How to affix gas checks without sizing

[ghh3rd]

I had a problem installing gas checks on some Lee 310gr boolits today. I was pushing them through a .430 sizer, and there wasn't enough resistance to force the checks onto the boolits, as I wasn't actually resizing. Apparently the gas check shank is a little large, as I can't just place them on the boolit, but must force them on with a lot of pressure.

I was able to use the die to force checks on a previous batch of boolits, but not this batch.

I finally managed to get seat the checks by placing a piece of wood at the top inside of the press, putting the boolit nose down on the plunger, and pusing the check against the piece of wood. It seems that this method is hard on the press, and may make a small change to the shape of the boolit.

Also, this was tedious, and there were some that didn't seem to be perfectly squarely installed and were rejected.

Since the check shank is too large on my boolits, I don't see any way to fix this mold and this problem.

Any other ways to affix my (Hornady) gas checks to these oversize gas check shanks without relying on the sizing die?

Thanks - Randy

[dromia]

The Lyman sizers come with a gas check seater.

NOE make a gas check seater.

However the problem as you have identified is with the mould shank, has this mould cast before with the proper shank dimension?

If it has then I would check that the bottom of the mould is closing properly and that there is nothing like lead smears or burrs keeping it open a tad.

If its a new mould then send it back to Lee.

You can open gas checks by placing a suitably sized ball bearing on the check and giving it a tap with a hammer, annealing the checks first helps.

You can also shave some lead of the shank by giving it a twist in a Lee case deburring tool.

Ultimately the mould needs fettling.

[Ricochet]

If there is a rifle style Lee Factory Crimp Die for a cartridge with a neck of similar diameter to the boolit you're using, you can hold the check (seated on the boolit shank) down into the jaws of the collet and operate the crimp die, playing with the die adjustment till the check is crimped to the right diameter. I don't know what die might work with a .44. A .30 caliber die is perfect for an 8mm boolit. If there's something in the .41 caliber range it'll likely work.

[ghh3rd]

I was thinking of sending it back to Lee, but after being discouraged with it dropping malformed boolits (other than the GC shank), it finally gave me a batch of 100's of beautiful boolits yesterday :???:

I may just have to bite the boolit and exchange it.

Randy

[Gohon]

I just went through the same problem with a Lyman 22 caliber mould. Returned it for a replacement but the replacement mould was the same way. Thought I had it corrected by lapping the mould but the checks still seated crooked and not flush. One thing I learned is with improperly seated gas checks in any manner, accuracy goes out the window and in a big way. I don't mind annealing checks for easier fitting but all the other gimmicks about tapping them with a round ball, using a crimp dies and so on is completely unacceptable to me. Not saying they don't or won't work or condemning those that are willing to go through that kind of trouble but if the product doesn't work properly then I don't use it.

[mpmarty]

All my RD 45/70 molds have somewhat oversize heels. I start each check on the boolit and then rap it sharply on the benchtop before pushing it through the .460 Star sizer. Works fairly well and doesn't take too much extra effort.

[Tom W.]

My Lee C309-160R would not seat a check without running it base first through the Lee sizer, but someone here on this forum suggested that I e-mail Lee and tell them. I did, and Lee sent me a "nose profile die" which is a sizer die that hasn't been drilled all the way through, but enough so I could seat the gas check properly, and then run it through the sizer. It's another step. but it works, and this is a hobby...

[Rocky Raab]

I have had some success with first creating the tiniest bevel on the bullet base with an outside chamfer tool. Set the check on a hard flat surface, center the base of the bullet atop it and while holding the bullet as vertical as possible, simply tapping the nose of the bullet with a very light plastic mallet. If the check appears crooked, tap it again.

It doesn't always give perfect results, but it works surprisingly well. Seating the bullet in the case might even apply a bit of crimp to the gas check, if you are using the Hornady kind.

[Von Gruff]

I had a situation with my 7mm bullets that required this type of fix. What I did was to ream a length of aluminium tube to just slide over the seating stem of the Lee push through sizer die and just long enough to stand a bullet on its nose with the GC and drive bands exposed (in essence the tube has two dia, one to fit over the stem and one to hold the nose bore riding portion of the bullet)then had a standard 7/8 in bolt turned to cut a square stop groove at the top of the thread so it would turn down into my press and stop square and cut the length to suit. I pre seat the GC nice and square with min pressure and no nose deformation and when they are all done remove the aliminiun tube and place the Lee sizer die in the press for crimping and only .0005 of bullet sizing. Works for me. I also had to size about 3/16 of the nose down by .0005 so I could seat to optimun leangth so had an unused lyman lubrisizer 358 sizer die turned out to except a neck sizer button from the Wilson straight line dies. Had the top part of the stem turned down to neck sizer internal dia and with a couple thou turned off the bottom of the die so a washer could be used on top to hold the button in place in the lubrisizer and with a small hardwood block against the stem to act as depth guide, I can get perfect fit for my bore. mind you I dip lube the drive bands in my own wax lube and nose dip the loaded rounds in a thined lla mix and get 2415 fps and good hunting accuracy. Well playing accuracy anyway at 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 at 100 for 5.

Von gruff.

[beagle]

It's pretty easy to make a "gas check spreader" using an M die shank. Take a 10-32 screw which fits the M die shank and turn the head using an electric dill to turn the head to the desired diameter.

This is used in a single stage press with a bar of metal used an an anvil. I have a couple of solid shell holders that my buddy made for me that slip in in place of the shell holder and they work real well.

Leave the screw head oversize and once you have the spreader rig made fit it to spread the check to the desired diameter. Makes no difference if it is a tad oversize, the sizing will iron it back out.

Once you have the rig made, it's really quick to spread a bunch of checks as the round screw head is self centering.

This is the easiest way I have found to overcome the oversize GC shank problem./beagle

[Ricochet]

I'm going to have to try Rocky's outside chamfer trick. I like that idea.

[StarMetal]

If you have a Lyman or RCBS luber/sizer why not lock up the die piston ram at just down in the bore a tad and use the machines?

Joe

[Ricochet]

Whatever sort of sizing die you use to crimp on the checks, the checks need to be seated straight on the shank. That's been my big problem with several moulds casting boolits with shanks too fat for the checks. Various methods of expanding checks have been offered as a solution. Chamfering the boolit base is a different approach.

[ghh3rd]

I think that although my 310gr boolits seemed well cast, and I did the best I could to affix the checks squarely, the groups from these boolits were over twice the size of some 253gr non gas check boolits that Arcticbreeze gave me to try.

Could be other factors, but since I'm having a problem with the gas checks, that's what I'm blaming, for now.

Randy

[Leftoverdj]

Folks, it ain't always the shank. GCs vary from lot to lot, too. I've had one box work perfectly and the next box be too tight.

I really like Beagle's suggestion. I'll have to try that the next time I run into this problem.

[Tazman1602]

It's pretty easy to make a "gas check spreader" using an M die shank. Take a 10-32 screw which fits the M die shank and turn the head using an electric dill to turn the head to the desired diameter.

This is used in a single stage press with a bar of metal used an an anvil. I have a couple of solid shell holders that my buddy made for me that slip in in place of the shell holder and they work real well.

Leave the screw head oversize and once you have the spreader rig made fit it to spread the check to the desired diameter. Makes no difference if it is a tad oversize, the sizing will iron it back out.

Once you have the rig made, it's really quick to spread a bunch of checks as the round screw head is self centering.

This is the easiest way I have found to overcome the oversize GC shank problem./beagle

Now Beagle I like that idea. I'm guessing this would work even in RCBS dies or the like that you could run a round head screw up into also.

I've got one mold, a Lyman .30 cal 173 flat nose for 30-30 work that was "shaving" lead from the GC shank after heat treating. After I read your post and the one above about the ball bearing thingy I was thinking I had to have something the could use to try this with. Looking at my tools I found a teeny weeny little ball peen hammer I'd bought years ago for some specialty work. Set the GC on a piece of steel, put the ball end in the GC, give it a whack and they fit right on, can then be put into the sizer and crimped on, but what a pain when you're supposed to just be able to seat them in the sizer. Sizer is an RCBS too.

Funny thing is I"ve got a Lyman 180 gr pointed I also had cast a bunch for and they press right on with no lead shaving along with my RCBS 405G .458's. The difference is the 173 grain bullets had already been heat treated and water quenched and the 180 grainers have not -- could that make a difference? I've cast some bullets in my day but this 173 grain bullet is the only one has given me this issue and the mold was made in 1999 and throws .311 out of the die so no mold issues at all.

Thanks for the post.

Art