Remington Model 25 32-20

[Wayne Smith]

Does anyone know the relative strength of the Model 25? In looking for rifle loads most if not all that I find are listed for the Win '92. Are these safe in the Remington? Does anyone have any pet loads for the 32-20 in actions stronger than the old revolvers that are not heat treated? I'm keeping them light for my Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector first change cause that's not heat treated. Unfortunately they are very accurate at 25 and 50 yds out of the rifle but about 5" low at 100! I was hoping that this would be more than a 50yd rifle.

[stocker]

Wayne: I shot one of these (carbine model) when I was predator control specialist on Van. Isle. It was my cougar gun of choice due to it's light weight. I also shot some deer and a few black bear with it. Always brain shot. I didn't hand load for it at the time and used the Winchester high speed loading. Thus I can't comment on comparing it to the 92 regarding strength. Had no problems with the factory faster loading though.

[Bret4207]

I'm drooling at the thought of a 25! Unfortunately my pocket book says NO! I'd stick with Starline brass for it's extra strength first off. With hot loads some Win brass I had didn't last so long. I would think the 25 would be adequate for hotter loads, certainly in the lower '92 Win areas at least. If you google Paco Kellys articles on the 32-20 you'll find some real hot loads. work up towards his data.

I've used loads in the 21-2200 fps in my Savage 23 bolt gun. I think it was with 4198 or 4227, the data is out there. I used an 85 jacketed boolit. I really wasn't impressed. I prefer to stick with a 115 gr 311316 at around 16-1700 fps. for coyote sized stuff. That's way too hot for squirrels though.

[Wayne Smith]

I've got the original Winchester 115gr mold. That's the one I'll be using in the rifle, saving the 98gr Keith Group buy for the revolver. Yeah, I'm aware of Paco's prophensity. I like his stuff but you do have to be careful. Haven't read him on the 32-20 though.

[rickster]

I done quite a bit of experimenting and gunsmithing on Rem 25s. Here is what you need to know about strength.

The weak link is the case. Next is the barrel. Last is the action.

The cases will start to stretch at between 25ksi and 30ksi. Winchester is weakest, Remington next and Starline is the strongest.

When the cases stretch it leaves back pressure on the bolt after firing. Extraction will just start to get sticky at 25 to 30ksi because the case will drag on the bolt as it drops down. Keep going up in pressure and the cases will get difficult to extract as they stick in the chamber.

The bolts are made of very high strength alloy steel. I have a 25 that has been reblued. The bolt turned a plum color indicating it is alloy steel.

One of the Mo25s (25-20) I bought turned out to have a blown chamber. I learned this too great surprise when the second case I fired (mild load) split length wise. Upon dis assembly and examination I found the chamber measured about the same as 257 Win Mag. The sides of the receiver were bowed out sightly. The thin web in the receiver below the barrel was split and gapping. I could see no damage to the locking surfaces. I squeezed the receiver back to size as best as I could (it is still bowed slightly). I then rebarrelled the rifle using an old Enfield 303 barrel, cut off, rethreaded and rechambered to 32-20. I also found a good used 25-20 barrel. It screwed on and headspaced/indexed perfectly (Yes, I was shocked). That tells me there was no damage to the action (other than the bowed receiver). IMO, The action is plenty strong. I have run thousands of rounds through this cobbled up gun, and it is a first year production (s/12xx). I am convinced the barrel is the weak link. I dont know what it takes to overload it, but I am guessing the previous owner fired a double charge of fast (pistol) powder in the rifle. I only use powders that fill the case so that I will know if I double charged. That rules out Unique, etc. Just my general philosophy. I also have several Mo 25s in 25-20 and have run some hot loads through them, with no harm done.

Bottom line, let extraction be your guide. If you feel any stickiness, back off. Not that you are in danger. Its just that shooting the 25 is about how nice it handles and cycles, not about power.

OK, with that said, Here are my pet loads.
High power load (use caution!). 13.5gr (up to 15gr max) of H110 with any
bullet weight of 100gr or less. Develops over 2000fps and up to1000ftlbs at
muzzle. LOUD.

High power hard cast bullet load. 14.2gr of 4227 with 115gr Laser Cast (hard
cast silver alloy) bullet. 1750fps

Best general purpose load: 9 grains of SR4759 (not
SR4756!!!) with a 85 to 115gr bullet. 1500fps=+/- Good for almost all bullets (swaged, hard cast, plated, jacketed).

Best plinker: 5gr Trail Boss with 60gr hollow point 32ACP bullet. 1375fps Excellent expansion. Will literally throw a squirrel out of a tree. Accurate.

Best varminter: 13gr SR4759 with 60gr hollow point. 2230fps. Explosive.

Best subsonic (cowboy) load: 5gr Trail Boss 115gr hard cast bullet. 970fps.
Very pleasant shooting but will not expand on game.

Notes on SR4759. This powder is bulky and and is about the same speed as 4227.
It is a great powder for reduced loads. It is impossible to get too much of
this in the case. Use with all bullet weights. Not to be confused with
SR4756, which is a much faster pistol powder. A full case of SR4756 would
surely be too hot.

[Bret4207]

Great post Rickster!

[Mk42gunner]

I have handled several Model 14/141's and have a couple of Model 12's; I have yet to actually get my paws on a Model 25, (but I want too).


Robert

[Wayne Smith]

Thank you, Rickster! Between your post and Paco Kelly's article I have all the information I need, I think. Paco gives three levels of loads, the Rem. 25 clearly is in the middle. He also gives pressure in CUP for his loads.

This rifle was somebody's baby - stock replaced, skip line checkering, initials raised in the checkering, mother of pearl inlay, and a German silver buck head outlined on the stock as well. Somebody probably gave it to his wife.

[rickster]

You are welcome. I am glad to whenever I hear someone is going to shoot these fine little rifles (as opposed to packing them away as collectors)

Sounds like yours was someones pride and joy. Come to think of it, everyone I know that has a 25 is proud of it.

[canyon-ghost]

Developed with a TC contender, 10" barrel and Leupold 4-12 VXII:
Lyman Mold 311008
7.2 grains of 2400
Starline cases, winchester primers
RCBS 32-098-SWC
7.3 grains 2400

Of the two, the 311008 is the easier to adapt to rifle, the other is a lighter bullet for the TC.

Ron

PS: they're to 100 meters from sandbags

[Char-Gar]

Wayne... I have been shooting the 25-20 WCF since 1961 and have never been without one. It is a wonderful small game and short range varmint round (100 yards) for critters up to the size of coyotes. I have also kill a number of Javalina with it. I will confess to shooting one small white tail doe with the round, but that is a stretch. I was close and could put the bullet behind her ear with precision. Both rifles wear receiver peep sight.

Currently I have a Winchester 92 (1911) and a Remington 25. Both are in tip top condition. I shoot the same load in both and have zero trouble with extraction or anything else. I don't run redline loads.

The only load I have used since about 1968 is the one suggested by John Wooters. It is 9 grains of 4227 over Lyman 257312 (90 grains FN GC). This is deadly as above, and delivers excellent accuracy. The Winchester 92 will deliver a smidge more accuracy than the Remington pumpgun, but not enough to make any difference when you move the rifle off the bench rest.

Lyman no longer makes this mold, bu NEI makes a clone. I have never fired a jacketed bullet in any 25-20 rifle.