45 ACP with small primer pocket?

[inline50]

Has anyone else ever encountered a 45 ACP case that uses a small primer? I was priming some brass that someone had gave me and found one with WIN NT 45 AUTO headstamp marking with a small primer pocket. About wore my hand out trying to seat a regular primer in it before I figured it out.

Remember: experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.

[beagle]

Both Winchester and Federal (that I'm aware of) make non-toxic ammo in .45 ACP with the small pistol primer.

I have both and have loaded both and other than having to switch primers, they load and shoot the same./beagle

[GBertolet]

I have. They are beginning to show up more frequently. I believe the NT is for non toxic as per the priming compound goes. I think the bullets loaded on these cases have no lead exposed either. Indoor ranges are the main purpose for these rounds. As regular primer dust has lead, and impacts of ordinary bullets create lead dust also. There is an emerging market for these type of rounds. The NT cases reload normally, you just need small pistol primers.

[StarMetal]

Wonder if you have a 1911 say, that's firing pin strikes pretty far off center on the large pistol primers, what concerns are there of not hitting a good area on the small pistol primers?

Joe

[rob45]

The NT means nontoxic. It is the lead-free primer designed for indoor range use.

Some people prefer to use them, but I think they are a hassle. The largest complaint I have with them is that although the pocket is a small primer pocket, the flash hole is a different size. Larger flash holes are generally known to raise pressures. Not enough to matter unless you're already pushing the max. Just another fly in the ointment concerning load development.

Would probably be OK if you had enough of them to make it worthwhile for a different load.

[Shiloh]

Wonder if you have a 1911 say, that's firing pin strikes pretty far off center on the large pistol primers, what concerns are there of not hitting a good area on the small pistol primers?

Joe

It is a good question, but I think most would still fire. On mine they still fire.
Your firing pin would have to be way out of spec. to not fire.

I separate them and they get scrapped. It fouls up the loading of WLP primered
brass.

Shiloh

[DevilDog83]

I've come across many of these recently, and my solution is into the scrap bucket, they are just not worth the trouble, in my opinion

[GBertolet]

You ought to save them. Just in case you can't get large pistol primers and have access to small pistol. At least you will be able to shoot. With the primer shortage fiasco, you never know!

[AnthonyB]

I just bought 2K at $20/K and will buy more at that price. I look at it as brass I can take to the field and not worry about chasing from the 1911. I have a brass addiction that makes me look for every piece of regular 45 ACP. Tony

[Netherwolf]

They could also be PIFed. Beats the scrap yard & would be useful to & appreciated by those shooting on a budget.
Netherwolf

[bohokii]

have ran into them have not ran into enough to dedicate a batch of 100 small pistol primers with yet so i just scrap em i got plenty of my own countless fired stuff i keep reusing

maybe if i was saving my range pickups i'd probably be up to about 30 of em

i dont frequent ranges where there are alot of "law enforcement" or when i do i am not permitted to scrounge as much as i would like
besides most of my spots get pretty well pre scrounged by someone else before i get there all that is left are blazers and wolf casings


as to a 45 auto firing pin being off center ive seen some pretty far off but never outside the sweet spot of a small primer

but if i had a 45 that out of wack (possibley a llama or an old philipeno one i may be concerned with the pin shanking the brass pocket sides possibly tweaking it and if it is old and brittle maybe crack off a hunk but i sure wouldn't blame the win nt using small primers i mean they are called center fire cartridges not "offcenter fire"

[STAR4ever]

A word of caution on the NT small pistol primered 45 ACP.....

If you are running a progressive press these cases can cause some SEVERE HEADACHES for you. (I speak with experience sadly). They will deprime easily and full lenght size just as large primered cases do.

However, the priming station will GAG and come to a screaching halt as the small pistol primer case will not accept the large pistol primer. This can cause a bent or broken primer piston or die at best and can even cause the primer to GO OFF if too much speed or pressure is applied to the operating arm. All around a very NASTY situation.

So if you scrounge these up or have them in your case collection, be sure to keep them separate from the large primered brass cases.

It only takes one of these to ruin some reloading gear, especially on an automated and indexed progressive reloader.

[Phat Man Mike]

I just toss them in a bucket for later use ! you have to take care when priming them... :x

[beagle]

Okay boys. I posted this once and since it has come up again, I'll post it again.

The SP pockets are probably a PITA for a progressive press. I'll grant that.

If you're loading a Ruger BH, there is an advantage. When I was researching the article on Castpics; Heavy Bullets in the .45 ACP Ruger BH, I was testing some heavy bullet loads. These were running right at the edge of sticky extraction. I ran out of LP primed cases and had a box of the SP pocket .45 brass on the shelf so I loaded the loads in that. No problems with extraction. I went back and tested my loads several more times and it continued to give me less indicated pressure and the same velocity.

I then went back and kicked my loads up a couple of notches and got higher velocities but didn't publish this data.

So, the use of the SP pocket cases for me gave less pressure with a stouter load than the LP primer cases.

If you're stoking a .45 Ruger convertible with an ACP cylinder with warmer loads, you might want to latch on to some of these and keep them on hand./beagle

[JIMinPHX]

I ran into that stuff several months ago. I found a few pieces of it out in the desert & was fortunate enough to notice that it was different before trying to prime it. That was back when I could not get large pistol primers, so it was like finding gold nuggets for me. I even got some more of it from a member of this board afterwords. It got me though the pinch until I found large primers again. I'm not using the NT brass right now, but I still keep it stashed in case I run into a primer shortage again. It's not bad, just different.

The NT ammo is really expensive. I've seen it for around $50/box around here. I was going to buy some just to get the brass until I saw the price.

There was also some foreign made military .45acp brass that used small primers. I think that it came out of one of the eastern block countries (CZ?). I think that all of that stuff was from long ago. I haven't seen it in more than 20 years now.

[Hang Fire]

Run into some strange stuff at times. While back I picked up some brass 5.56 military cases of unknown origin where all the locals go to kill rocks etc. I lined one up with the sun and could look down in the case to see they were Boxer primed.

When I went to deprime, broke off the depriming pin. Didn't learn nothing the first time, so replaced pin, repeated, and did the same thing again.

Sawed one of the cases open, and they have one of the tiniest flash holes have ever seen.

[JIMinPHX]

Sawed one of the cases open, and they have one of the tiniest flash holes have ever seen.

What headstamp did that small-hole brass have? I'd like to keep an eye out for them.

[inline50]

It was WIN NT 45 AUTO.

Remember, experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks,
that means that I only have the one headstamp to watch for so far.

[bohokii]

hey hang fire are the headstamps on the 223 with tiny holes "G 5.56 97"

[Cloudpeak]

Speer also has 45 brass with small primer pockets. The stuff I came across was not marked "NT". I ordered 1,000 once-fired's and around 75% of them were small pockets. The guy took them back and supplied brass with large primer pockets.

I load on a LNL AP so having the same size primer pockets is nice:wink: I don't have a case feeder on the Hornady. I like looking at each case and checking for case mouth cracks, small primers and "A-Merc" brass before placing them in the shell plate.