Trail Boss and the 30-06

[Mr Humble]

As there is no data for anything but pooper loads for Trail Boss, I thought I'd try to duplicate 30-40 Krag Performance with a 210 NEI and Trail Boss. Having a BOSS equipped M 70 with a 3-9 Leupold European gathering dust and figuring no Trail Boss load would take it apart, I tried 15 grains and got this at 50 yards.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3050.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN2785.jpg

I've loaded up a bunch more with 15, 17, 19 and 21 gr. All are highly bulking (no filler required) and will see if the pressure shows any signs of rising. The 15 gr load was like shooting a blank! No powder residue either.

Funny the Hodgden treats it as a pooper powder when it MAY have possibilities to give mid level cast bullet performance without the need for fillers.

More to follow.

[dubber123]

I've only used it in straight wall cartridges, and was pleased with it in every instance. I don't know if you are aware, but it is highly recommended you NOT compress TB at all. It gets very spikey in the pressure department. If any of you loads are compressed, I'd pull them.

With a powder this fast, I might also suggest only jumping maybe 1/2 grain increments. In the straight wall cases, stuff happens FAST when the charge approaches the boolit base. I can only imagine a bottleneck case would be worse in this respect. Good luck.

[Mr Humble]

IME/IMO here as with many things gun related, myth and opinion substitute for tested facts.
Today I shot the 15, 17, 19 and 22 gr loads in the M-70. No drama the Remington nickle cases fell out of the gun although only neck sized. The primers looked like they had been fired w/o powder and bullet. Only the 22 gr load was slightly compressed.
Here are the results. Note regular CCI 200 primers were used, bullets were not segregated for weight and varied from 207-210 grains. Mixture was wheel weight. lube SPG, sized .309 and seating depth set to have the driving band fully engage the lands.

The results are pretty clear and I'll be fooling around between 17 and 21 grains once my Chrony reappears and I can see how close to my Krag surrogate I can come.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3055.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3056.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3057.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3058.jpg

[Bullshop]

I think the assigned number for trail boss on my burn rate chart has it at about the same speed as 4227.
I also think that you will find in the Lyman books that for the 30/06 about 20gn 4227 will be an average charge weight depending on boolit weight.
I developed a very accurate load in a 35 Whelen with the 280gn Lyman RNGC using 21gn 4227.
You say that 22gn TB was slightly compressed but going by burn rate comparison that would still be in the normal range for the burn rate.
Going by this I would think that using load data for 4227 in bottle neck rifle cases with cast boolits should be safe. Sound reasonable. I think that if we do a side by side comparison we may find that equal weight charges of either powder with the same boolit in the same case will give about the same velocity.
I bought a keg of TB last week and God willing time permitting I may run a comparison.
BIC/BS

[schoolbus]

Mr. Humble, thanks for your post. I've been thinking about trying TB in my 270W using my RCBS 270-130 FN. You have given me a very good place to start.

[Mr Humble]

The only advice I'd give is the smaller the bullet the harder to get accuracy. My .411 NEI will work in anything that's .411 but a .224 Ideal is a bit-- with about a 70% reject rate.

[dk17hmr]

There are published loads for 30-06 with Trailboss using jacketed bullets. I tried the same "max" charge with cast bullets and got good results. What type of velocity are you getting?

[clearwater]

Hodgdon recomends staying between 70 and 100 percent usable case
capacity for this sort of load. That is, no compression.

[RU shooter]

I think the assigned number for trail boss on my burn rate chart has it at about the same speed as 4227.
BIC/BS Maybe the 2007 IMR manual I have has been updated but They list approx burn rate for TB between 700X and PB. ?


Tim

[Mr Humble]

Just got my Chrony back so as soon as the wind gets below 20 and wind chill below -40, I'll do some more shooting.

[Mr Humble]

Tried 19 of TB today and could only get 1400 fps. Anymore and accuracy goes to hell, so TB will not get me to my Krag load so time to move on. Firing up the pot again and gonna try Varget with & w/o fillers as it will push jacketed 220s well beyond the 1900-2000 fps needed to make a 30-40 surrogate.

[Bullshop]

Try its burn rate twin 4227. That will get you there.

[Mr Humble]

4198 got me there too, but accuracy was not too good past 50. Varget is a medium burner and should exert less heat and stress launching the bullet. Have loaded Unique, 2400 and 4227 for years and they work well with moderate loads but IMO a medium burner should be better in this big case with 1900 fps+ loads just as it is with jacketed bullets.

[Bullshop]

Another way to get there using a milder slower push is with powders that are too slow for the case size, like 5010.
A 100% density load with 5010 with the 200gn boolit should get you to that 2000 fps in the 06 case maybe even a bit more.
A while back those real slow 50 bmg powders were real cheap from the surplus sellers. I was getting them for between $3.00 and $6.00 per lb. by the keg. Now I doubt it.
If economy is a concern I think the 4227 burn rate will be the one to get the 2000 fps with a 200gn boolit.
BIC/BS

[madsenshooter]

Then there's 40gr of 4350, pretty much the standard load for the Krag with 220gr jacketed bullets, and a load that Jeff from NZ has had good results with in .303. A few grains more for the higher capacity case and you should have your 2000fps,with an even slower, gentler push than Varget.

[Mr Humble]

Tried 4759 and 4198 with filler...yuk, speed but no groups. I just happen to have a can of 50 BMG kicking around that I bought for my 244 H&H (no joy) you also have me thinking about H869 which is wonderful in the 244 H&H and 22-06 pushing 40-85 grainers at 4200-3600 fps. More to follow.

[swheeler]

Just got my Chrony back so as soon as the wind gets below 20 and wind chill below -40, I'll do some more shooting.
I sincerely hope you mean "wind chill ABOVE -40"

[Mr Humble]

No..... real men like -40 wind chill (as long as it's outside and I'm not!)

[frank505]

19 grains of 4759 with a 311284 will shoot right over the front sight at 50 yards when my 1903 is sighted three inches high at 100 yards with the 240 grain Woodleigh. Kinda handy for making quiet holes in stuff.

[johnly]

I use TB in my 1903A1 with a 311334 cast from WW sized to .311"

I got the best accuracy at 11.0 grains.

John

[frank505]

johnly does this load bulk and is the powder visible down the case neck? i need to try it, might be even quieter than 19 of 4759.

[Mr Humble]

Colder than a well digger's butt and leaving for Key West 12/9 for 6 months, so Monday will probably be last shooting until next June (no ranges within 130 miles of KW). Gonna try H869 and 50 BMG just for grins (the slow start idea), then I can spend my days there casting boolits when it's too windy for this:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/karendolphin.jpg

[Mr Humble]

Tried the "accurate" Lyman load of 4759 (yuk), 4198 with dacron (yuk), 50 BMG slightly compressed ,about 2" @50 and then my old favorite in the 22-06 and 244 H&H (jacketed screamers). Used standard LR primers at 16 below (an error as I had two hangfires) BUT the results show promise @55 gr. More to follow next June when it's back to WY from FL.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN3069.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

I've had some decent results with 55.0-60.0 grains of WC-860 and #311291 in 30-06. Velocities ran from 1950 FPS to 2150 FPS, little or no bore trash (unburned powder flakes), and acceptable accuracy.

I recently bought a Lee 200 grain mould, and am anxious to give these a test drive in the new-to-me 30-06 that has MUCH BETTER internal dimensions than the 2 prior Winchester bolters I was running. WC-860 will be one of the powders used.