Talk to me about 9mm

[chemist308]

I've cast round nose 158s from wheel weights for 38 special loads with good success. I enjoyed the casting process and really enjoyed loading without the added cost of buying pre-fabbed bullets. Ammo prices have gone through the roof. Range trips with the 357 are so much cheaper now. But my carry guns are 32 ACP (in a junk model) and a S&W 9mm semi auto. Shooting the 9mm is well...expensive to say the least.

The 9mm stuff I buy is fmj copper jacketed. Why? Is it realistic to think that I can cast for my 9mm? I know wheel guns are a LOT more forgiving in what you feed them.

Anyone here casting for a 9mm? Do you do anything different (alloys, wrapping, etc)? How well does it work? Will it work for a Smith and Wesson Sigma my gun (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14820&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15713&isFirearm=Y)?

[Char-Gar]

The various 9mms do OK with cast bullets. They are not the most cast bullet friendly pistol in the world (like the 45 ACP) but they will do. Most have a fairly fast (1-10) twist.

I have an old NEI mold that throws a 124 grain bullet that looks like a scaled down 200 grain 45 ACP truncated swc bullet. It does well giving nice round groups about the size of good 9mm FJM ball ammo.

I size the bullet .358 and load it over either 5 grains of Unique or 5.5 grains of an older lot of AA5. Plenty of recoil to work any action, but not a full snort load. Something around 1 to 1.1 K fps I am guessing. Doesn't matter as it works fine.

I don't know why NEI doesn't make this mold any more. I bought mine in 1985 and it was old stock on a dealers shelf at the time. Also works good in the 38 special for a light bullet load. There is no crimp groove, but a taper crimp works fine.

I have not looked at their catalog in some time, so I went back and checked. They offer a beveled base version of this bullet listed at 115 grains (112A) The box on mine says 115 grains also, but the bullets weight 122 - 124 depending on alloy.

[454PB]

There's no reason you can't cast for 9mm. I own 4 of them, and they all shoot cast just as well as jacketed. The only caveat is to not assume a .355" cast boolit will shoot well. All my 9mm's like .357" diameter.

[lwknight]

I know that a lot of people have great success with 9mm boolits. I did not.
This is the only gun that I own that ever had leading issues.

My first problem is likely that I had the loads a might warmish to cycle my gun that hates light loads and I used 124 grain boolits.
I dropped a 124 grain jhp bullet into the chamber and measured to the base of the bullet. My measurement was .720 which means that if I seat a bullet/boolit deep enough to stay in the case and feed through the magazine that there would be 3/16 to `1/4" free jump to the riflings.
1/4" is about all the driving band that there is in the TC 124 grain boolits.
Either I had gas bypassing the boolit before entering the barrel or I may have been kicking the boolit into pre obturation. or both.

Two possible solutions that I theorized and have not proven yet are:

1. use heavier boolit that can be shot at lower velocity.

2. polish the chamber to a high lustre because the P-95 ruger has a rough barrel entry anyway.

As far as OAL, if it fits the mag, you are good to go. If it does not go into battery , you need to clean the chamber.
My P-95, SW 5906 and Tarous 24/7 all digest anything that gets put into it.
I think that generally speaking the 9mm,s are not so picky as a lot of people think.

Maybe this will give something to ponder anyway.

[chemist308]

There's no reason you can't cast for 9mm. I own 4 of them, and they all shoot cast just as well as jacketed. The only caveat is to not assume a .355" cast boolit will shoot well. All my 9mm's like .357" diameter.
Interesting. As is the reply about maybe using a heavier bullet weight. Maybe my 38 special mould would be something to try before buying another mould...

[mike in co]

nose shape can cause a feeding issue with some 9's.

dia is an issue.

not much crimp need, and its a taper crimp vs a roll crimp in the 357.

you can shoot anywhere from 800 to 1300 fps depending on boolit weight, alloy /lube and your gun.


mike in co

[Firebricker]

Cast is all I shoot in 9mm with no problem just watch OAL and like Mike said watch how much crimp. I like RCBS 147gr FN but a lighter boolit might be better for defence loads.
FB

[Echo]

I cast the Lyman -402 boolit for my *** Walther P1, and have no problems other than a pattern 25 yds rather than a group. No leading, no malfunctions - still have to work up a load...

[chris in va]

Not the best accuracy with the TC 124's I bought. Haven't fired them yet but whipped up the Lee version of the TC 124 recently and I hope they are more accurate.

Watch that shape and chambering! Mine wouldn't chamber until 1.04oal in my HiPoint carbine or CZ 75. The Kahr isn't so picky but it has poly rifling and I am leery of putting too many rounds through it, so I had to buy some FMJ just for that gun.

[Cloudpeak]

I've shot around 20,000 rounds of Lee 105gr SWC and Lee 124gr LRN bullets through a: M&P, CZ75 Compact, STI Trojan and Kahr CW9 and have been happy with the results.

Here's a 5 shot group out of my STI shot at 7 yards from a bench.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/WyoBob/Targets/DSCN1867.jpg

[JIMinPHX]

I've loaded cast for several 9's. All the ones that had non-pitted barrels worked well with at least 1 type of cast boolit. One gun with a tight throat did not like anything that was sized above .356". Otherwise, it would shave a ring of lead & clog up the chamber, then not want to go into battery. Another, more heavily worn one, would lead the barrel badly with anything smaller than .359". Be sure to slug your barrel. The 9's really seem to vary in actual size more than most other calibers do.

I generally like the Lee 105 gr swc for target loads & the Lee 125gr rnfp for general purpose use. The rnfp will do a nose dive jam in some guns though. Make up a dummy round & check that first before loading up a bunch of them. You can usually correct that problem with some magazine lip adjustments, but you can also wreck your magazines if you do a poor job of it.

[9.3X62AL]

Lotta good info above.

I REALLY like the Lee truncated cone autopistol mould designs, they have fed well in all of my 9mm pistols by seating them with about .020" of the front drive band outside the case mouth.

DO NOT install a strong taper crimp in any cast boolit autopistol load. You are likely to resize the boolit smaller. Only straighten any "bell" or flare out, NO MORE.

Treat a 9mm like a rifle--and it will treat you well. By this, I mean to adhere closely to the pistol's dimensional personality--and you'll be free of leading and inaccurate reloads.

[Leftoverdj]

Interesting. As is the reply about maybe using a heavier bullet weight. Maybe my 38 special mould would be something to try before buying another mould...

Yup, you're probably already casting 9mm. A few long nosed designs won't work, but a lot of 158 grain bullets will. Feeding is an individual matter. Try it and see. I'd leave the bullets at .358 if a loaded cartridge will drop into the chamber.

I much favor the heavyweight bullets in 9mms with cast. They generally have more bearing surface and a much reduced velocity which seem to help with the ridiculously fast twist. I've had no leading or accuracy problems with an absurd variety of 9mm guns although I've had minor problems with length and feeding.

The straight blowbacks can take some watching, though. Had a Marlin Camp Carbine that needed reduced loads with the heavy bullets or the cases came out looking like the snake that swallowed the rabbit. Heard of the same thing happening with a High Point. Doesn't happen in guns with heavier bolts or locked breaches.

[missionary5155]

GOOD MORNING
My dad was involved in casting with his Navy buddy. I grew up with the thinking that lead boolits were the way all things were loaded. the 22 was lead, the shotgun used lead, dad's 38's used lead..... When I got my first 357 (Dan Wesson) it got a steady diet of lead. Then one day I came across a P-38. I did not know NOT to get a .356 mold and have at it. Shot just fine with Lymans suggested 9mm loads! Then found a S&W 439 (cheap police turnin) and it shot the same loads. So those are the only 9mm's I have and want.
For self defence I use 50/50 mix. It will expand some at 900 fps. Better at 1000. That si what my 5 shot 41 Taurus Titanium (185 SWC) is loaded with.
9mm is minimal for stopping angry bodies over 125 pounds. A 147 grain is far better than the light weights. Remember the history of handgun developement. Read-up about real life military use today. Why do the Special Ops people NOT use the 9mm ? Handguns NEED a heavy lead bullet to do the damage. The brain,spine & heart are not easy targets in a fast happening gunbattle. Multiple hits with thin boolits are usual. Angry aggresors can absorb alot of metal.
CC... I carry the largest bore I can COMFORTABLY conceal. In Peru that is a 5 shot 38 with 165 1-30mix boolits on top of 4.5 grains Unique. Not for everyday practice by the way. Here in the faciast state of ILL. there are moments when that 5 shot 41 no longer resides near the bed. Light,large bore.... why does not some one make a titanium caliber.45 ACP 1911?

[MT Gianni]

I have had good results with the 356402 120 gr TC and better results with the 358242 124 gr RN. I also do OK with the Ly devastator HP mold but don't remember the number. I have not had success with the tumble lube Lee molds but others have. I treat lead and jacketed as two different animals in the 9. Lead gets plinkers, targets and paper, jacketed get screamers when needed. Start slow and find what alloy works for your twist then write it down.

[GBertolet]

9mm works fine with cast bullets.You should stick with the larger diameters I.E. .356 and .357 diameters irregardless of what you bore slugs at. You can use your 38 cal 158 gr RN in the 9mm. You should size them down to the previous mentioned diameters, as I don't think a .358 will chamber. Lyman lists in one of my cast bullet manuals loads for their 158gr RN. A potential problem with heavy bullets in the 9mm, is the case is slightly tapered inside, and with a longer bullet, you will have to seat it deeper, and may get a bulge in the loaded round at the base of the bullet. The 147gr 9mm bullets are tapered towards the base to compensate for this. This bulge can be gotten rid of if it affects chambering, by using a Lee carbide factory crimp die, running the loaded round through, which will swage the bulge out. Additionally your gun may shoot higher with the heavier bullet. If you have fixed sights this could be a problem. In spite of all these potential hurdles, this is a plausable project. Try it and see. If you need data for the 158gr, PM me and I will send it to you.

[vincewarde]

I am a cast bullet newbee - the 9mm is only the 3rd caliber I have cast for. Today I developed my load. Zero leading, good accuracy. How did I do it? I just listened to the good advice in this forum.

1) I slugged the bore - and discovered that it's actually .3565

2) I cast using linotype, the bullets dropped at .358. Since this is just a bit more than .001 oversized, I just pan lubed them and loaded them up.

3) I worked up a load using Unique. I settled on 4.8gr. My PT92 functioned fine. No signs of leading or high pressure.

Now I am ready to load up a few hundred :)

Thanks to all of the experienced folks who make this forum so informative.

[NickSS]

I have loaded cast bullets in 9mm for years. Currently I use either a Lee 120 gr TC or a Lee 125 gr RF bullets sized to 356 in my pistols. I use those bullets because I have six cavity molds in both and they give me good accuracy in my pistols. The only pistol that does not do well is the baby eagle I have. It has polygonal rifling and I think I need to fire fatter slugs. I plan to size some to .358 and see if that makes a difference. Its a new pistol and I am still working on it.

[curator]

I load the old Lee 358-150 2R in my 9mms with great results. The longer bearing surface seems to make all the difference in the accuracy department. I cast them of wheel weight alloy and water drop quench for a hardness of BHN 22. I size to .3575 even though my bores average .356. A taper crimp keeps them from being pushed back as the hard bullets ride the loading ramp

[kawalekm]

I have a Ruger P-89 and a Walther P1. Neither has ever been shot with anything besides cast. Ruger will digest anything I make for it, while the P1 has a little tighter chamber and I need to taper crimp all ammo that goes into that. You might want to try using some of your 38 bullets, sized to fit your gun. Here's a pic of Lyman's 358477 bullet sized to .356". When taper crimped it feeds and fires flawlessly from either gun, loaded with 6.0 grains of blue dot. Doesn't look like it would feed, but it does.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mm_150grainSWC.jpg

[Ricochet]

Doesn't look like it would chamber with that top band that far out of the case mouth. Your 9 must have a long throat.

[vacek]

In the last year or two, Mike Venturino had a good article or two that talked about cast for 9mm. I learned a lot from reading that.