NRA numbers trivia

[shooterg]

Reading old Rifleman mags (again ! ).
In 1937, NRA had 50,000 members in a country of 129,000,000
In 1954, 300,000 out of 163,000,000
Present day, about 4,000,000 out've 304,000,000.

So, the actual RATE of membership has increased 33 times (3300% ?) since 1937.

Apparently over 1% of us belong now.

Obviously, I have too much time on my hands...

[mike in co]

Reading old Rifleman mags (again ! ).
In 1937, NRA had 50,000 members in a country of 129,000,000
In 1954, 300,000 out of 163,000,000
Present day, about 4,000,000 out've 304,000,000.

So, the actual RATE of membership has increased 33 times (3300% ?) since 1937.

Apparently over 1% of us belong now.

Obviously, I have too much time on my hands...

two questions:

how big is the paid employee base of todays nra compared to 1937 ?

and what % of money spent on nra flagged products actually goes to the nra ?

[Bucks Owin]

Imagine if EVERY shooter belonged to the NRA! There would be no worries about what administration is in the white house, and our gun rights would be restored to pre '68. The left (or right!) would leave THAT many voters alone wouldn't they?!?

[mike in co]

Imagine if EVERY shooter belonged to the NRA! There would be no worries about what administration is in the white house, and our gun rights would be restored to pre '68. The left (or right!) would leave THAT many voters alone wouldn't they?!?

imagine if every gun owner belong to an organization that cared about the 2nd ammendment, and not thier wallets ??

maybe goa or another group...to me the nra is like every politician out there...how to stay employed at my job, not about what can i do for my country.


mike in co

[Echo]

two questions:

how big is the paid employee base of todays nra compared to 1937 ?

and what % of money spent on nra flagged products actually goes to the nra ?

Good questions, Mike. The employee base is probably 33 times what it was in 1937. Some growth is understandable, and necessary, but probably not to the extent that has happened.

And The NRA gets a small (don't know how small or large) percentage of the sale of the products as net profit, which is typical of all sales. If they make 10% net profit, they should be dancing in the street. They are strapped for $$, since so many of their members are, like you and I, legacy members. I've been a Life Member since '68 - they haven't received any dues from me (except for the Endowment and Patron donations) since then. That is why they send us so many fliers touting their goodies. Also the reason they are into credit cards, insurance, &cetera, trying to gather a few bucks here and there.

Mike, I agree with your premise. My guess is that the NRA HQ is padded with employees doing 3 people's jobs with 4 people. As a management consultant for many years, I have seen instances of managers increasing the size of their staff in order to justify their own pay raise (more people to supervise must mean more salary for the manager, doesn't it?). It is the responsibility of the Board to put brakes on general management of the organization, and too often, Board positions are seen as honorary positions, with the board actually having little influence over the operation. There was a scandal several decades ago when an NRA board member was found to also be a contributer/supporter of anti-gun activities - the reason for his being on the board? He voted the right way. I believe his name was True Davis.

So. Mike, shouldn't you & I run for Board membership?

:redneck:

[Bucks Owin]

Like 'em or not, they are THE voice of we shooters and those who don't add their SHOUT to B. Hussein via the NRA may wish they had. This administration is the worst we shooters have faced yet and they hold all the cards! IMO.....Dennis

[mike in co]

the problem is they are part of the political process.
they are part of the existing system.
they are in fact part of the problem...they BELIEVE in compromise....that is loosing in little steps to keep yourself employed.

the missed entirely the osha backdoor attempt at preventing primer sales/shipping.

they did not support the original heller/dc supreme court case.


they don't even admit they are failing....

they need to look in and fix themselves first......

mike in co

[Ricochet]

GOA and the other RKBA groups haven't accomplished a thing. The NRA's not perfect, but if we don't support it, nobody effectively speaks for us. Sniping at the NRA helps no one, except the antis.

[Recluse]

the problem is they are part of the political process.

PART of them (NRA) is part of the political process. That would be the ILA. And why shouldn't they be? Do everyday ordinary citizens decide gun laws? No. I believe politicians decide those kinds of things.


they are part of the existing system.

Meaning what? So is GOA and JPFO and every other second amendment organization and group. So is VFW, American Legion, et al. So is AARP. So is AOPA and EAA. So is. . .


they are in fact part of the problem...they BELIEVE in compromise....that is loosing in little steps to keep yourself employed.

See? Now this is where I get pissed, seriously pissed.

HOW MANY GUN OWNERS do we have in America today? Yet how FEW OF THEM are actually MEMBERS of ANY Second Amendment group?

How many?

Less than FIVE FREAKING PERCENT!

So, if over 50% or 60% or more gun owners were NRA members, you can bet your buttside that there would BE NO NEED TO EVER COMPROMISE.

But that ain't how it is, and respresentative-wise, WE GUN OWNERS ARE OUTNUMBERED.


the missed entirely the osha backdoor attempt at preventing primer sales/shipping.

Is the NRA the only group out there and expected to do everything, everytime including representing 95% of those who won't even give them (the NRA) the time of day, let alone dues money?


they did not support the original heller/dc supreme court case.

Not true.


they don't even admit they are failing....

they need to look in and fix themselves first......

mike in co

No, Mike. . . WE'RE FAILING as gun owners because we're not doing a DAMN THING TO SUPPORT PRO 2A organizations.

WE, as GUN OWNERS, need to look in the mirror and fix OURSELVES first.

Typical "me me me me me" attitudes with 95% of the slug gun-owners out there.

:coffee:

[mike in co]

:coffee:


sorry, but go do your research...nra joined the heller case only after it was accepted by the supreme court.or close to..THEY DID NOT WANT IT TO GET THAT FAR, BUT WERE CAUGHT AGAIN WITH THIER PANTS DOWN WHEN IT WAS ACCEPTED.



and as long as you brought up the aarp..i hope you all understand they are an anti-gun organization...and how many here are members ???
dont believe be call them..read thier ad's liturature.

and yes i am a voting nra member

mike in co

[DevilDog83]

I'm an NRA Life/Endowment member, as is my son, and I'm an NRA Instructor. Is the NRA perfect? NO, but it is the biggest and best that we have. We must support what we have, or try to better it, every one get one new member before the year is out, and we will be that much stronger.

[Pat I.]

Some people just live to point out that behind every silver lining is a touch of grey.

[shooterg]

As a Benefactor Member, I usually only contribute to the ILA and the NRA Foundation(for Range Development). Like many, I think they've strayed from the 1977 convention days of Neal Knox, but the only way to change 'em is from within. I only vote for 5 or 6 Board Members each year for that reason. If another 4M joined and did that , we'd change their strategy(or lack of !) and have twice the voice. I support GOA, Firearms Coalition, my state association, and am a member of an adjacent state association also - but the biggest voice is still the NRA, even though they don't always say what I would ! Many eligible members do not vote in the Board elections - in that respect we're worse than the general population - join, vote for a few good men and women, help twist some arms to make 'em see more things from our viewpoint.

More trivia - less than 13M hunters annually now, back in 1937 I believe I read that 14 million hunted (about 1 in 10) !

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I get so tired of gun owners bashing the NRA. Without them we wouldn't be able to own a cap pistol. I have visited the headquarters in Fairfax and I did not see all that many employees. Wayne LaPirre at times must feel like hanging it up when he hears talk like this. I have seen him on late night T.V. after he had already put in a long day. You could see in his face how tired he was. As gun owners we face a well financed foe. We have no billionaires like George Soros or Micael Bloomberg to help pay our court cost. Those two would gladly give half their fortune to outlaw guns in America. Bloomberg spent 85 million to get reelected mayor. I have seen this fight play out over the last fifty years and I can tell you, they never give up. I have an idea,why don't we shoot ourselves in the foot or better yet let's form a circular firing squad. If I upset someone with these remarks, I will tell you in advance, I really don't care. I could have phrased it more like Rhet did to Scarlet but I thought I would retain just a bit of civility.

[DevilDog83]

All the smaller gun rights organizations are great in what they do, the NRA does what they do, but what I feel will make a difference, is if we all get a few non-shooters out on the range for a day, and teach them how great our sport/passion/right is, and get them involved. Then the next time someone gets all anti-gun around them, they can help set others straight. Just my humble opinion

[Buckshot]

..........Guess they do something right every now and then and especially when someone like Bill Clinton lays the Republican takeover in '94 due to the NRA. They've also be credited as the most effective lobbying group in DC. Do they do EVERYTHING right? No they don't, but what they get right they get VERY right. Right now we have the NRA working on our range modifications.

We were sued by a developer, and lost the court case but the judge said the range could continue in operation if it met certain mitigating modifications. They had to be vetted by, and singed off on by a responsible and recognized 3rd party. The NRA is the only recognized civil organization the court would accept, and they're doing it for free.

..............Buckshot

[Lunk]

I was an NRA member once 11 years ago. I did not renew my membership because they (in my opinion) spent WAY to much of my money on TRYING TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF ME rather than actually fighting for second amendment rights. I started getting renewal notices 4 months into my 1 year membership. I wonder what percentage of the moneys they receive every year actually go to fighting for our rights and how much is spent on just keeping the money machine running? All those glossy mailings are not free.

[Pat I.]

Personally I think it's a dereliction of duty for a gun owner not to belong the NRA. It's alright though since I'm getting pretty used to my money being used to support other people. What I can't seem to get used to is that for the most part the people with the biggest complaints are the one's that don't belong.

The NRA might not be perfect (what is) but it's the best game in town and the 800 pound gorilla the politicians listen to.

[Cactus Farmer]

What Pat said.........

I've been a life member since 1965, a present from my parents, and ,no,I don't like all they do but they are the biggest thing in Washington that does work for us. I believe that without they doing what they do ,guns as we know them,would toast right now.

[Bob.]

I was impressed with how the NRA got the guns back for the people in Orleans.
Who knows I could be in the same boat some day so even if their not perfect and send to much junk mail I will continue to support them as I have for years.
I feel the same way as some of you I just cant get over the # of serious gun owners that complain or worry about the 2nd amendment and don't belong to any pro gun orgs?

Bob

[largom]

I was an NRA member once 11 years ago. I did not renew my membership because they (in my opinion) spent WAY to much of my money on TRYING TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF ME rather than actually fighting for second amendment rights. I started getting renewal notices 4 months into my 1 year membership. I wonder what percentage of the moneys they receive every year actually go to fighting for our rights and how much is spent on just keeping the money machine running? All those glossy mailings are not free.


I get the same notices from the gun Mags. I subscribe to but I continue to subscribe. How often does the collection plate pass around at church? It is all part of the process. The NRA gets the bulk of it's money from the advertisers in their mags. The more members the more magazines and the more exposure the advertisers have which sets the rate for ad costs. Your dues will not cover the costs of receiving the magazine. Plus if you renew way in advance that money can draw interest in their bank before it is applied to your membership.

As others have said, the NRA is not perfect, but it's the best protection we have for our rights. If you disagree with some of their decisions TELL THEM. As a member you have a voice, USE IT. The biggest problem for gun owners is the fact that the majority DO NOTHING. They don't join the NRA , they don't write their congress reps., they do nothing but complain.

Numbers count in D.C. and the NRA needs our numbers!

Larry

[Ricochet]

How much money do you think they would get if they didn't send out those things? Did you wake up this morning and think, "Hmmm, I think I'll send some money to the NRA?" (OR GOA, or whoever you like) It takes money to influence politics. Takes money for everything else the NRA does for us, too.

[MT Gianni]

Actual member #s of voting adults is what impresses politicians. It may be the number that is as important as the money. If it were free to sign up, it would not be as important to the politico's as dues paying. They know how hard fundraising is.

[buck1]

GOA and the other RKBA groups haven't accomplished a thing. The NRA's not perfect, but if we don't support it, nobody effectively speaks for us. Sniping at the NRA helps no one, except the antis.

Well said

[montana_charlie]

Personally I think it's a dereliction of duty for a gun owner not to belong the NRA. It's alright though since I'm getting pretty used to my money being used to support other people. What I can't seem to get used to is that for the most part the people with the biggest complaints are the one's that don't belong.
Picture the NRA as a leaking ship on a rough sea. It is carrying all gun owners, but only 2% are doing the bailing that keeps the ship afloat.

Those who are just along for the ride spend a lot of time complaining about wet feet, and that causes some of the bailers to start looking for a better boat to switch to.

The other boats aren't big enough to hold everybody, and they don't have engines big enough to plow through the kind of wind and waves that surround them. They are only able to stay afloat because they can drift along in the wake of the NRA ship.

If you aren't willing to bail, stay out of the way of those who are...or try swimming.

CM

[DevilDog83]

Excellent analogy, Montana Charlie

[mike in co]

Picture the NRA as a leaking ship on a rough sea. It is carrying all gun owners, but only 2% are doing the bailing that keeps the ship afloat.

Those who are just along for the ride spend a lot of time complaining about wet feet, and that causes some of the bailers to start looking for a better boat to switch to.

The other boats aren't big enough to hold everybody, and they don't have engines big enough to plow through the kind of wind and waves that surround them. They are only able to stay afloat because they can drift along in the wake of the NRA ship.

If you aren't willing to bail, stay out of the way of those who are...or try swimming.

CM

the problem is...IT AINT THAT SIMPLE.

they fleece thier members with things that support outside businesses in the name of the nra, but furnish little funds to the nra.

as long as you insist its the only boat, there is no reason to fix the leaks...cause the members keep on bailing......even after they have spent millions on pumps that dont work....cause they were a compromise design.......

why not just get a better boat..or fix the one you have .....cause i'm too busy bailing!!!!!

mike in co

[Recluse]

the problem is...IT AINT THAT SIMPLE.

they fleece thier members with things that support outside businesses in the name of the nra, but furnish little funds to the nra.

Examples?


as long as you insist its the only boat, there is no reason to fix the leaks...cause the members keep on bailing......even after they have spent millions on pumps that dont work....cause they were a compromise design.......

mike in co

I am firmly convinced that those who incessantly whine about the "compromises" are little more than mental midgets whose understanding of how the political machine operates is on par with Al Gore's understanding on how climatology actually works.

300 million or so citizens in the U.S. 40% are liberal, 40% are conservative and 20% are the swing-voters.

40% of 300 million is 120 million. Liberals, as we know, raise all kinds of hell and make their voices heard. Conservatives, as we know, are masters of political combat so long as it is on closed internet forums and blogs such as this one.

NRA membership is 4 million. 120 million liberals who think the Second Amendment should be hugely restricted, if not outright abolished. They go about it in bits and chunks, and they have a vocal, voting constituency to give them some real clout.

Conversely, I'd dare say that even half of the NRA's membership is content to simply pay their $35 annual dues, and then sit back and bitch that the NRA doesn't do enough. That group doesn't call their elected officals, doesn't write them, sure as hell doesn't send money to ILA, and what's more, doesn't even put the little NRA sticker on their car or wear the NRA hat!

Now, compare the two sides. . . If you honestly think that a ******* Larry Platt "By God NO COMPROMISE, PERIOD!" stance will work on every single 2A issue, then I've got one helluva presidential candidate for you to support in 2012--He's a Muslim from Chicago, who. . . . wait, he's already president. :rolleyes:

Again, we--as gun owners--are our own worst enemy.

:coffee:

[38 Super Auto]

Personally I think it's a dereliction of duty for a gun owner not to belong the NRA.

I agree and I'll go one further: it is a dereliction of one's duty to not become and remain informed on all issues that affect us. As a citizen, WE are the owners of the country and our legislators should not pass any bills and the president should not sign any bills into laws WITHOUT the consent of the governed. That's us - you and me.

So....

Does it work this way? Why not? Because people are too selfish with their time & money, AND lazy - preferring to sit and let others provide for them

How did government become SO large over the last 100 or so years?

How did obama get elected?

Why is it so easy to get govt. aid when there are jobs available (fewer currently) and the person is able bodied?

Why don't all voters contact their congressmen, and senators. Your voice is amplified when you do, because so few citizens take 10 minutes and call, e-mail, or write their elected leaders.

We get exactly the amount and type of government that we tolerate.

Remember also that the bottom 50% of federal taxpayers only carry 3% of the tax burden, so many people are voting for leaders - and hence programs (handouts) that will benefit them without the distasteful requirement of having to PAY for them.

Do we live in a democratic republic anymore or it it morphing into direct democracy? (hint consider the 16th Amendment to The Constitution and the present top-loaded federal income tax code and the answer will become clear)

[dualsport]

Pat nailed it. If you don't belong to the NRA you are a freeloader, deadweight. You can fix that real fast. United we stand, divided we fall. Remember that? You wouldn't even have a gun if it weren't for the NRA. The NRA is us.

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=38 Super Auto;728182]


Remember also that the bottom 50% of federal taxpayers only carry 3% of the tax burden, QUOTE]

SHOW ME SOME PROOF of this statement.


mike in co

[MtGun44]

Can't join our range if you aren't an NRA member and you have to prove
it again every year. I've done a lot on the legislative side for gun owners
over the years, worked directly writing some bills, changing others and
seen how it works from the inside. The NRA is imperfect and irks me to no
end some days. HOWEVER, they are the big dog and have helped us a
whole lot in Kansas over the years. We need more NRA members and
we also need GOA holding down the far right, too. Having the GOA out
there keeps everybody honest and helps provide a fulcrum for the NRA
to leverage off of.

The good news is that we are, very slowly, winning the hearts and minds of
the US population on the 2nd Amendment and gun control. I have always
known that concealed carry had two real reasons that it was important. First,
the obvious fact that a few good guys will shoot or deter some bad guys and
the world will be a better place for it. DUH! Second is far less obvious, but
perhaps more important in the longer run. Hundreds of thousands of ordinary
folks are getting permits and carrying guns. Their friends and relatives know
about it and know that they are nice, normal folks that do not break the law.
Over time we make non-shooters comfortable with the fact that normal folks
carrying around a gun is not a bad thing, and may even be a good thing. This
is a very novel idea to a lot of people and is being steadily reinforced in ~47 states every single
day. Also, we are building an unassailable statistical data base of facts that
good folks DO NOT go off their nut suddenly one day and do bad stuff. Your
neighbor CAN be trusted 99.9999% of the time to be a good guy.

Bill

[Mallard57]

Say what you want but, when the antigunners complain it's about the NRA. Do I like everything they do, no. We better learn to find some common ground between gun owners or we will surely lose everything.
Jeff

[Recluse]

[QUOTE=38 Super Auto;728182]


Remember also that the bottom 50% of federal taxpayers only carry 3% of the tax burden, QUOTE]

SHOW ME SOME PROOF of this statement.


mike in co

I'm still waiting on proof of YOUR statement about NRA's outside business interests that "fleeces" our money away. . .

But if you want proof of the taxpayer statement, look no further than the NTU (National Taxpayers Union) and their break down via IRS figures:

Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

For Tax Year 2007

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

AGI Threshold on Percentiles

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid by Income Bracket

Top 1% $410,096 40.42% of all taxes paid

Top 5% $160,041 60.63% of all taxes paid

Top 10% $113,018 71.22% of all taxes paid

Top 25% $66,532 86.59% of all taxes paid

Top 50% $32,879 97.11% of all taxes paid

Bottom 50% <$32,879 and below 2.89% of all taxes paid

Source: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

:coffee:

[Buckshot]

..............The reason the NRA doesn't have 100 million members is because 95% of that number doesn't think about it much, they're upset because of the begging letters (It ain't funded by the government), they think the NRA is topheavy, they back down or compromise too much, or probably most likely is they're just plain APATHETIC. Too much football, baseball, basketball, Nascar, or other media dreck to eat up their time and resourses. Heck, it'd be nice if all HUNTERS would join let alone all gun owners.

The exact same was brilliantly and sharply illustrated to me very recently. Our state Assemblyman, Bill Emmerson cannot run again in -'10 due to term limits. He's a great conservative both socially and fiscally. A staunch supported of our gunrights. The mayor of a local city is going to be running for his seat, and I got a postcard about a townhall type meeting (one of many, but this one was local) in a couple weeks. The postcard said he was going to introduce himself and then take questions.

In case you didn't know, the liberals that have been elected to the state Senate and Assembly for the past 20 years (and have been in the majority) have flatly bankrupted California. The new candidate is a businessman. A physician who owns a couple urgent care clinics, come to find out. There at the meeting besides him was his wife, his campaign chairperson and another friend of his was me, and 5 others. FIVE PEOPLE! I'll bet a dollar they mailed out maybe 100 postcards or more. Out of all those postcards 6 of us could miss our favorite TV show (I don't have any) to find out about this guy. No wonder this freaking state is run by idiots and morons.

Ditto the federal government, and I'm not lamenting McCain's loseing as he was as big a buffoon as the current occupant. But with the dire straits this state is in, and with the elections a year away you'd sure think that more then 6 people would have shown up. It's no wonder to me that the NRA only has 4 million members. In fact if it wasn't for some parents buying memberships for their kids there'd probably be a million less.

People had REALLY better get with the program and start paying attention to what's being done TO them in their name, and support those who are trying to straighten it out.

..............Buckshot

[Lunk]

I would like to amend my earlier comments. 11 years ago I was much younger and allot dumber and I was quite upset at what I saw as a waste of my money trying to get more out of me. I did not re-up after that first year because I thought the volume of mail they sent me was a waste of my dollars. After reading many of your comments on the subject I went and did some digging to see what the actual financial landscape was for the NRA. Frankly I was shocked. Somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of there income (near as I can figure) comes from membership dues and donations. The rest of the $350+ million they take in every year comes from advertising and merchandise. They claim to have 500 employees and giving them a generous annual salary means they have an annual payroll of under $25 million. I imagine they spend twice that on mailings to members (magazines, renewals, begging for cash etc) and some several tens of millions per year on shooting club projects and I would hope several millions on youth courses etc. This still leaves something like $200 million per year that they can (and do) use to help fight for second amendment rights. This is quite allot. I garnered from these numbers that the annual dues mean far LESS to them per se than the mere fact that as a member you are willing to part with your hard earned money to help add to there voice. I would imagine if membership was free they would have 30-40 million members and it would mean far less as a lobbying tool because people did not have to do anything to join.
That being said I believe that I'm going to join up again.

[TDC]

I don't believe many gun owners or even NRA members understand and can identify the methodology and real basic intention of the anti-gun leftists.

Dealing with such a powerful and committed group of purposeful anti-free enterprise and anti-capitalistic Marxists is a challenge that obviously has destroyed many democratic governments, let alone organizations as small as the NRA. As we have so often observed, these USA Marxists will use any method, say anything, distort anything, misinterpret anything, lie, cheat and steal anything for their causes. They feel perfectly justified and show absolutely no remorse because it's "for their cause.."

These very intelligent and committed people are the adversaries the NRA is dealing with on a daily basis right here in the good ol' USA. We know after the last election well over half our national legislators support or willingly accommodate them and their goals. Anyone at this point who doesn't realize our major network and print press has long been a propaganda arm of the radical left, as well as for full blown Marxist's, hasn't been paying attention for a long time. Many of the perceptions and impressions we have of the NRA have filtered through these same news organizations and anti-gun ownership news presenters for many, many years..

These leftists are expert at and deeply committed to all the concepts that will take us to a world socialistic system that they believe they and their "superior" ilk will naturally administer. We have only to study the progression of Marxism in Eastern Europe to understand the traditional methods they use in achieving their goal..

It is extremely important to them that they destroy the economies of the countries whose citizens would commonly oppose their political and economic concepts. We are seeing that happen in this country right now!! Of course, they believe it's also necessary to disarm any and all citizens who might oppose and resist their desire to "make all our social, economic and educational decisions for us." We are seeing a subtle but unprecedented attempt for those "fundamental changes" occurring right now!!

Divide and conquer is their initial "modus operandi." Unfortunately, we're seeing this kind of negative momentum expressed frequently on rather obscure communication links and internet threads just like this one. The lefts quest to rile us and divide us through class warfare, race warfare, economic warfare is clearly succeeding. We can see it, feel it, hear it and read it everywhere now and this thread is no exception.

We've really got to try to stick together and not let many unsupported observations or assumptions divide us, folks. Our gun ownership and basic freedoms have never been so effectively threatened before. I believe those of us who want those freedoms protected are now frightfully in the minority. We are just one Supreme Court Justice away from the radical left achieving every program they've ever dreamed of. God help us if that happens...

JMHO

[dualsport]

Good for you Lunk. Our strength is in numbers. The NRA has room for improvement, but it's by far the best tool we have.

[jnovotny]

I want to challenge every one of you Life memebers to paying a yearly subscription fee for your magazine. That way they will send me less stuff in the mail begging for money. And also if you don't belong to the NRA then join or keep your 2 cents to yourself. Not ment to offend anyone but if the shoe fits, wear it.

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=mike in co;728214]

I'm still waiting on proof of YOUR statement about NRA's outside business interests that "fleeces" our money away. . .

But if you want proof of the taxpayer statement, look no further than the NTU (National Taxpayers Union) and their break down via IRS figures:

Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

For Tax Year 2007

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

AGI Threshold on Percentiles

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid by Income Bracket

Top 1% $410,096 40.42% of all taxes paid

Top 5% $160,041 60.63% of all taxes paid

Top 10% $113,018 71.22% of all taxes paid

Top 25% $66,532 86.59% of all taxes paid

Top 50% $32,879 97.11% of all taxes paid

Bottom 50% <$32,879 and below 2.89% of all taxes paid

Source: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

:coffee:


i'll look later today, thanks for the link.
now here is my question......
50%(of what?) make less than $33, 000 per year ????
that number seems strange to me...

the inverse is that less than 10% of us tax payers are paying over 60% of all taxes ?

what % of the us budget is funded by ipersonal ncome tax ?
look over the years how this has moved slowly to mostly income tax and less on other taxes.


talk about it later
thanks
mike in co

[Bucks Owin]

Personally I think it's a dereliction of duty for a gun owner not to belong the NRA. It's alright though since I'm getting pretty used to my money being used to support other people. What I can't seem to get used to is that for the most part the people with the biggest complaints are the one's that don't belong.

The NRA might not be perfect (what is) but it's the best game in town and the 800 pound gorilla the politicians listen to.

Amen brother! Anyone who is too cheap/ignorant to spend LESS THAN TEN CENTS A DAY to belong to the ONLY voice that speaks on our behalf and carries any clout in Washington DC should just shut up and slink away IMO. The NRA needs our help now more than any other time in history with this obamanation in the oval office and his willing cohorts on the left and in the media. (Same thing!) And whether you're too dumb to know it or not, you need them!....Dennis :x

[montana_charlie]

Remember also that the bottom 50% of federal taxpayers only carry 3% of the tax burden,
SHOW ME SOME PROOF of this statement.

mike in co
Do you like picures?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/5-us-taxpayers-account-606-all-tax-revenue-47-will-pay-no-federal-tax-2009

CM

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=mike in co;728214]

I'm still waiting on proof of YOUR statement about NRA's outside business interests that "fleeces" our money away. . .

But if you want proof of the taxpayer statement, look no further than the NTU (National Taxpayers Union) and their break down via IRS figures:

Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

For Tax Year 2007

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

AGI Threshold on Percentiles

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid by Income Bracket

Top 1% $410,096 40.42% of all taxes paid

Top 5% $160,041 60.63% of all taxes paid

Top 10% $113,018 71.22% of all taxes paid

Top 25% $66,532 86.59% of all taxes paid

Top 50% $32,879 97.11% of all taxes paid

Bottom 50% <$32,879 and below 2.89% of all taxes paid

Source: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

:coffee:


i'm not sure where you were going with this.

what do you call middle class ? your numbers show they only paid 37%

and of your 50% paying 3%....that number is skewed because aprox 32% owed no taxes...so that 3% payment only coveres 18%( from the second page of YOUR source).

i'll agree 100% that elected officials "buy" votes thru "entitlement" programs....sometimes at the cost of people who actually pay taxes...like social security taxes. ssa pays money to people who never paid a dime in, were not part of the original design, but were added when the plan was working, cause a unreplaced draain, but bought the votes of those the were "benefited". the plab would be on solid footing IF only those that paid the tax were allowed to collect from the program.

mike in co

[Pat I.]

and of your 50% paying 3%....that number is skewed because aprox 32% owed no taxes...so that 3% payment only coveres 18%( from the second page of YOUR source).

i'll agree 100% that elected officials "buy" votes thru "entitlement" programs....sometimes at the cost of people who actually pay taxes...like social security taxes. ssa pays money to people who never paid a dime in, were not part of the original design, but were added when the plan was working, cause a unreplaced draain, but bought the votes of those the were "benefited". the plab would be on solid footing IF only those that paid the tax were allowed to collect from the program.
mike in co

There's something wrong with your reasoning in the first paragraph but I agree 100% with your second. It's a great analogy for what dues paying members of the NRA are doing. A minority paying so the majority can sit back and enjoy the ride for free.

[TAWILDCATT]

mike : what is your problem??you seem to be a very bitter person.at odds with every thing.is it your contention that the NRA should go away.
most of the NRA is not involed with politics it is the official records keeping org in usa.England too has an NRA. their culture has moffed from a conservative to socialist.and into poor and wealthy.is that wat you want.I am on the low pay scale
and always was but I have a good life.
but you have moffed in to bitterness and hate look at yourself.
the only other thing I can think of is your not a gun person but a troll or worse.

[mike in co]

mike : what is your problem??you seem to be a very bitter person.at odds with every thing.is it your contention that the NRA should go away.
most of the NRA is not involed with politics it is the official records keeping org in usa.England too has an NRA. their culture has moffed from a conservative to socialist.and into poor and wealthy.is that wat you want.I am on the low pay scale
and always was but I have a good life.
but you have moffed in to bitterness and hate look at yourself.
the only other thing I can think of is your not a gun person but a troll or worse.

cat,
i own less than 100 guns...but not mush less.
i work in the industry.
i run matches/ i shoot in competition nearly every week....sometimes as much as three matches a week...

but according to you , i'm not entitled to an OPINION.

SORRY, its ok that you do not like me or my opinion, it is the us of a.

mike in co

[StarMetal]

cat,
i own less than 100 guns...but not mush less.
i work in the industry.
i run matches/ i shoot in competition nearly every week....sometimes as much as three matches a week...

but according to you , i'm not entitled to an OPINION.

SORRY, its ok that you do not like me or my opinion, it is the us of a.

mike in co

Mike,

Off topic, I know you're only working gunshows, how the devil you afford to do all that stuff you just mentioned doing?

Joe
P.S. Which nuke sub were you on while in the Navy?

[mike in co]

Mike,

Off topic, I know you're only working gunshows, how the devil you afford to do all that stuff you just mentioned doing?

Joe
P.S. Which nuke sub were you on while in the Navy?

lol..its winter..sorta so less shooting but still do several a month even in full blown winter. i skipped the early morning hours of a show earlier this month to shoot a 200 yd mil match. a few yrs back i shot a 100 yd reduced cmp match...in a falling snow. shoot a winter/foul weather match most years.
i just finished resizing 2500 223 cases.
one of the matches is wed afternoon till about 7 or ,so easy to fit in. but have to leave time for competitive volleyball 2-3 times a week during the winter.

665,662,600 ( 2 fast attacks out of san diego, a boomer out of pearl harbor(guam really)

mike in co

[StarMetal]

lol..its winter..sorta so less shooting but still do several a month even in full blown winter. i skipped the early morning hours of a show earlier this month to shoot a 200 yd mil match. a few yrs back i shot a 100 yd reduced cmp match...in a falling snow. shoot a winter/foul weather match most years.
i just finished resizing 2500 223 cases.
one of the matches is wed afternoon till about 7 or ,so easy to fit in. but have to leave time for competitive volleyball 2-3 times a week during the winter.

665,662,600 ( 2 fast attacks out of san diego, a boomer out of pearl harbor(guam really)



mike in co

The Guitarro, Sand Lance, and Gurnard?

Joe

[TxBaylea]

I keep having the feeling that a lot of the gun owners that have bitches about the NRA are the same ones who do not register and vote. These things cost them time and money so they ride on the backs of those that do support the NRA and who vote.

In many ways they are like the bottom few percent of citizens that have enjoyed riding on the backs of those that are productive.

I have also had words with shotgun owners I know who think that they don't have to support the pro 2A activities because their shotguns are no threat to anyone and won't be confiscated.

Vernon

[Lunk]

I have also had words with shotgun owners I know who think that they don't have to support the pro 2A activities because their shotguns are no threat to anyone and won't be confiscated.

Vernon

I would imagine that shotguns would be some of the last guns confiscated BUT if it ever comes to a general firearms confiscation in this country those would go too.
Just too dangerous to the jackbooted thugs when they kick in your door. And just think of the criminals rights! :kidding:

Like England has. :groner:

[mike in co]

The Guitarro, Sand Lance, and Gurnard?

Joe
CLOSE..the 600 is the roosevelt..the boomer/missle boat

[mike in co]

I keep having the feeling that a lot of the gun owners that have bitches about the NRA are the same ones who do not register and vote. These things cost them time and money so they ride on the backs of those that do support the NRA and who vote.

In many ways they are like the bottom few percent of citizens that have enjoyed riding on the backs of those that are productive.

I have also had words with shotgun owners I know who think that they don't have to support the pro 2A activities because their shotguns are no threat to anyone and won't be confiscated.

Vernon
tx....
i would hope that was not directed at me...cause.....
for the record, i have voted in every state/national election since i was old enough to vote......

mike in co

[mike in co]

guys,
have you ever noticed how stupid some of the management of the nra is ?

a couple years back they schedule an nra convention...in colorado.

now that is nice since i live here, but for those that do not understand the politics of the state, it is like several western states. the big cites are democrate/socialist/bottomfeeders, and the rural areas are working stiffs/farmers/ gunowners.
the two worst areas of the state are the city and county of denver and the city of boulder. the city of denver has imposed "home rule" on the recently passed "shall issue" ccw state law....that means the state law on shall issue DOES NOT APPLY in thier city, and they do not recognozed the right in thier city...even with a permit from another county.
now with all the hotels and facilities in this state, where do you think the brillant planners of the nra book thier convention?
right...right in denver!....putting funds in the coffers of city that battles against gun rights in court!

idiots!!!!

and you wonder why i questiong what they do and how they do it.

mike in co

[Recluse]

guys,
have you ever noticed how stupid some of the management of the nra is ?

a couple years back they schedule an nra convention...in colorado.

now that is nice since i live here, but for those that do not understand the politics of the state, it is like several western states. the big cites are democrate/socialist/bottomfeeders, and the rural areas are working stiffs/farmers/ gunowners.
the two worst areas of the state are the city and county of denver and the city of boulder. the city of denver has imposed "home rule" on the recently passed "shall issue" ccw state law....that means the state law on shall issue DOES NOT APPLY in thier city, and they do not recognozed the right in thier city...even with a permit from another county.
now with all the hotels and facilities in this state, where do you think the brillant planners of the nra book thier convention?
right...right in denver!....putting funds in the coffers of city that battles against gun rights in court!

idiots!!!!

and you wonder why i questiong what they do and how they do it.

mike in co

You're right!

I say, let's just have the NRA Annual Meetings only in Texas and Florida and Arizona and Montana from now on.

Good thing the civil rights movement didn't think like you, else they never would've come down south. Good thing the NRA doesn't think like you or they might never have bothered helping push Castle Doctrine and CCW laws in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Missouri, et al.

Yep, when it comes to our civil rights, let's only go places where we're loved.

:coffee:

[mike in co]

You're right!

I say, let's just have the NRA Annual Meetings only in Texas and Florida and Arizona and Montana from now on.

Good thing the civil rights movement didn't think like you, else they never would've come down south. Good thing the NRA doesn't think like you or they might never have bothered helping push Castle Doctrine and CCW laws in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Missouri, et al.

Yep, when it comes to our civil rights, let's only go places where we're loved.

:coffee:

so you think it is SMART to SUPPORT the anti-gun people with pro-gun money ? some how i just cannot get my brain around that.
this is not about exposure. this was a CLOSED event to members only.

you would get the same exposure in the city next door...WITHOUT giving money to the enemy.

this is about avoiding a couple of towns...it is not about avoiding colorado. maybe you need some geography lessons.
in the denver metro area there are 9-10 counties...a couple of dozen cities.....denver county is only 2 of those.......some of those other cities actually have them new convienecies called hotels, some of them have meetin' halls......

mike in co

[Recluse]

so you think it is SMART to SUPPORT the anti-gun people with pro-gun money ? some how i just cannot get my brain around that.
this is not about exposure. this was a CLOSED event to members only.

mike in co

Granted, the Annual Meeting in Denver struck me as odd, however there are a lot of NRA members who live out west and cannot afford to journey all the way to Charlotte or Orlando or Pittsburgh or Richmond.

The meeting moves around each year so that more members can have the opportunity to attend based upon geographical proximity.

If it were up to me, I'd never hold an NRA-anything in sewers like NYC or Chicago or San Francisco or Seattle.

However, the Constitution and the Second Amendment applies to every single citizen of this country, no matter where they live. Lot of gun owners in NYC, Chicago, San Fran and Seattle. If they are continually ignored simply because they live in an anti-gun city, eventually they are goin to give up. Then they lose for good.

But again, I stress that if even half of all gun owners were NRA members, the words "anti-gun" city would become history.

:coffee:

[snowtigger]

[QUOTE=38 Super Auto;728182]


Remember also that the bottom 50% of federal taxpayers only carry 3% of the tax burden, QUOTE]

SHOW ME SOME PROOF of this statement.


mike in co

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/reports/factsheetwhopaysmostindividualincometaxes.update.p df

Follow this link, it will take you to the Department of the Treasury website. It shows who pays taxes and who doesn;t/

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=mike in co;728214]

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/reports/factsheetwhopaysmostindividualincometaxes.update.p df

Follow this link, it will take you to the Department of the Treasury website. It shows who pays taxes and who doesn;t/

i already answered that one...go back and read.