What lubrisizer is this?

[NoZombies]

I picked this up for a song, and I'm trying to figure out what it is...

There are no markings anywhere on the machine, the lube reservoir is brass, and the remainder is cast iron and steel.

Besides an observation that it might be "John Wilkes Booth's own personal lubrisizer" (thanks Mark, still makes me laugh) I know very little about it.

The sizing die has an OD of .686 and the top punch shank is .249 (1/4" is close enough) I don't have a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer, so I don't know if the dies will fit, anyone care to measure the OD of one of their dies for me?

Anyone know what this one is?

[jcwit]

My Lyman dies mike at .700.

Hope this helps.

[scrapcan]

Send Pressman or Floodgate a pm, they may be interested in this specimen.

This is an early ideal lubricator/sizer. It was called the Ideal Bullet Lubricator and Sizer and was announced in Ideal handbook No.13 dated 1901. It was also the introduction of the G, H, and I dies. G is top punch, H is die, and I is the internal punch, yep those are the H&I designation we know today.

The handle looks like it was replaced as it would have originally had a cast handle arm with wood handle on the end. Lube feed wrench would have been cast with a matching wood handle.

The above information is entirely due to Floodgate forwarding to me. He is definitely one of the ideal/lyman Historians and an all around good guy.. The info from Floodgate has a picture of the same sizer ( with all the original parts) so I know the above is correct. If you enjoyed the above info you should be a member of the Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association.

[NoZombies]

Hey, thanks for the info!

The handle used to have the wood part I'm sure, but the wood went missing at some point I guess, and was replaced by the length of hose and cloth tape.

The adjustment wrench is no-where to be seen, or the wood for the handle, but everything else is pretty much there, including a .452 die, top punch and internal punch.

[Storydude]

Lyman/Ideal #1 Missing the bench clamp, and therefore pretty worthless to use as a sizer.

You may be able to drill and tap those "feet" on the bottom, but looking at mine, the iron is pretty thin there.

[scrapcan]

Storydude is right about the missing clamp piece, but you can likely make it. it looks to me like you could fab one out of angle iron with a tab /nut welded to the edge for the clamp screw to go through.

The two individuals mentioned above, Floodgate and Pressman, may have an idea where you can get a clamp or may be able to provide pictures of the clamp.

[NoZombies]

Interesting, I was wondering how the thing was attached to the bench... I used a couple of C-clamps to test it, and that worked okay, but wouldn't be a long term solution...

Could anyone post a photo of the bench clamp for me to see and try to emulate?

Thanks again for all the info guys, you're making my life easier!

[Buckshot]

..............Lyman dies are .720" OD at the top where the O ring goes, and a .700" body OD. That is, unless that press took a smaller size?

...............Buckshot

[Green Frog]

I'm coming to the conversation late, so the major points I would make are correctly covered. It is indeed an early Ideal. It is missing the "Siamese C-clamp" that comes in and catches both of those "ears" where the main body sits on the table. No reason a couple of strategically placed C-clamps of suitable small size wouldn't work fine. The wrench used to advance the lube is the hard part to find. I'd love to find one for mine! Anyway, it's a nice find, and if you get a lube die suitably centered and locked securely in the base, it should be a good working lubrisizer for you, just remember the system is not as strongly locked in as the later 45-4500 series units.

Froggie

[stephen perry]

Zombie looks like you bought an Ideal luber sizer no model number. Should take Lyman 45 dies and top punches.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[KCSO]

First model Ideal if it had a water pump 4 lobe handle it would be the earlies version and the l;ater one had the wrench handle. I'll see if I can fine the paperwork that came with mine.

[Storydude]

Clamp looks very close to this.

http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?M=REDDING_RELOADING_30520&ID=3565880

2 ears go over the ears on base of sizer, solid part against bench, stepping out sizer, and clamp under it.

[NoZombies]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info!

I'll have to clean all the lube out, and see if it'll take the larger diameter dies.

If anybody does have the original literature, that'd be great!

[Pressman]

The operating handle should have Ideal Mfg Co, New Haven Conn USA cast into it.

These tools are not too difficult to mount with often missing C clamp. My working example was mounted with two bolts and large clamp washers to a board. Incidently that one has sized untold hundreds of boolits, so many that the pressure shaft has a 360 dregee twist from using stiff lube.

Most of the lube chambers are chrome plated, is yours brass or is the chrome coming off?

Operation is the same as the Lyman 45/450. Not much has changed in the last 100 years.

Ken

[NoZombies]

Interesting... from looking at the photos Pressman has posted, that is not the same press as mine!

A few differences: the handle mounting points on mine are very different, with a single tab for mounting the leverage bar, the leverage bar (for lack of better term) is split, and fits around the tab on the body, and again around the end of the handle arm.

The top of the mechanism that slides up/down is also split, and the single steel bar of the handle fits within, it doesn't have the tab between the handle arm and the top of the moving assembly.

The lube reservoir is shorter (I think), and was never chrome plated. the reservoir cap is different as well.

The screws are all screws, not thumb studs, and look original.

So I guess it's a mystery again!

[scrapcan]

Hang in there it's roots will be determined. I was sure that it was an ideal when I saw it.

I also wonder if this is an early saeco as they are some what similar in design. It however looks to old to be a saeco product. I am still going with Ideal.

[NoZombies]

Here's a photo of the handle connections and such. these are the main things that make me pretty sure it's not the same as the one PressMan posted.

[Storydude]

Saeco. Ideal sizers never had the slot in the upper press for the handle.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=756252

[Bent Ramrod]

The #1 and even the later #45 were pretty light and fragile, and depended on the moulds casting to very close to the sized diameter. When the tolerances on the moulds got sloppy, especially on big boolits, the breakages and other failures started occurring on the lubrisizers. Stouter designs like the Lachmiller (now RCBS), SAECO and the various lube reservoirs mounted on reloading presses could handle these oversize castings, and Lyman followed suit with their #450 and later the #4500.

Yours has had the cast lever arm and the link replaced with heavier steel strip, filed or ground to shape, and the grip covered to make it easier on the hand. This was likely done in order to keep using the lubrisizer with oversize boolits. I would imagine that the missing clamp was the next part that broke. The lube reservoir could have been dented and shortened, or replaced with a piece of the appropriate sized tubing.

I saw one like yours yesterday at the Costa Mesa gun show. It had a homemade replacement lever, a replacement reservoir cap and (I think) wrench; at least the wrench didn't have the nifty wood handle. It was painted battleship gray, which threw me for a second, but it was too light to be a SAECO or Herter's. Next time I went by the table the guy had sold it.

[Pressman]

The upper frame where the handle pivots is shaped differently than the Lyman, the cap is different, possibly a replacement.
OD green color, repaint?
Handle and link, need closer inspection to determine if they are homemade or nicer factory work.

Ken

[scrapcan]

I think Floodgate has the answer to what make this sizer is. We need to verify with another member of the ARTCA. I will let them announce the pedigree when confirmed. After seeing the info that Floodgate has I am sure he is correct. I will send you a pm to get email address.

[scrapcan]

Can you provide a picture of the back side of the sizer also?

[Pressman]

I have it figured oput also. I KNEW I had seen a picture of it somewhere and floodgate sent the picture.
Can you check to see if Lyman dies will fit in it. I do not think they will.

Ken

[NoZombies]

To answer some questions:

The link is original and cast iron, not a replacement. The handle arm may be a replacement, but if so, it was made by a machinist (entirely possible.)

As far as I can tell, it is the original paint, anyplace there's wear, it's only one layer of paint showing through.

The cap is not skeletonized, and appears to be original, and has the same paint as the rest of the cast iron

I can get a photo of the back of the thing in the next day or two, I'm not sure what you're looking for, but it has a third tab on the back, just like the ones on the sides for the "C-clamp."

lyman dies will not fit, the bore is .687 or .688, so lyman dies would need to be turned down in diameter to fit.

Could you guys let me in on the secret? share the photos? I'm really kinda curious now!

[Pressman]

The answer is Modern Bond.

Ken

[scrapcan]

Thaks Ken for posting the picture from. I was not going to take credit for Doug's knowledge. I see we got a message from Bill also confirming the identity.

Tony,

As stated in pm if this does not work out for you let me know and we willsee what we can do for trade, purchase, etc...

[mold maker]

Saeco still has the clamp. Either Midway or Midsouth had it on Clearance for $22. a couple days ago.

[NoZombies]

Thanks for all the info guys!

Looks like this one is probably gonna go to the antique reloading tool show one way or another.

That's pretty cool :D

[floodgate]

Nozombies:

Sorry not to get back sooner. This is a knock-off of the Ideal No. 1 sizer, made before WW II by the Modern-Bond Corporation, and reportedly somewhat sturdier than the Ideal. I am told it will not accept Ideal sizing dies, but they might be machined to fit; I don't have an example to check but I think "manleyjt" is on the track of one. Good luck on the bench clamp; I have been looking for one for my bronze Modern-Bond Model C loading tool for several years now, with no success. They also came in iron, and one of those might fit your press. I don't post here any more - just happened to check and see your PM (check my reply). Doug

[TAWILDCATT]

hi Floodgate:why did antque tools change to members only??give me a pm
you should have grabbed the clamp of the modern bond Model "C" when you had it.
I just looked in my Modern Bond cat and theres the luber.I dont know what yr the cat as theres no date on it but I was in hedron det 11 so it was around 1944 I got the cat.and the "C" tool was not made in that.the next cat has the tool and calls the luber "ideal" and that cat was in 1945.and it was discontinued.
my bet is the luber is a early Lyman.sold by Modern Bond.

[stocker]

The handle looks like it was made from an axe file.