Heavy .45 Colt and Unique

[outdoorfan]

I figured I'd also post this question here since this forum probably gets the most hits from the most knowledgable folk.

I'm shooting a 342 grain (actual weight) LBT in my Ruger BH. I would like to do some experimenting with Unique. I can't find any charts as to how much powder I can stuff into the case before I exceed that 30-32,000 range. Anyone got any experience with this? I'm looking to hopefully be around the 1,000 fps range.

[bigboredad]

I shoot 9 grains of unique with the 340 rnfp from lee that drops right around the same weight and that load runs right around 1000fps. I also use 10 grains of of universal at around 1200 fps both loads are pleasant to shoot accurate and no leading

[outdoorfan]

I shoot 9 grains of unique with the 340 rnfp from lee that drops right around the same weight and that load runs right around 1000fps. I also use 10 grains of of universal at around 1200 fps both loads are pleasant to shoot accurate and no leading

I'm surprised you get that much difference in velocity with two powders that aren't much different in burn rate.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing. And, is that 9 grain load near/at the pressure ceiling, if you happen to know?

[lwknight]

That Ruger BH wont care if you go to 50K. I'm not suggesting it though.
I have busted a ruger cylinder and you would not believe what it takes to do it.
Thats another story and it was not on purpose.

[bigboredad]

I am not sure about the pressure on the 9 grains of uique other than the cases almost fall out of the cylinder. I was just surprised that bulledt could go that fast and that all my loads are faster out of my 5.5 inch barrel than out of my 7.5 inch barrel blackhawk but the superredhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel can hit some pretty outrageous velocities that are just plain hard to believe

[StarMetal]

I am not sure about the pressure on the 9 grains of uique other than the cases almost fall out of the cylinder. I was just surprised that bulledt could go that fast and that all my loads are faster out of my 5.5 inch barrel than out of my 7.5 inch barrel blackhawk but the superredhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel can hit some pretty outrageous velocities that are just plain hard to believe

The pressure for say 8 grains of Unique and 250 grain cast is going to be around 13k to 14k. I use a 255 grain and 9.0 grains of Unique.

Joe

[Rocky Raab]

Not to call anybody out, but a 340 gr at 1200 would not be "pleasant to shoot" for ME!

I've shot some monster rounds, and they were tolerable. But pleasant? Uhhh, no.

[wickerbill]

Not to call anybody out, but a 340 gr at 1200 would not be "pleasant to shoot" for ME!

I've shot some monster rounds, and they were tolerable. But pleasant? Uhhh, no.

Well, compared to my 454 loads(300gr LGC at 1600) that seems kinf of pleasent to me.
Bill

[bigboredad]

oh come on rocky give them try the 340's aren't that bad compared to a full load of lil gun or 296 under the 340's now those will get your attention

[MT Gianni]

Not to call anybody out, but a 340 gr at 1200 would not be "pleasant to shoot" for ME!

I've shot some monster rounds, and they were tolerable. But pleasant? Uhhh, no.

Padded gloves and plugs under the muffs.

[runfiverun]

the faster heavier i go with my ported 445 the easier it seems to shoot.
must be good porting or sumthin.

[outdoorfan]

oh come on rocky give them try the 340's aren't that bad compared to a full load of lil gun or 296 under the 340's now those will get your attention

That's what I've been shootin' so far, and the muzzle blast is the worst part of it. The recoil is at my upper limit. I'm curious how pleasant Unique might be at around 1000 fps.

[Bucks Owin]

That's what I've been shootin' so far, and the muzzle blast is the worst part of it. The recoil is at my upper limit. I'm curious how pleasant Unique might be at around 1000 fps.
IMO, that's about the right velocity for Unique. Once one crosses that 1000 fps threshold, especially with heavy bullets, there are far better propellents available......JMO, Dennis

[Crash_Corrigan]

Want some fun? Load up some 2400 powder under a 115 gr LRN boolit in a .30 Carbine Ruger BH and let it rip at night!

Just make sure that you have ear plugs and muffs fully on.

OOOOOOH! Ya could roast a Turkey on top of that flame. I do believe that that little boolit makes a loudest explosion a handgun can make and spits out a very tiny boolit.

That would make a very nice video. Did Bruce B buy that Ruger by the way?

[bigboredad]

hey outdoor fan you really should try the unique load it really isn't bad and you can shoot all day long and not get a nervous twitch by the end of the day. If you have been shooting the faster loads you will have a blast shooting the unique load and like I said the cases will fall out of your gun. the ten grains of universal isn't bad but backing off that one grain brings it back to a big grin load

[wickerbill]

Want some fun? Load up some 2400 powder under a 115 gr LRN boolit in a .30 Carbine Ruger BH and let it rip at night!

Just make sure that you have ear plugs and muffs fully on.

OOOOOOH! Ya could roast a Turkey on top of that flame. I do believe that that little boolit makes a loudest explosion a handgun can make and spits out a very tiny boolit.

That would make a very nice video. Did Bruce B buy that Ruger by the way?

You ought to try it with a custom 5" barreled 30 carbine BH, now that's loud.[smilie=w:
Bill

[outdoorfan]

hey outdoor fan you really should try the unique load it really isn't bad and you can shoot all day long and not get a nervous twitch by the end of the day. If you have been shooting the faster loads you will have a blast shooting the unique load and like I said the cases will fall out of your gun. the ten grains of universal isn't bad but backing off that one grain brings it back to a big grin load

I will be doing that very shortly.

[bigboredad]

I tried 16 grains of 2400 under the same 340 bullet yesterday and I must of let rocky get in my head I was all tensed up and very tight and the first 6 hurt but once I relaxed and loosened up and shot like normal it was bad at all. It had more recoil than the unique load but all I can say is my gun loves that bullet and I enjoy shooting it

[Rocky Raab]

I guess having Rocky in your head would do that, LOL! It does to me!

Relaxing is indeed the key. That was the lesson I took away when I shot a five-hole 45-70 Blackhawk. Bigboredad, if you ever stopped by Neil Wheeler's booth at a Salt Lake gun show, you probably saw his custom creations. I shot and reviewed them all for an article years ago.

He made stretched-frame five-hole Blackhawks in 45-70, 475 and 500 Linebaugh, 375 Win and 444 Marlin. The 444 was the worst kicker. The others were more of a powerful shove and lift. That 444 was viciously sharp. Hurt my wrist every time. But if I relaxed my grip and arm, the big bores just rose up and left until they ended up pointing skyward next to my left ear. Not bad at all.

[outdoorfan]

I loaded up 12 rounds each of 9, 9.5, and 10 grains of Unique. Results were terrible (25 yards, rested). Groups were anywhere from 3.25 inches with the 9 grain load to up to 5+ inches with the 9.5 grain load. The 10 grain load was somewhere inbetween.

And the barrel leaded something terrible. Now, this particular barrel has leaded with every combination I've tried in it, but this was probably the worst.

Wish I could lick the leading issue. The throats are bigger than the groove diameter. The boolits fill the throats. The barrel is firelapped. Most, if not all, constrictions are gone. I've tried boolits from 12-25 bhn. I don't get it. Alignment looks fine.

[bigboredad]

outdoor fan sorry to hear about those results that is indeed interesting about the leading issue my 7.5 bh used to lead very bad then I decided to listen and slug my barrel and throats and size accordingly. If i had the results you've had I'd either quit or dump that gun. I wish I had something else for you to try to help the leading but it sounds like you have done just about everything.


rocky I have stopped by wheelers table in the past and was very interested in what he was doing with the rugers but I have no desire to shoot a .444 I have had friends in the past that shared some pretty painful stories

[outdoorfan]

I loaded up 12 rounds each of 9, 9.5, and 10 grains of Unique. Results were terrible (25 yards, rested). Groups were anywhere from 3.25 inches with the 9 grain load to up to 5+ inches with the 9.5 grain load. The 10 grain load was somewhere inbetween.

And the barrel leaded something terrible. Now, this particular barrel has leaded with every combination I've tried in it, but this was probably the worst.

Wish I could lick the leading issue. The throats are bigger than the groove diameter. The boolits fill the throats. The barrel is firelapped. Most, if not all, constrictions are gone. I've tried boolits from 12-25 bhn. I don't get it. Alignment looks fine.

Figured I'd give a quick update on this "leading" issue that I couldn't get rid of. I dropped the powder charge down from my typical load of 23 grains of H110 down to 21 grains. I'm still experimenting with bhn to see if 16 shoots better than 20, but so far the barrel has stopped leading. About time. I consider that progress, and I don't need those heavier charge loads anyway. Not much is gonna stop a .452 345 gr boolit whether it's moving at 1,060 or 1,160 fps. :bigsmyl2:

[Bullshop Junior]

You need to use Speed Green. I shoot my colt HOT and get no leading. I am shooting a 300gr at over 1300 FPS.

[MtGun44]

I would say you are left with either boolit design or lube. You may be running out
of your lube capacity, either quantity or quality.

Did I miss what lube you are using?

No reason a good boolit design and good lube can't run 1400 or better with no leading
in a properly dimensioned and smooth barreled revolver.

Do you have a lube star on the muzzle? Where exactly in the gun is the leading located?

Bill

[outdoorfan]

You need to use Speed Green. I shoot my colt HOT and get no leading. I am shooting a 300gr at over 1300 FPS.

I have some SG that I tried, along with LBT Blue Soft, Lars C-red, and my home-made stuff.

[outdoorfan]

I would say you are left with either boolit design or lube. You may be running out
of your lube capacity, either quantity or quality.

Did I miss what lube you are using?

No reason a good boolit design and good lube can't run 1400 or better with no leading
in a properly dimensioned and smooth barreled revolver.

Do you have a lube star on the muzzle? Where exactly in the gun is the leading located?

Bill

The boolit is a 345 grain (actual weight w/ 50/50 ww/soft) wfn plain base. The lube I've predominently been using is Amsoil 2-cycle synthetic oil mixed w/ beeswax. I use the same stuff in my .223 (70 gr.) & '06 (200 gr) at velocities of 2,800 & 2,700 fps respectively with no leading. I didn't say those loads were accurate, though. [smilie=s:

The cylinder throats are uniform at .453. The grooves are .4515. The boolit is .454. The gun has been firelapped.

The leading (streaking) would start at the forcing cone and eventually make its way to the muzzle.

It is what it is. I don't know what else to say.

[yondering]

Can you recover some of the boolits? A look at the rifling marks, especially around the boolit base, can tell you a lot about where the leading is coming from. Look for gas cutting, and/or boolit skidding in the rifling.

If the bore was firelapped too much, you may have excessive skidding in the first inch or two of the barrel, allowing gas cutting and leading. I went just a hair too far with the first barrel I firelapped, so the leading edge of the rifling was rounded off just in front of the throat. It did what you describe, but not as bad.

[outdoorfan]

Can you recover some of the boolits? A look at the rifling marks, especially around the boolit base, can tell you a lot about where the leading is coming from. Look for gas cutting, and/or boolit skidding in the rifling.

If the bore was firelapped too much, you may have excessive skidding in the first inch or two of the barrel, allowing gas cutting and leading. I went just a hair too far with the first barrel I firelapped, so the leading edge of the rifling was rounded off just in front of the throat. It did what you describe, but not as bad.


That's interesting. I don't have any convenient way to capture a boolit. I potentially could go to my friend's house and fire a few into a big snow bank, and then look for it in the spring. However, the load that I'm using now doesn't lead up, at least not for the first 30-40 shots, which is as many as I've shot through it before cleaning. I like the lower recoil & muzzle blast too.

[MtGun44]

Lube star at the muzzle?

Sounds to me like you are running out of lube or the bbl constriction is
resizing the boolits.

Bill

[outdoorfan]

Lube star at the muzzle? I don't know what that looks like, so I would imagine that it does not do that. However, I will pay close attention to that next time I shoot it.

Sounds to me like you are running out of lube or the bbl constriction is
resizing the boolits. All I can say towards this is that when I was done firelapping I drove a soft lead sinker down the barrel starting from the muzzle. I gave it light taps until it popped out the other side, and at no point along the way was there any constrictions or loose spots. I slugged every 18 firelapping rounds, and I stopped at the point that the sinker would go all the way down the barrel without needing any harder "taps" due to the constriction at the forcing cone where the barrel screws into the receiver.

Bill

All good ideas and things for me to take notice of. Thank you.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Most importantly is you found a boolit & powder that are happy with your gun!