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View Full Version : Slugging case sizing and seating dies



scrapcan
11-27-2009, 02:57 PM
We routinely slug chamber mouths, leads, and bores; how about our cartridge sizing dies and seating dies?

I have done this a few times to see if my dies were causing issues or if I needed to anneal cases (for the sizing dies) and to see what the expected result could be when seating an oversize cast bullet before going to all the work of having everything to the correct dimensions and changing it with one stroke of the press handle.

Do any of you have comments related to doing this?

scrapcan
11-27-2009, 11:41 PM
Hmmm, that was not a very successful post now was it. Oh well next time I will try to do better.

Buckshot
11-28-2009, 03:18 AM
We routinely slug chamber mouths, leads, and bores; how about our cartridge sizing dies and seating dies?

I have done this a few times to see if my dies were causing issues or if I needed to anneal cases (for the sizing dies) and to see what the expected result could be when seating an oversize cast bullet before going to all the work of having everything to the correct dimensions and changing it with one stroke of the press handle.

Do any of you have comments related to doing this?

..............Haven't slugged any before. ALL die manufacturers general production is generally pretty much predictable for such things as FL size dies, and seating dies. That is they ALL assume we're reloading jacketed bullets. This is pretty much always way too small in the neck sizing and the seater die.

The only FL die I ever had a sizing issue with was the Lee Die for the 7.65x53 Belgium/Argentine Mauser. And it was in not pushing the shoulder back far enough. Turning a bit off the bottom of the die took care of it.

A larger problem caused by their assumption of everyone shooting jacketed is that the area the boolit usually has to pass through is a scant thousandth over it's 'design' OD. So for a 30-'06 and similar, a Boolit sized .309" may just pass into it without scrapping or worse damage. Instead of slugging I use a pin gage from a minus set, and it has proven the above to be almost universal.

The 'almost' caveat has been with the 'Fat Thirties'. Some may assume a .311" slug and others a .312" slug. None of the above naturally applies to a custom set of dies. The RCBS Cowboy dies are a bit more realistic in size due to SASS requirements for lead. Although they aren't always, and really can't be expected to be perfect, because of the varience in firearms. However they're closer and may be useable for cast as is.

.............Buckshot

largom
11-28-2009, 11:33 AM
What Buckshot said is the reason I make my own seating dies based on the Hornady seater. I mostly neck size only using Redding Neck Bushing dies. Fat cast boolits can be a problem in conventional dies.

Larry

243winxb
11-28-2009, 11:37 AM
Fat bullets http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=729476&postcount=20

helg
11-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Dies are usually tapered, and just slugging the die may not be of much use, unlike slugging the bore. To measure the die internal dimensions, one could cast it with cerrosafe.

Anyway, die diameter is smaller than round diameter as brass and iron spring back. I believe that measuring sized shell gives better clue how good is the die.

looseprojectile
11-28-2009, 02:59 PM
In my old age I have developed a system whereby I use a fired case and make a boolit to fit it. The boolit at that point should be at least one thousandths over the groove dimension. Sometimes it is several thou. over the groove.
This is where I start. Then I make sure that the expander is not too small, that being no more than a thou. or so smaller than the boolit. With the right size expander all you need is a champfer inside the case mouth as opposed to a bell. The need for neck tension will vary with the cartridge. Most sizing dies size way too much and need to be opened up. For me crimp is only to keep the boolit from going deeper in the case.
Only in really big powerful revolver cartridges do you need to see the lube grooves of the boolit through the outside of the case. And then only with very hard boolits to keep the boolits from recoiling out.
In my rifle cases I try for very little to no sizing of the case. Of course always try the loaded ammo in your gun to see that they fit and adjust accordingly.
Since I have been doing it this way reloading has been a lot more satisfying and rewarding.

Life is good

scrapcan
11-28-2009, 06:11 PM
The reason I brought this up is that I sometimes use very old dies and I had a tough time with a CH seater for 6.5x55. I was getting some strange issues with leading. I switched to a set of RCBS dies and had much better luck. I then make shifted a dowel for both ends ( internals removed) and found out the CH die had a taper to the neck portion of the die. The rcbs was straight with the normal crimp shoulder.

I would love to have a set of pin guages but that is money I want to spend on other stuff. You know stuff I "have" to have..

It was just a topic I thought I would like to hear your thoughts on. Thank for the input.