturate' better in my guns. Right now they're keyholing pretty badly.

How exactly do I go about doing this? Drop them into a towel?

And yes I will slug the bores once I can get some lead sinkers at the store.
You can use a soft cast lead, i.e., stick on WW to slug your bore chamber.
When I cast air cooled boolits, I lay a towel down and fill the surfce, fold over and fill up the surface again. Repeat until you're tired or you have all of the boolits that you want.
You also might want to mix some of that soft lead with some clip ons (50/50), plus add a couple ounces of tin.
Whatever you do, keep a log! This will save you many hours and head scratching later on.
EW

[badgeredd]

I don't cast 9mm but I do cast for 40 s&w and 10mm and I no longer water drop any boolits including rifle boolits pushed to 2100 fps even in MG barrels with zero leading. If the boolit fits properly air cooled ww are plenty hard enough. Most of the time if leading does occur then hardness is usually not the issue. I just drop them on a towel as already said and as they cool while I am casting I push the to the side in pile. And as already also said they stay hot quite a while.

+1 on all. I've found that hardness is not needed for pistol boolits. Proper fit is king. I shoot may rifle boolits at 2000-2100 fps that are only air cooled.

Edd

[imashooter2]

Get a soda flat or similar short sided box. Fold an old towel in 4 and place in the flat. Drop your boolits on the towel. When the towel gets full, pick it up and let the boolits fall into the flat. Place the towel back down on top of the boolits and repeat as necessary.

[Char-Gar]

A couple of thoughts on the subject at hand;

1. There is no need for a bullet any harder than air cooled wheel weight, in any non-magnum handgun, certainly not in a 9mm.

2. If I had bullets keyholing my first thought would not be to jack with the method of cooling bullets.

3. Yes, just fold up and old towel and drop the bullets on them. Put the towel in a box and when it get covered just grab the edge of the towel and roll the bullet off the towel into the non-towel part of the box.

[wills]

I have found if you drop boolits on the concrete shop floor, it is not good for them. A folded towel works better.

[lwknight]

Amazing, The water dropping thing is so pervasive that some didn't even know how about air dropping.
20 years ago few people even heard of water dropping.
It is a great money saver to not have to add antimony to get harder boolits though.
How times change.

[knifemaker]

Chris;
I shoot IDPA and cast my bullets for practice in my 45 acp. I think you may have more of a problem with the bullet being under size. I mix my lead 50/50 wheelweight to pure lead and have never had a problem with leading of the barrel with that mix to over 1,000 FPS. you can try the softer mix to see if it will upset enough in the barrel to overcome the size problem if it is only 1-2 thousands. My bullets are sized 1 thousand over groove dia. on my match barrel and I can get groups down to 1.5 inches at 25 yards with my match grade 45 ACP at 825 FPS in velocity. Slug that barrel and size your bullets 1-2 thousand over the groove dia. and I bet you will see a big improvement in accuracy. I use the 50/50 mix for pistol bullets and towel drop them. I only water quench when I am casting straight wheel weight for rifle bullets that will be going over 1700 FPS. or hot 44 mag loads in pistols.
After I learned to slug my barrels and size my bullets 1-2 thousand over groove dia, my accuracy picked up leaps and bounds and no problem with leading of the barrel in 6 different guns from pistol and rifle calibers.

[RSOJim]

I agree with Wills. Jim

[armyrat1970]

I'd like to try casting some of my 9mm TC boolits without water dropping to see if they will 'obturate' better in my guns. Right now they're keyholing pretty badly.

How exactly do I go about doing this? Drop them into a towel?

And yes I will slug the bores once I can get some lead sinkers at the store.

My first thought would be if they are keyholing they are to small for your bore. What distance are you firing them at?

[Rocky Raab]

And I agree with Chargar.

Find the part of your brain where "Harder is better" is stored, and erase that file. It is a virus that will screw up your reloading.

[Cherokee]

This is what I do - A box with old carpet in the bottom for cushion. I never water drop. My 9mm likes 356 to 358 bullets but I mostly use 356.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee102/DCS44256/Reloading/Casting06.jpg

[MT Gianni]

I use old work shirts that are either all cotton or fire resistant. Do not use polyester or synthetics unless you want the print pattern on your bullets. I have water dropped some 22 boolits but that is about all these days.

[chris in va]

Unfortunately I have no way of 'sizing' my boolits right now. They are the .357" TC tumble lube 9mm. Even if I did slug my barrel, nothing I can do to change the size of them. I was told it's possible they may be too hard and not have enough charge, but I'm already driving them about 3/4 max on the charge grains of 231.

[HeavyMetal]

Chris:
Your kinda being "obtuse" on your load info.

So I will suggest two things: Post your load info completely including as cast boolit weight.

Then examine to spots: the base of your boolits and the crown of your pistol barrel. My experience has shown me that , mostly, when boolits keyhole they are tipping at they moment the exit the barrel. A boolit base filled out unevenly will do this and any nick or dent in the crown will do this as well. Be aware that crown issues show up more drasticly with lead than Jacketed.

Boolit size may be your problem, but unless you have a really wierd 9 357 should get it done. Next question which nine are you shooting?

[Edubya]

chris, if you are asking for specific information you're gonna have to tell us why you're not liking the ones that you are using. Okay, you said that they were key-holing; what powder are you using and what load? At what distance have you noticed the tumbling? Is your barrel leading?
If I load too high of a load, I will sometimes get key-holing with certain bullets. What mould or boolit are you using? There are a lot of things that can affect the flight and the more specific you are with your question, the more specific we can be with helping you.
EW

[John Guedry]

Why water drop unless you really really need harder boolits. I've never done it yet and see no need to.

[imashooter2]

Why water drop unless you really really need harder boolits. I've never done it yet and see no need to.

Because it's faster and easier. The drop area never gets full and the boolits never get damaged.

[markinalpine]

I use folded cotton scrap from old bluejeans, four layers, in a metal paint tray. I drop the boolits at the upper end, and after I cast the next batch and cut the sprue, the previous batch is scooted down a little by tugging on the upper end of the rags, then the next batch is dropped, and so on. Using a Lee 6 banger, I've knocked out 600 or 700 in a couple of hours, by which time I need a break anyway.

Mark :coffeecom

[jlchucker]

I've always done what Ricochet does. Drop them on a folded up old towel as I cast.

[Char-Gar]

I "water droped" some 452423 bullets once, many years ago. I tore apart a good old Lyman 45 trying to size those bullets down from .455 to .452. It took me several days in the shop to rehab that lube size machine. It was then I decided I didn't need granite bullets.

Those raw bullet hung around for a few years, and the I bought a Lee sizing die and used my Rockchucker press for the job. It worked well, but I still want no part of those bullets. Don't need em..don't want em!

[1Shirt]

I water drop all my rifle blts, and a fair percentage of pistol blts as well if they are for target work. Air drop for hunting, or two part or nose soften via Paco Kelly method. I always size (and usually lube) the same day that I water drop befor they really start to harden up. I almost screwed up an old Lyman 45 like Charger on a batch that were a week older and definately hard as h*?#. I now have a bunch of Lyman push thru dies, but I use them primarily for when I use mule snot lube after I size and check them then lube and then resize(cause they just look better. If I don't have time to size them on the same day I cast, I don't cast on that day.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[fredj338]

Because it's faster and easier. The drop area never gets full and the boolits never get damaged.
Not really. Every 40-50, move them off & repeat. Speed is not compromised at all air cooling. I've only been doing it that way for 30+yrs. The folded towel is not even needed. I drop straight into a wooden box w/ my Magmacaster. They bullets are fine. They are hard enough to drop the 6"-8" into the box of other bullets. Oh yeah, any "time" you may save water dropping is spent retrieving them & spreading them out to dry, JMO.

[arcticbreeze]

Unfortunately I have no way of 'sizing' my boolits right now. They are the .357" TC tumble lube 9mm. Even if I did slug my barrel, nothing I can do to change the size of them.

The reason to slug your barrel is if the groove diameter is bigger then your boolit diameter then a sizer won't help anyway. chances are your boolit is too small, not too big. It will save you money because you won't have to blindly try many variables with zero results. If you find your boolits are too small then you are just spinning your wheels. Nothing else will change your results. If you post more detail you might get a real suggestion and not as many guesses. Example if you are using Lee aluminum mold you can Leement your mold to get a couple more thousanths bigger boolit.


but I'm already driving them about 3/4 max on the charge grains of 231.

You did not what weight boolit but the other thing that comes to mind is 3/4 of max charge is way under min load data with any W231 data that I have seen.

[chris in va]

3/4...let me clarify. Min is 2.9gr of 231, max is 4.4. I'm loading at 4gr.

125gr TC boolit.

Interestingly, my carbine started shooting a lot better once the barrel got some lead in it. The first 50 rounds or so were completely off, the next 200 or so were a lot tighter.

[Bret4207]

Okay, several things in play here. First off, what size does your mould drop the boolits at? What is the inside diameter of a case mouth fired with a full power jacketed load? What kind of alloy are you using? What kind of seater and what are you doing as far as seating goes that might be damaging the boolit?

Measuring the inside diameter of a case mouth will give you an idea of the max size you can aim for. If it's .356 then you won't be able to go any larger, if it's .359 you have room to play. Without a bit more info it's hard to give an accurate suggestion that's worth much.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I just used some jacketed recovered range lead, and cast some boolits, tap them lightly with a hammer on the nose, bumps them up a few thousand, then use them to slug your barrel . . . if your able to recover any of those you already shot that are not damaged you can remelt them. But don't try to slug with water quenched, as they won't completely fill the rifling. . . .:oops:

If you do buy sinkers atleast with the extras you could either go fishing, or add them to your melt . . .

I have also found taking close up digital photos help, as once they are "blown up" to computer screen size it easier to see defects, and you can also use a site simular to photobucket (thats what I use) to post pictures for us to see:razz:

What gun are you using?

What model mold?

:cbpour:

[Big Dave]

Not as common as they used to be but an ironing board cover is great for air dropping. that silver colored material doesn't scorch and the padded backer is plenty of cushion. Think Wal Mart still carrys them. If wifely even has an iron, buy her a new cover and use the old one for lining your drop box.

[Jeffery8mm]

Would it negate the air dropping by wetting the towel a bit??
Jeff

[jdgabbard]

Honestly I've never seen much of a difference between how the boolits perform. Water dropped or dropped onto a towel. I don't waste my time with water dropping anymore...

[arcticbreeze]

Would it negate the air dropping by wetting the towel a bit??
Jeff

It is funny you asked that because I have thought about that myself. At first it was because I was worried about the towel burning. I have since realized it is a non issue. As far as your question goes I can only speculate but IMO you would be quickly cooling one side of the boolit and slowly cooling the other. Would this cause an issue? I am not sure but I decided to use a dry towel because of this thinking. Again I am only speculating but that is my opinion for what it is worth.

Marc

[partsman]

can someone explain what slugging the barrel means, i have seen it allot on here lately but have never heard of it before...............

[arcticbreeze]

can someone explain what slugging the barrel means, i have seen it allot on here lately but have never heard of it before...............

Short answer it means to take a soft an oversized lead slug driven into the barrel to determine actual groove diameter. There are procedures posted somewhere here for doing so. You can use that same "slug" pushed slowly to feel for any constrictions. You can also throat slug to get actual chamber dimensions. With J bullets it is not as important but with cast boolits it can be the difference between a leaded inaccurate gun and a sweet shooting accurate gun that is cleaner after shooting lead than jacketed.

Here are a couple of videos on Youtube. There a varying opinions on the best procedure but this will give you the jest of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR_WiL8Dkgw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErFaJlUVs1Y

[GabbyM]

What did you measure your bullets as cast from your mould with?
Are you using a Lee factory crimp die?

Whether you are starting with undersized bullets or sizing them down inside the case during loading your issue at hand is undersized bullets.

You need to look at how you are flaring the case mouth and your crimp set up. Even a standard taper crimp die when adjusted to low can size your bullet in some cases. The Lee factory crimp die will size them as it is designed to do just that. Set it to far down and you'll have undersized bullets. I"m pretty sure you'll find some crimp dies out their that won't let any bullet over .356" stay that big.

You need to let that alox dry at least a week with two weeks being better. Before loading them into the cases.

In case all that wasn't clear what I'm stating is you may think you are shooting .357” bullets but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut you're not.