deep fry heat treating??

[Marlin Hunter]

I was wondering if a deep fryer could be used to heat treat boolits. Most deep fryers go to 375*F which is too low. I don't know if oil could get to 450*F without smoking or catching on fire. My idea would be to get some light motor oil, heat it up in the deep fryer. Fill the fry basket with boolits and place in the fryer for 30 minutes to an hour. Then pull the basket out and place it in another tub of cool oil. Might be a little messy. just thinking????

[rob45]

I highly doubt the oil will be able to reach the required temperature without a smoky mess. I cannot say for sure as I have never tried it. A good test to see if it does smoke would be to put a small amount of oil in a pot above a burner and use a thermometer while noting the effects.

As for quenching in oil, I have tried it. Don't waste your time. Save oil-quenching for heat-treated steel.:smile:

JMO

[rhead]

One of the synthetic oils might be able to take the heat. Check the MSDS for flash point and fire point. Move the operation outside and have the ability to place the lid on the pot with a pole. A remote switch for the power would be nice.

[rbuck351]

Most motor oils give up at about 375/400 degrees and start smoking.

[MT Gianni]

After the smoke when it starts on fire it gets interesting. I would stick to an oven.

[jonk]

Why would you want to? Then you have to wash the oil off of them.

[Bloodman14]

Deep fried boolits? Might be good with ketchup.

[Shuz]

It's so easy to use a toaster oven once you determine the correct temp. setting with a good quality thermometer. To keep the same temp, I simply cut the power to the oven.

[Stick_man]

Deep fried boolits? Might be good with ketchup.

Exactly what I was thinking. Would you batter them first? Or deep fry them as cast? :veryconfu

[Marlin Hunter]

Exactly what I was thinking. Would you batter them first? Or deep fry them as cast? :veryconfu


Tempura boolits

The reason why I was thinking about deep frying was because the oil would surround ALL the boolit completely with heat, and a deep fryer can hold it's temperature more easily. An oven has radiant heat. It isn't really suppose to cook by heating the surrounding air, but I think a convection oven would be better than a standard oven.

[The10mmKid]

Marvin,
We use a Heat Transfer at work that runs ~500degF

http://www.therminol.com/pages/region/na/

It is however, closed loop. Not pressurized, just not exposed to air.

I'd send you a gallon, but word is the fluid costs~$50/gal.

It's the stinkiest fluid I've ever smelt . . . straight from the pail. It doesn't get any better after use.

Good for you thinking 'out the box'.

'da Kid

[beanflip]

dipped in batter ..... hum .... cornboolit ..... mmmmmmm good .....lots of leading though

[Shiloh]

After the smoke when it starts on fire it gets interesting. I would stick to an oven.

This almost sounds like an experience. Care to elaborate:bigsmyl2:

Shiloh

[Down South]

This almost sounds like an experience. Care to elaborate:bigsmyl2:

Shiloh

Pictures would even be better.

[Cowboy5780]

Sumbodys fixin to start a fire lol

[rhead]

The synthetic oils are much more stable at high temp.

[badgeredd]

I have my doubts about quenching in oil. My inclination is that for the very reason you mention bringing the boolits up to temp in oil would have a negative effect in cooling them. I really see no reason you couldn't quench them in water. The heat transfer to water is much faster than it is to oil. Interesting idea if you can find a good oil to heat them in. Actually I was wondering if vegetable oil could be heated to a higher temp before you'd reach the flash point. Just a couple thoughts.....

Edd

[Marlin Hunter]

I have my doubts about quenching in oil. My inclination is that for the very reason you mention bringing the boolits up to temp in oil would have a negative effect in cooling them. I really see no reason you couldn't quench them in water. The heat transfer to water is much faster than it is to oil. Interesting idea if you can find a good oil to heat them in. Actually I was wondering if vegetable oil could be heated to a higher temp before you'd reach the flash point. Just a couple thoughts.....

Edd


I was worried about splatter. Kinda like frying bacon when your naked. If you don't know what I'm talking about, try it sometime.

[Marlin Hunter]

Marvin,
We use a Heat Transfer at work that runs ~500degF

http://www.therminol.com/pages/region/na/

It is however, closed loop. Not pressurized, just not exposed to air.

I'd send you a gallon, but word is the fluid costs~$50/gal.

It's the stinkiest fluid I've ever smelt . . . straight from the pail. It doesn't get any better after use.

Good for you thinking 'out the box'.

'da Kid


Thanks for the offer, but I live in a liberal commie neighborhood and if they smell something better than themselves, they start to spit and shrill.

[AZ-JIM]

dipped in batter ..... hum .... cornboolit ..... mmmmmmm good .....lots of leading though

.....lots of leading though? Going in or coming out? Couldn't help but wonder.


Jim

[mooman76]

Peanut oill and I believe cotton seed oil holds a higher temp befor burning. I don't know the exact temp. That's one reason they work well for the deep friying turkeys.

[Bob Krack]

Without attempting to give any merit to your suggestion or question, I was a precision millwright in another life. Many bearings with shaft diameters exceeding 6 inches could be installed only by heating the bearings. We always used turbine oil or sometimes we would use automatic transmission fluid.

If memories serve me, we had to heat the oil to well over 375 degrees and always had a thermometer immersed in the oil. I'm sorry I don't remember the upper limits of heating those oils but maybe this gives you a little more food for search.

Bob

[MT Gianni]

This almost sounds like an experience. Care to elaborate:bigsmyl2:

Shiloh

I am trained as a Heavy Duty Equipment Mechanic with a speciality in Diesels except it occurred in 75 and I haven't worked in the trade since '78. My first year of school someone was working on a project that involved a stuck bearing race on a shaft. Instructor in the 24 bay garage says "try heating it". Genius level kid, just out of HS, knows that fire on grease is bad, fluid transfers heat uniformally, and there is a tub of old motor oil out of the Detroit Diesel 6-53 that I just drained into a metal tub. He ask's if I'm done with that and I reply sure. It gets drug over to his side where he inserts the bearing race and shaft and gets with it heating the oil with an acetylene torch. I smell hot and smoke as do a couple of others and then a six foot flame erupts between his bay and the shop wall. Being 19 and immortal I ran toward the fire as did most others. I shut off the torch at the tank, some one else emptied the extinguisher. That afternoon we had a sit down lecture on safety rules and thermal dynamics. That shop partnership, we worked in pairs, was also broken up at the next quarter.

[rockrat]

IIRC, turbine oil is synthetic. You could probably get that hot enough, as synthetic car oils, but I would worry about the fire hazard

[rob45]

I was worried about splatter. Kinda like frying bacon when your naked. If you don't know what I'm talking about, try it sometime.

I understand what you're saying, but frying bacon indicates a different process.

Bacon splatters due to the water in it being mixed with the grease. As the bacon heats up to temperature commensurate with the evaporation point of water, the moisture now becomes a gas trapped underneath the grease, ultimately yielding the infamous popping/splattering. The same thing happens when the tinsel fairy visits us while melting lead- gas becomes trapped under the surface and forces its way out.

If you take molten lead and somehow get moisture trapped under the surface, bad things happen. However, if the moisture does not penetrate the surface, it immediately evaporates and all is fine- at the most, there may be a "sizzling effect", but no violent popping. Anyone who has accidentally dripped sweat over their lead melt will know what I mean.

Anyone who knows their way around the kitchen knows that pouring water in hot oil is not a wise thing to do. However, I suspect very few, if anyone, has purposely done the reverse; i.e., poured hot oil in water.

Not paying enough attention in chemistry class means that I cannot predict the outcome before actually attempting; therefore, I will do such an experiment this weekend and post the results.

[Flinchrock]

I was worried about splatter. Kinda like frying bacon when your naked. If you don't know what I'm talking about, try it sometime.

I think I'll take yer word for it!!!
For some things ya need to keep yer clothes on!

[wills]

How about brake fluid. Doesn't it boil at about 450-500 F ?

[Bloodman14]

Hey, AZ Jim, talk about 'roughage'!

[Marlin Hunter]

How about brake fluid. Doesn't it boil at about 450-500 F ?


I will look into it. I know dot 3 and dot 4 fluid absorbs water. I don't know if that makes a difference.

[runfiverun]

there is a thread here somewhere about heating brake fluid up, some nasty kill ya gasses or sumthin.
i'd look at grease,as i've been told it takes about 500* to melt it.

[lylejb]

Dodge (mopar) dot3 brake fluid boils at 450f, according to the MSDS
Dodge (mopar) 5w20 motor oil has a flash point of 435 F, boiling point of greater than 600F, from the MSDS

[rhead]

How about brake fluid. Doesn't it boil at about 450-500 F ?

That is pretty close it will vary some with brand name. The fire and flash points will be quite a bit below the boiling point.

Mobile 1 flash point 435* F fire point 455*F

Amsoil flash point 446*f fire point 471*F

It will be smoking and stinking at least some before you reach the flash point. You will want good ventilation.

The auto ignition point was not listed on the MSDS that I found online. Probably over 550*F but not sure. Flash and fire points would make that reasonable but not a given.

[dubber123]

Most motor oils give up at about 375/400 degrees and start smoking.

This is a handy bit of off topic info. If you have a little smear of oil on your moulds, and pre-heat it until it starts smoking, you will notcie it will start casting well filled boolits at about the same time. Very handy for not wasting time pouring lead into a too-cool mould.

[rob45]

Anyone who knows their way around the kitchen knows that pouring water in hot oil is not a wise thing to do. However, I suspect very few, if anyone, has purposely done the reverse; i.e., poured hot oil in water.

Not paying enough attention in chemistry class means that I cannot predict the outcome before actually attempting; therefore, I will do such an experiment this weekend and post the results.

I mentioned earlier in the thread (post #2) about how quenching in oil does not work. While I have never heat-treated bullets by any other method than using ovens, I have indeed tried to use oil for the quench.

What compelled me to experiment with the oil-quench is the fact that I have some experience with using it as a quench medium after heat-treating steel. A few failed experiments later revealed nothing but a waste of time doing the heat treating (actually it was not truly a waste of time since I learned a few things). The bullets simply do not harden the same way they do when using water to quench.

I am not a metallurgist, chemist, engineer, or any other type of "scientist" (well, maybe a "mad" scientist:smile:), therefore I cannot explain in detail why oil-quenching does not provide optimum results for our bullets. But I believe it may have something to do with the rate of heat transfer as mentioned by badgeredd in post #17. Whatever the reason may be, it appears that cold water is the quench medium to use for our bullets. I have been heat treating bullets for over 20 years, and my best results have always been with cold water and getting the bullets from the oven to the water as quickly as possible.

Since we know that water poured onto hot oil is a no-no, a new question arises. Remember, we are talking about using hot oil for the heat treatment, yet still use water for the quench. As promised, I ran a couple of experiments this weekend to see what happens if we pour hot oil into water.
I do have past experience in the foodservice industry, so some of the results were predictable to me; however, I had no actual experience with the third test until I tried it. I tried to simulate actual conditions to the best of my ability without actually using lead bullets (this is cooking eqiupment, and SWMBO had the ever-watchful eye on me). Each test involved using a metal 5-gallon bucket filled half full with clean, cold water. Water temperature was as drawn from the cold tap. The oil used was new peanut oil at a volume of one quart.

Using fresh peanut oil heated to 430 F, my first test involved simply pulling an empty basket out of the hot oil and dropping it into a bucket of cold water. Nothing happened- any loose oil simply floated to the top of the water.

Next I put some clean steel bearings into the basket. My thoughts were to have something to which the oil could adhere, thereby introducing more oil into the water and modeling the same conditions as when using bullets. Same result as the first test- the excess oil simply floated to the top.

My third and final test involved pouring the entire pot of hot oil into the bucket of water. NOW I produced a small reaction- the water made a deep gurgling sound underneath the surface, a slight bubbling, and as predicted, all that oil floated to the top. But I did not get a violent, explosive reaction that would make this process too dangerous.


My conclusion: The problem we have concerning hot oil and water relates to the total heat absorption of the water. If there is enough heat mass to overcome the water, the water immediately goes into the gaseous state and produces the explosive effect by throwing hot oil everywhere. But if there is enough cold water mass to absorb that heat, nothing detrimental happens- the water simply becomes warmer while absorbing the heat; at most, we may have localized boiling under the surface as evidenced in the third test.
Remember that I poured a quart of hot oil into about 3 gallons of cold water; if the volume ratio had been reversed (i.e., 3 gallons of hot oil into only one quart of water), I highly suspect that very bad things would have happened, since there would now be enough heat mass to immediately overcome the heat absorption capability of the small amount of water..

So if we were indeed "deep-frying" our bullets, we would not have a problem continuing to use cold water as the quench medium, but we would still have "greasy" bullets.

I still have my reservations concerning the "deep fry" method as a whole. It seems great in theory, and Marlin Hunter hit the nail on the head in post #10. But not only will it be an impractical method; it will be very expensive.

More details to come soon.

[Lunk]

My conclusion: The problem we have concerning hot oil and water relates to the total heat absorption of the water. If there is enough heat mass to overcome the water, the water immediately goes into the gaseous state and produces the explosive effect by throwing hot oil everywhere. But if there is enough cold water mass to absorb that heat, nothing detrimental happens- the water simply becomes warmer while absorbing the heat; at most, we may have localized boiling under the surface as evidenced in the third test.

More details to come soon.

This is exactly correct (so far as I have observed). Working in kitchens for 15 years has taught me many things about hot oil. :???: The big problem with hot oil and water is heat and specific gravity. Water will sink and if there is enough heat to flash it to steam you have many problems. Putting hot oily things in water will generally not be a problem due to the water absorbing the heat but not boiling.
My biggest concern for this operation would be cost. you eather need a turkey fryer or a higher end deep fryer to attempt this and a far bit of oil. Now a cheapo toaster oven runs at about 800 watts I would imagine and cost $20-$30 bucks. a good enough fryer would be in the $100+ range and if it's electric would probably use something like 2000 watts. If it's gas then there is the cost of the propane to consider. Also a commercial fryer holds about 5 gallons of oil and can effectively cook about 3 pounds of food without dipping to low in temp. I can not imagine that this is a speedier (you would still have to wash them) or more cost effective manner of heat treating bullets than an oven.

However if someone is intersted in trying this I would reccomend either peanut oil due to its high smoke temp or:
High temp oils (http://www.cargill.com/products/industrial/bioindustrial-index/agripure-gold/index.jsp)

I would look at Agri Pure Gold 750. No idea where you can get some but that has a higher flash temp than anything I've ever used in a kitchen.

[lwknight]

Someone mentioned earlier about using brake fluid. The DOT 5 stuff is mostly silicone. Might be worth checking out.
S5.1.1 Equilibrium reflux boiling point (ERBP). When brake fluid is tested according to S6.1, the ERBP shall not be less than the following value for the grade indicated:

(S5.1.1)(a) DOT 3: 205 °C. (401 °F.).

(S5.1.1)(b) DOT 4: 230 °C. (446 °F.).

(S5.1.1)(c) DOT 5: 260 °C. (500 °F.).

[alamogunr]

It's so easy to use a toaster oven once you determine the correct temp. setting with a good quality thermometer. To keep the same temp, I simply cut the power to the oven.

What do you use for a thermometer? Are standard oven thermometers accurate enough? I have a toaster oven that SWMBO didn't care for, so I ended up with it in the shop. So far all I've used it for is to reconstitute silica gel drying media and to try to eliminate bow in a 6 cav mold.

John
W.TN