which gun for cast boolits?

[hornsurgeon]

ok, i've always cast for whatever gun i happened to have, which may have been putting the cart before the horse. i want to do things a little differently now.

i want to get a gun for shooting only cast boolits. prefer something lightweight, can deer hunt with, low recoil, and accurate. also it must be relitively inexpensive to buy and to shoot. i'd also like something with fairly commonly available stuff like a 30 cal, not 35 rem or 348 even though i love those rounds.

i've heard good things about the various savage bolt action 30-30's. or perhaps a lever in 30-30, winchester 94 or one of the marlins. (which one???) or ??? what do you suggest?

[rockrat]

I would say a lever in 30-30 or maybe one of the Marlin XL7's (think thats what its called). Bolt gun I think is under $300. Maybe in 308. Should work fine.

[hornsurgeon]

i guess what i'm looking for is "look for XXXX lever 30-30 because of XXXX" or "stay away from XXXX because of XXXX". you know, what models, years, barrel/rifling type, etc.

[Rocky Raab]

Savage 340 in 30-30. Add a decent aperture sight and you're set.

[OBXPilgrim]

Ditto the Savage 340 in 30-30 if you want a 30-30. Don't have one, but heard from several that do. Looks to me like the later ones were drilled tapped for a side mount scope base - two screw holes near middle of receiver, and some have two screw holes for a peep sight near the rear of the receiver, if you want all your options open.

The 840 and 325 model Savage are similar, but slightly different configurations.

If you like to tinker, try the H&R/NEF Handi Rifles. I've got two, but many barrels. One of my favorites is the 444 marlin. Had plinker loads with the Lee 310gr RF - that's a fun thumper. It can be loaded up to the range that it would not fall into your "low recoil" requirement, but downloading can make it fun. Some Handi's come with iron sights if you want to keep it light. Lots of folks like the 357 mag, and ream them to 357 Max, but you can still shoot 357 Mag & 38 special (and 360 Dan Wesson). The older 357 mags have iron sights.

[rockrat]

One of the 30-30 Handi's would be good as well as the Savage 30-30 bolt guns (don't know about cast, but first 3 rounds down the tube with 170gr PP's was under an inch). See if you can find a mid 50's 336A. Ballard rifling and D&T'd IIRC. I passed one up for $200 about 3 years ago, still kicking myself for that. You could get one of the XLR 30-30's, recent gun, and it should do well.
You could have the Savage guns or even a 30-30 Marlin/Win, rebored by JES to 38-55 and it should work very well.

[txbirdman]

If you can find a Remington 788 in 30/30 that's the one in my opinion. Otherwise go with a 30/06.

[R.C. Hatter]

:Fire: Get yourself a M-77 Ruger lightweight .30/06, the old model with the tang safety. if you can locate a used one in good condition. Put a decent scope on it and presto, you have a nice, relatively, inexpensive deer/cast boolit rifle. I have one that was a refugee from a pawn shop. The money I saved on the rifle, I put into a 3x9 Leupold scope and
have been well satisfied with it for several years now. Generally, you'll find Ruger provides more bang for your buck, in my opinion.

[bohokii]

i personally wouldnt cast for 30 rifles i'm just too big of a wimp

if i were so inclined i would go for a lever in 45-70 and cast for that

maybe even a 44mag or 45 colt lever gun as well

[runfiverun]

when i finally found a savage 340 in 30-30 i traded a 94 for it.
bolt action 30-30 with cast is about the top in a 30 cal gun.
the 94 is a close second.
in 35 it's the 358 win both of these can be pushed to j-word velocities with no fuss and no special tricks.
it's the twist rate that helps so much,if i were gonna do a 308 it'd have a 12 or 14 twist bbl.

[AZ-Stew]

It's easier to find a good shooting load for cast when you start with a relatively small case with respect to bore diameter. No fillers required. Larger bullet diameters are easier to cast well than smaller ones. Lower velocity cartridges allow the use of either plain-base or gas check boolits.

All together this points to the rimmed cartridges in .30, .32, .35, .44 and .45. All are available in rifles that are relatively easy to find and inexpensive. I use a Remington M-788 in .30-30. I also have one in .44 Magnum and a Winchester M-94 in .45 colt. All will shoot cast well, as will my son's Ruger #3 in .45-70. Were I to buy another rifle for cast, it would be a .45-70. Just beacuse.

Regards,

Stew

[stephen perry]

I feel for rifle .30 cal is the way to go for starting Cast. Another to consider starting Cast with is the 03A3. Much has been written on 03A3 cast bullets and loading. Would seem a natural.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[Ole]

I would get a lever rifle in .357 Max. Three rifles (.38 special/.357 mag/.357 Max) for the price of one.

[JIMinPHX]

I can't think of a 30-30 lever gun that I don't like. Any of them are good for cast. Some guys don't like the microgroove barrels, but I've had good luck with the one that I tried. The classic old Winchesters do have one little quirk that you might want to think about. They eject the brass straight up, which is not the best thing if you are going to mount a scope. But then I don't feel the need for a scope, so its not an issue for me. The Marlin 336 is a side ejecting 30-30 that works well & is an off the shelf item at Wally World.

If you are on a really tight budget, then get a Handi Rifle. They are cheap. They shoot well if you know how to use them right. You can always get more barrels later if you want other calibers too.

Don't bother getting anything in a magnum rifle caliber for shooting cast. You can push boolits out of a 30-30 at 2300fps. You might squeeze another 1 or 2 hundred fps out of a .308 or a .30-06, but you will burn more powder to get the same results in the larger capacity cases. Even if you had a magnum 30 cal, you would be hard pressed to push the velocity much over 2500fps with good accuracy.

I'm not pointing you away from magnum pistol calibers. They work just fine with cast. A rifle in .44 mag is a good deer gun with cast. .357 mag rifles are looked down upon by some people as a deer gun, but inside 100-150 yards, I find no fault with them.

Some people find the larger calibers easier to cast. .30 cal is about on the dividing line by some standards. They're not as tough as something really small like a .22, but a .357 or a .44 might be a little easier to get good fill out with when you are just starting out.

[gnoahhh]

I used a Savage 340 for years, after inheriting it from my Dad. Worked well with cast (and jacketed) bullets. Gave it to a nephew to remember his Grandfather by. If I were setting out to buy/build a dedicated .30 cast bullet rifle I would go one of three ways: 1) Another 340 in .30/30. 2) Scare up an old Winchester M54 bolt action in .30/30 (Best cast bullet rifle I ever owned). 3) Savage 99 in .30/30 or .303 Savage- the ones I have are tack drivers with cast bullets. One could also build a dandy cast shooter on a small Martini action or one of the current crop of single shots out there. Never having owned one, I understand the Rem 788's in .30/30 are great. Lots of guys used them in CBA Production Class back in the early days.

Some (most) of the options I listed can be pricey but if looked at as an investment as well as a shooting iron, they aren't bad. The 340 is the most common, but as good as they function they are homely things to behold. Not something to get the blood boiling in a real rifle loony. And scope mounting is problematic, being limited to a cheap sidemount due to it's split bridge reciever. Savage 99's are a problem only in that the models chambered in .30/30 and .303 Savage long ago were never drilled for scope mounts, and it's a sacrilige of the first water to do so to one now. Plenty of Bubba'ed ones out there that have already had that done to them though. Later (1950's-up) Savage 99's were drilled at the factory, and can be had in .300 Savage (an ok but not great cast round due to it's short neck) and .308 (always a great cast round but not optimal IMO due to it's increased capacity). The king of them all would be one in .358. I can't imagine a better cast bullet deer hunting round.

On any of your options don't ignore receiver sights. Some mighty fine work can be done with them.

[Bret4207]

I'd get something in 35 caliber first off. 30 is fine, but 35 has lots more selection. A 357 MArlin or Rossi would be nice. A 358 Savage 99 would be nice too. A 35 Remington Marlin, pre- microgroove if you want it easy, would be really nice, but you seem to think brass is hard to find. I don't now why, it's as common as many other calibers.

[jlchucker]

I don't own one, have never seen one except in photos posted or advertisements, but those Baikal/Spartan single shot rifles have been passing through my mind as a cast bullet only possibility. They make them in .308 and 30-06, both calibers have been highly regarded for cast-boolet shooting. Has anyone tried one of these for cast-only purposes? Too bad they don't offer them in rimmed calibers like 30-30 or 45-70--or even a rimless like 35 Remington.

[Rocky Raab]

And the one that hasn't been mentioned yet - a Krag. GREAT cast bullet round, but finding brass for it these days might be a challenge.

[JIMinPHX]

If you want something really cheap, then you might want to get a Mosin Nagant. They are old bolt action Russian army surplus guns. You can find them in good condition for $100 or less. They shoot a fat .30 caliber boolit (usually like .312 diameter). There are a few varieties to choose from, long, short & short with bayonet. They are a bit on the heavy side to carry around for hunting, but if you get one with a good barrel, they are good shooters. Brass for them is not exactly under your feet every time that you turn around, but you can find it if you look. I've seen boxer primed brass from Winchester and S&B. I've been told that PP makes it too. I forget who else. These guns are easy to find right now. Big 5 Sporting Goods puts them on sale for something like $79 for a few days, every few months or so. A lot of other dealers seem to have them lately as well. I think that they are a standard item with people like J&G. Any shop that handles Mil-Surp should have a crate full of them to choose from.

[Ricochet]

A lever action .44 Magnum isn't a bad choice. Good woods rifle for deer.

[hornsurgeon]

thanks for the input guys. i was thinking the 30-30 for several reasons: small case capacity, molds are easy to find, brass is everywhere as are rifles, i have no 30 cal rifle, and less lead per boolit. i do like 35 cal, but molds/brass is not as easy to find locally as 30 cal. actually, i kind of prefer non-common rifles most of the time. this would be an exception.

i am leaning twards the savage 340 for accuracy, but would really like a lever at some point also. if i look at the marlins, what should i look for? pre microgroove? before a certain serial #? longer barrel or not?

[Ricochet]

Really, there's nothing wrong with microgroove. You just need to fit your boolit to the rifle properly. Look at Ranch Dog's designs.

[Bullshop Junior]

30/30s are cool. It really depends on what you like. Are you ever going to use it for hunting? What kind of guns do you like? Bolt, lever? Do you want somthing that uses little powder, or somthing that used alot of powder and and shoots a BIG boolit?
My gun I shoot the MOST is my marlin 357.

[hornsurgeon]

i want to use it for target, small game with very reduced loads, and deer. i prefer efficient cartridges. i don't own or want a magnum, unless you would classify a 25-06 as magnum. :)

i have several custom mausers that i built myself, and several vintage custom bolt rifles. i also have my 45/70 sharps repro. another bolt gun is fine, but a lever would also be a nice addition.

[mroliver77]

I have a fairly new 336 Marlin in 30-30. It is micro groove and has the new style safety. It shoots anything and has never leaded for me. I have shot pure lead balls with 3gr Bulls Eye and hard balls over more BE. 110gr varmint condoms shoot great and also 90gr cast rp. 125 half jackets from 800 - 2000fps are a literal blast in this gun for ridding pests. The 311440 drops deer very effectively and a 160 gr LBT with flat nose dropped a 300lb hog in its tracks with massive internal dammage. I have recovered many cast boolits fired from this gun and none show any skidding or failure to grip rifling well. Size .310 and adjust alloy to match pressure and this baby delivers.
I only have one eye and it is suffering from middle age.A scope really helps out. Marlin 336 is easy to mount a scope on. Only real gripe is the fat fore end Marlin uses. One day I will take the belt sander to it and make it like the one on an older Marlin I have in 35 Rem thats a real jewel.
Jay

[smoked turkey]

So many good replies from so many knowledgeable shooters makes me hesitant to offer any "advice". So an opinion from one who enjoys casting, reloading, shooting, and hunting. I have a scope mounted Savage 340 in 30-30 that I shoot the old ideal 311291 sized to .309. Boolit weight from my alloy is 168 gr. My set up shoots pretty good at 100 yards. I haven't hunted with this rig as of yet but I have every confidence that it will harvest deer cleanly to 100-135 yds. I too like the idea of an efficient round. The cast 30-30 round is certainly that. I think you are on the right track. I really like the cast 45-70 but that is a serious caliber that can take anything that walks the earth with the right bullet/rifle combination. I think it is more gun than you need for deer. It also can have heavy recoil. But man is it fun to shoot. It will shoot length wise through a deer without any problem. Boolits require a lot of lead--maybe three times as much as the old 30-30. Anyway more food for thought and more grist for the mill.
Smoked Turkey

[runfiverun]

mark a 92 in 44 or 45 will do what you want very effectvely then.
easy on the powder or full tilt loads.
weights from 160 to 325+.

[.30/30 Guy]

I love the .30/30's!
My first choice would be a Savage model 99.
My second choice would be a Remington model 788.
Don't overlook the Savage model 219 - this rifle really points nice.

The one I keep dreaming about is the EABCO Model 97D. A sweet looking falling block.

[Bucks Owin]

I can't think of a 30-30 lever gun that I don't like. Any of them are good for cast. Some guys don't like the microgroove barrels, but I've had good luck with the one that I tried. The classic old Winchesters do have one little quirk that you might want to think about. They eject the brass straight up, which is not the best thing if you are going to mount a scope. But then I don't feel the need for a scope, so its not an issue for me. The Marlin 336 is a side ejecting 30-30 that works well & is an off the shelf item at Wally World.

If you are on a really tight budget, then get a Handi Rifle. They are cheap. They shoot well if you know how to use them right. You can always get more barrels later if you want other calibers too.

Don't bother getting anything in a magnum rifle caliber for shooting cast. You can push boolits out of a 30-30 at 2300fps. You might squeeze another 1 or 2 hundred fps out of a .308 or a .30-06, but you will burn more powder to get the same results in the larger capacity cases. Even if you had a magnum 30 cal, you would be hard pressed to push the velocity much over 2500fps with good accuracy.

I'm not pointing you away from magnum pistol calibers. They work just fine with cast. A rifle in .44 mag is a good deer gun with cast. .357 mag rifles are looked down upon by some people as a deer gun, but inside 100-150 yards, I find no fault with them.

Some people find the larger calibers easier to cast. .30 cal is about on the dividing line by some standards. They're not as tough as something really small like a .22, but a .357 or a .44 might be a little easier to get good fill out with when you are just starting out.
I'm with you amigo. I've cast handgun bullets for quite awhile now but am just teeing off with rifle calibers. Have a 45/70 Handi rifle and a M-94 that are going to go on cast boolit diets exclusively. I can think of no two calibers that better lend themselves to cast projectiles.....IMO, Dennis :castmine:

[Lead Fred]

I bought my Win 94 just to shoot cast boolits.

Then I bought the 45/70.
Have not smelted any 30 cal since.

When you touch off a 500 grainer at the range. You have the attention of everyone at the range, and a few new friends.


My Microgroove Marlin doesn't like cast, about a 6 inch group at 100 yards.

[Adk Mike]

I just bought a 30 30 handi rifle yesterday. I surfing the web now trying to decide on the right back sight.

[Bucks Owin]

I just bought a 30 30 handi rifle yesterday. I surfing the web now trying to decide on the right back sight.
I'm having the same dilemma. I think the Lyman #2 tang sight looks "right" on a M-94 levergun, not sure about my Handi rifle. At present mine wears an old 2.5X Weaver for "developmental purposes" :wink:..JMO, Dennis

[trk]

Hmmm.

Win 94 BB in .375 Winchester. 264gr cast or round ball for squirrel. Kicks about the same as a 30-30.

[Paul B]

So many interesting comments that I almost hesitate to add mine. Note I did say, "almost." I've been shooting cast bullets in the 30-30, .08 Win. and 30-06 for a long time now, betetr than 50 years, give or take a year.

As most of the comments are on the 30-30, I'll stick with that one. Over the yars, when hunting, if the terrain was amenable for use of the 30-30, then that is what I've used. However, living mostly in the wide open spaces of the west meant that most of the time, the 30-30 wasn't feasible. Old age and deteriorating eyesight hasn't helped much along those lines.

Anyway, although I have a goodly supply of jacketed factory ammo for the 30-30, (I cleaned out a K-mart's supply, 27 boxes, when they had a liquidation sale. After all, $4.00 a box for factory ammo is way less than wholesale.) I still prefer to hunt with a 30-30 when conditions allow using cast bullets. I'be gotten the best accuracy with the 1905 design Lyman #311291. I've taken 15 deer with that bullet loaded to 2000 FPS. lately I've been playing withthe RCBS #30-180-FN which casts a 190 gr. bulet in my alloy. At 1950 FPS, the load duplicates Winchester's 190 gr. load for the .303 Savage and the two deer taken with that bullet have been bang/flops DRT. I've located a small herd of feral pigs and will be trying for one as soon as it cools off a bit more. That bullet should do a number on one of the little (?) porkers and sausage will be in the works.

I've had good results with cast bullet in the 30-30 in a number of rifles including several M94s, two M64s a choice M54 and in two M336s, one of which I still have. I never had a problem in the Micro-groove barrels with either leading or poor accuracy. I think the diameter sizing has something to do with that. Mostly, I've used .310" as the diameter of choice for all .30 caliber bullets anyway, and I think that may be why no problems with the Marlin. I may try a few in .311" for splits and grins but I don't think it'll make that much difference. That's the only 30-30 I have that is scoped.

Alloy of choice has always been from a batch of wheel weights I bought in the mid 1970s. BHN level runs right at 14. I can make up more at that level with the softer WW metal used today by adding shot, linotype and some lead free solder. some of the current WW's I've gotten lately run as soft as 8 on the BHN scale. usually, I'll run a few bullets totest and then add what I think it needs to bring the hardnes level up to what I want. That new batch will then be right at or very close to 14 BHN and will heat ttreat to 31 to 32 BHN if I need a bullet that hard. (Level of hardness I prefer for target loads in .308 and 30-06)

A cartridge I always thought might be just about perfect for a cast bullet shooter is the 7.63x39 AK47 round. A not too large powder capacity and would be cool in some kind of single shot rifle. Throat it for the Lyman #311291 with about a 1 in 12" twist and it just might be a nice shooter with decent accuracy and very low recoil.

I got to stop thinking this way. Every time I do it ends up costing me money.

Paul B.

[David2011]

A friend who could no longer gunsmith due to health offered me a new commercial Mauser action with double set trigger, barrel, chambering reamer and headspace gauge to build a 375 H&H. I couldn't tell him "no." I recently fit the barrel and chambered it so all that's lacking is a set of express sights and a nice stock. I have to use a nice stock with good figuring on this one. The boolits will be from an RCBS 37-250 FN mold. I have great hopes that it will be a fantastic cast boolit rifle and at cast velocities shouldn't be brutal to shoot.

Any thoughts on how hard the boolits should be? I have some lino on hand but am not sure the boolits need to be straight lino for velocities of 1400-1700 fps. I've cast and shot tens of thousands for .40 and .45 pistol but this is my first casting for rifle.

David

[runfiverun]

14 to 17 with a g/c and straight ww's is feasible you could waterdrop 50-50 pure and ww for a bit more accuracy if it's lacking.

[HORNET]

Remington's version of the AR15 is available in .30 Remington if you want the equivalent of a 'Tactical" .30/30. Or you could rebarrel a '93/'95 Mauser to that caliber.

[TCLouis]

If it were I, I would look for a 358 first with 308 close behind. 30-30 or 357 otherwise.

Milsurp it would have to be 8 mm or 30 cal of some description.

H&R "Handi Rifle" will fit your description.

[sundog]

If Wisconsin is a state where firearms are personal property, i.e., private sale between seller and buyer is not regulated (as it should be since firearms are PERSONAL PROPERTY) then shop garage sales and swap meets at gun clubs. Find something you like in 30-30, 32 Win Spl, 35 Rem, or any other caliber (30-06 is good for cast) that tickles your fancy. Then cast for it and go hunting.

As a side note, anywhere that requires owner or buyer ID cards, or registered transfers, or any other **** (read bull $hit) like that, those laws are unconstitutional. Gotta abide by them til changed, but they NEVER should have been enacted to begin with.

[PatMarlin]

Get a 358 Winchester and make your own brass from 308's. Then if you ever find a nice 308 win, you're ready.

[JIMinPHX]

My Microgroove Marlin doesn't like cast, about a 6 inch group at 100 yards.

Which caliber microgroove & what powder are you using?

My microgroove 30-30 shoots cast better than factory ammo, even at similar velocity.