Working up .44 Mag load

[ghh3rd]

I went to the range today and fired 45 boolits of nine different loads of W296. The loads ranged from 18 gr through 22 gr in .5 gr increments.

I was using iron sights, and my eyes struggle to seem them clearly, so I'm not sure how valid this is toward grouping to determine the best load. The groups don't seem to tighetn up, and widen as they reach and then pass an optimum load as I had hoped them to.

I'm ordering an Ultradot tomorrow, so perhaps I'll be able to get more reliable results.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/ghh3rd11/Lee310grW296FelixlubeDec62009.jpg

Randy

[44man]

What boolit?????

[ghh3rd]

Sorry for the omission. Lee 310gr, from WW, air cooled, gas check, Felix Lube hand applied, dropping at 430 and run through a 430 sizer to get the extra hand rubbed lube off. Gas checks had to be pounded on with care as they dont attach by going through the sizer. Grouping on 25 yard targets.

[lwknight]

The groups opening up as you progressed could be the shooters eyes or arms getting tired or the barrel getting dirty. Maybe try it backwards next time to see what happens.

[ghh3rd]

The groups opening up as you progressed could be the shooters eyes or arms getting tired or the barrel getting dirty. Maybe try it backwards next time to see what happens.

Actually I thought they would close up as I got toward the best load, and then open up as I passed it.

[Jumping Frog]

I was using iron sights, and my eyes struggle to seem them clearly,
If your eyes are aging and you now need bifocals or reading glasses, you should give the "Merit Optical Attachment for Handgun Shooting" (http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html) a try. Makes a huge difference for me. The product has been sold for decades, so it works for a lot of people.

[outdoorfan]

Sorry for the omission. Lee 310gr, from WW, air cooled, gas check, Felix Lube hand applied, dropping at 430 and run through a 430 sizer to get the extra hand rubbed lube off. Gas checks had to be pounded on with care as they dont attach by going through the sizer. Grouping on 25 yard targets.

Instead of pounding the gc's on, I used to run the boolit through the Lee sizer base first (no lube on this pass) to get the check on nice and straight. Then it would go through a second time nose first with the lube on it.

[ghh3rd]

run the boolit through the Lee sizer base first
I wish I could do this to get the checks on, but the boolits are dropping at .430 to .4305 and I don't want to size any smaller. The only reason I am using a sizer at all is to squeege off the excess lube that I have put on by hand. I had some that I rejected because the the gas checks didn't look quite perfect, so I'll use these for my 12 yrd old son to try with some light loads.

I just discovered that I had no leading :razz:. It looked like I had a little, but one pass of Hoppes and it was gone, so I'm sure it was just some residual Felix lube. I was a bit concerned that any leading would cause subsequent rounds to be less accurate while testing.

I'll try this test again once I receive the red dot. Then, I think I'll have more confidence that any larger groups are the load, and not my eyes :veryconfu working to see the sights.

[outdoorfan]

I guess I don't understand why running a .430 boolit through a .430 sizer is going to size it down.

Oops, I just re-read your post which says that the boolits may be as big as .4305.

But, it's nothing to open the Lee sizer up to whatever diameter you want. Only takes a few minutes with a drill and some emery cloth.

[randyrat]

Kinda looks like 21.5 is the sweet spot for that load.
I'm struggling with my eyes also. Good lighting/sun light & no fatigue i'm fine, but some days things are blurry. So far no glasses, just a matter of time.

[ghh3rd]

Hey Randy - that's some of your 100% pure fine filtered Beeswax on the edge of those holes :-). 21.5 is the smallest group.

Funny how the 18.5, 20 and 21.5 (middle row) each have bigger groups on each side of them.

Randy

[Blammer]

are you using a good rest?

that 18.5gr load looks really good! should be pleanty of whump for most game.

[ghh3rd]

I was resting the gun on a sandbag, and it was very steady.

It was interesting noticing how the recoil changed as the loads increased, especially as it moved into the 20's.

[44man]

I use 21.5 also but your boolit is too small. If that is a Ruger, the closer you get to .432" the better. You might want to lap the mold a little and also the die. Do not lap the check section.
Dump the mag primers and use a Fed 150.

[ghh3rd]

44Man, actually, I do have Fed150 primers, per your recommendation.

I was thinking I'd give lapping a try sometime... never did it, but have an idea how from this fourm. Is it difficult to get all of the cavities to the same size? I guess there's a lot of testing (casting) and measuring to do during the process.

I've heard that molds drop larger boolits if the cherry they used was new, and each subsequent mold from the same cherry drops smaller boolits until the cherry finally gets too small. If that's true, I wonder if I happened to get a mold from an older cherry? Anyone have a Lee 310gr mold that drops larger boolits who wants to trade for one that drops smaller boolits [smilie=1:

Perhaps I'll cast enough boolits from this mold to get me by for a while (I'd like to try them on some hogs), and then try lapping. When I'm ready, please stand by for some more questions...

[lwknight]

Nearly all W296 users would recommend a magnum primer. Winchester and Hogdon do too.

[fredj338]

Nearly all W296 users would recommend a magnum primer. Winchester and Hogdon do too.

I agree, especially in cold weather. Your 20 & 21.5gr groups look fine for open sights & old eyes. I have the same problem & 2" @ 25yds is about the best I can do anymore. I agree w/ 44man though, yo umight want to try to get another 0.001" larger dia going.

[KYCaster]

I don't have any answers for you...just want you to know you're not alone. I can certainly relate to your dilemma.

I have several targets like your 18.5 gr load with two distinct groups. Others with verticle or horizontal stringing and still others with nice round groups that rate from acceptable to horrible. I can get enough promising results to tease me into thinking a "one hole group" is a possibility, but I'm no closer now than I was a thousand rounds ago.

Now I suspect there's something wrong with my bench technique. I can keep my "wobble zone" to a point I think is acceptable, but somewhere between the trigger jerk and the flinch and the pounding in my wrist and elbow something is going awry.

I've been asking around trying to find somebody locally who may be able to give me some pointers, but so far no luck.

I'm about to reach the point where I may just lower my standards.

Good luck with your testing.

Jerry

[NHlever]

I share the same kind of frustration when testing handgun loads. I just don't see the sights well enough many days to be able to tell the difference between loads. I did buy one of those merit attachments, and tried it a few years ago, but I just put it back in my shooting bag to try again. I suppose that until I start shooting better groups offhand than I get on the bags, I really don't need to worry about it much. :D The good thing is that I can pick any load I like since they all shoot the same. :D

[44man]

Nearly all W296 users would recommend a magnum primer. Winchester and Hogdon do too.
They do but it would have to be well below zero before you see me switching. I have hunted and killed deer with my .44 and standard primers in some darn cold weather.
I just don't like to triple my group size or harm my hunting accuracy.
Ghh3rd, something else to try. Water drop your boolits, let them age a week. They will also expand a little.
Anneal the gas checks. For some reason water dropped WW metal is more accurate with a softer gas check. I need to do more work with it though.
I like even harder lead then WW's for best accuracy.
I don't think Lee uses a cherry and why they stick to small sizes for boolits is very strange.

[archmaker]

Take your three best loads and double the distance.

I found that shooting at round circles at distance is tough to do.

I always used a Chicken Silhouette for my load development. But I always wondered and i guess I need to do it, is to make a big Thick line X and see how that works or maybe a Wide V with a flat bottom. The wide V may be the ticket as it somewhat reminds me of the Chicken target.

I found that as the distance increased I could tell better about the loads that would and would not work, but I always tested them a few times, over different days before I settled on one.

[Bass Ackward]

1. The groups don't seem to tighetn up, and widen as they reach and then pass an optimum load as I had hoped them to.

I'm ordering an Ultradot tomorrow, so perhaps I'll be able to get more reliable results.


1. Funny how we don't always get what we suspect. The tightening and opening can be one of two things.

If you have a lead strength or hardness issue, then you will see exactly that. The lead strength issue can be from worn rifling particularly in the throat or an acceleration issue.

In fact, that is the best way to tell if you actually need a tougher bullet is to DO a ladder test. once you exceed the ideal combo for your outfit, where ever that point is, you will continually open.

If on the other hand you are not exceeding the strength of your metal or bullet design that the gun CAN handle, then you should see a ladder obtained where the groups open and close with the load.

2. Be interesting to see. Man has to know his limitations. It's finding them from a baseline that continually moves that is what life is about.

[rummy64]

I'm new to this site, so please bear with me! I don't know your experience level, but I May be able to point out a few observations. Your groups are moving low and right as the load gets hotter. That may be an affect of the recoil, because the groups do not seem to be getting any bigger. My Super Redhawk loves ww296 with jacketed 240g sierras. I do not cast my own boolets (yet), but I'm thinking more seriously about it as stuff becomes more expensive and scarse! I have worked up loads for .44 mag, .357, and .45 lc with 296, and I have never used a magnum primer.
If it were me, I would pick the most accurate load that I could shoot comfortably, and consistantly and practice with that one. Any one of those loads should have enough power for hunting pigs or deer. Just my thoughts.