2400 and Primers...

[jdgabbard]

Ok, I've used 2400 with my 357mag plenty of times. And I love it. But, I've noticed on several of the threads on 2400 where some of the members stated that they don't even bother with magnum primers.

Now I've personally used them, but am curious, is 2400 one of those powders that really doesn't require a magnum primer, and did you see any notable difference in performance over the magnum primer?

[canyon-ghost]

2400 may be a magnum powder but, it's also used without a magnum primer in other cartridges, my 32-20 pistol load for one. The powder works great for pistols and my TC Contenders where bringing a bullet up to speed quickly is required. 100 meters from a 10" barrel is a feat that takes that type of acceleration without going magnum.
Wonder if that is what you're seeing, Ron

[Rocky Raab]

You'll see comments a lot like "It left some unburned powder, so I went to magnum primers."

Ignore them. Elmer said, Skeeter said and now Alliant says to use standard primers with 2400. Trying to fix unburned powder kernels with a hotter primer is an erroneus response. If you load light loads with any powder designed for high pressures, it will not burn completely. Period. Adding a hotter primer blast can't help that, but it can introduce variables you don't want.

Old faithful 2400 is a good powder, but it is not a powder that does everything well. Reduced loads is one of the things it doesn't do well. Up towards its "happy place" of pressure, it will burn cleanly - with standard primers.

[35remington]

Well, 2400 will produce good, accurate loads at reduced levels......so I'd say it does do reduced loads very well, as a lot of guys, including myself, do use it for that specific purpose.

It's probably one of the very best powders for reduced loads with cast bullets, and is one of my favorites. As it is with many guys on this board.

Now, I understand Rocky was saying it doesn't necessarily burn the cleanest when pressure levels are greatly reduced and I of course agree, but it makes a good powder anyway in many instances.

It can and does do reduced loads very well. Besides, a great many powders don't burn all that clean at low levels of pressure, not just 2400.

5744, that powder that is know for its cast bullet suitability, burns rather dirtily, and unburned powder grains can be shaken out of the case after firing with many of my favorite loads. That lack of perfectly clean burning doesn't mean it doesn't do reduced loads very well, either.

The important point is to get off the cleanliness fixation and judge how it shoots. Everything else is secondary to that.

[Rocky Raab]

Amen, and well written.

[jdgabbard]

5744, that powder that is know for its cast bullet suitability, burns rather dirtily, and unburned powder grains can be shaken out of the case after firing with many of my favorite loads. That lack of perfectly clean burning doesn't mean it doesn't do reduced loads very well, either.

The important point is to get off the cleanliness fixation and judge how it shoots. Everything else is secondary to that.

Completely agree with that statement! My go to load with any 38spl is 4.2g of Unique under just about any 150-160g SWC (or the 358311). That load with the Lee TL-SWC for example is a pretty stout load in my Taurus 85UL and my Ruger SP101. The felt recoil is about like shooting full magnum loads in my 65 Smith. And its also one of the dirtiest loads I've come to love. I'm always getting unburned powder in the action and the cases. But it gives me +/- 0.80 groups at 25 yards in my 65 Smith.

I save my magnum primers for the H110 and the 4227 I have stocked up. That is if I ever use it. Now I'm seeing why all the old school casters have so much powder in ancient canisters. They find a couple of powders that do exactly what they want, but also seem to be almost universal!!! Those two may sit on the shelf for years to come...

[Shiloh]

Have you chronographed the loads?? I'd be interested in knowing the extreme spread and standard deviation. If the Chrono doesn't do those measurements for you, what are the high, and low velocity??

Shiloh

[jdgabbard]

No, I don't own a Chrony... Wish I did.... Thats one reason I'm calling on you guys, to see what you're experiences are...

[canyon-ghost]

:coffee: The easy way to own a chronograph, is just wait until someone has them on sale. I caught Shooting Chronys on sale at MidwayUSA and bought an F1. It's the simple one, pop in a nine volt battery and go to it. No remote, no printer, no bs. It does shot strings and deviations and is the cheapest you can get. For $80, a man can sit around and wait on the overstock sale.
I like it, too.

Ron

[Mavrick]

2400 is a clean(little or no retardant) powder that needs not have magnum primers. WW296 and H110 and SOME of the other slow burners need mag primers because they are covered in retardant. Mag primers only jump pressures with 2400. It's too easily lit.
The people that made it and the old masters said not to use mags....Hmmm, guess so.
Yes, I tested the idea... Don't need to now. Mostly I use an M57 S&W. I have CCI350, Fed 155, Win WLPM. Many things to be learned if you don't get into information overload. Keep good records.
Have fun,
Gene

[NHlever]

Some of the newest manuals, Speer for example, have retested their data with standard primers, and they got higher velocities, and more consistant pressures. They are now saying not to use magnum primers with that powder. Shades of Elmer Keith!

[MG34]

I can not count the 8 pound kegs of 2400 I shot out of my Model 29. I bought my 44 soon after Dirty Harry came out in 1971 or 72.

[sniper]

IIRC, years ago, one of my Lyman reloading manuals had a note concerning 2400 which said they found better consistency and accuracy with standard primers.

I can't find it, but I've had good luck with the standard primers.

[That'll Do]

I've used both magnum and standard primers with 2400 for 357 Magnum loads, and I've found that standard primers give better results (accuracy and consistency).

In a pinch I'll use magnum primers, but standard seems best.

[exile]

So you guys are saying not to use magnum primers with 2400? Right? I just bought a .41 magnum and was planning on using 2400. I suppose it would not hurt to use magnum primers since that is what the manuals suggest, but from what I am hearing you all have better luck with standard primers. Thanks.

exile

[Three44s]

Use Standard primers with 2400.

It's safer.

Better accuracy.

Elmer won't get mad.

Three 44s

[exile]

I wouldn't want to do that. One of my favorite parts in "Hell I Was There" was the sheriff who said he was going to arrest him (or shoot him, I don't remember) and wimped out. Every time Elmer saw him on the street he would make him walk around him. We need more like Elmer in this day and age.

The first time I read "Hell I Was There" I checked it out of a library in Iowa City. It was autographed by Mr. Keith with a note to the purchaser. It was all I could do to return it, but I did.

Sorry, 1:40 a.m. and the acid reflux is keeping me up again.

exile

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly ive used a ton of it and have used both stand. and mag primers with it. I can honestly not give a blanket statement as to which work best. It all depends on what your trying to do with it. What i do when working up a load is kind of figure what from past experience is going to be better at the load level im using and load say 3 differnt primers. If stad worked better at that load level i load 3 differnt std. primers but ill allways load one batch with some kind of a mag primer to see if my groups are better. Same goes the other way. Ive seen it many times where a load shot into say 3 inches and alot of guys including me would give up on that load and just switching to a mag primer closed it right up. To me 2400 is like hs6 and 4227 its a borderline powder that might work better with any one of them with a certain load.

[Rex]

Amen to Lloyd's statement. Except if this old man got a group as good as Lloyd's bad ones he was all smiles.
Rex

[Big Dave]

used quite a lot of 2400 over the years, never used mag primers. Personal preference in barrels under 6 inch is Unique, dirty, so what, doesn't throw a muzzle flare 5 feet long out of a short barrel either. 2400 is go to for 410 shotgun and smaller case rifles. If i want reduced loads for pistol use Bullseye.

[Bass Ackward]

Ok, I've used 2400 with my 357mag plenty of times. And I love it. But, I've noticed on several of the threads on 2400 where some of the members stated that they don't even bother with magnum primers.

Now I've personally used them, but am curious, is 2400 one of those powders that really doesn't require a magnum primer, and did you see any notable difference in performance over the magnum primer?


I have found that this like every other powders depends on your dies. With .002 neck tension, magnum primers performed the best but just barely. At .004 standard primers showed a marked difference and superiority. And sizing on down eventually magnum primers narrowed the gap and came back in actually outperforming standard primers at about .008 of case neck tension.

So it really depends on what your dies size to, your beller opens to, and what bullet diameter that you end up needing plus the guns bore condition.

Bottom line, you just have to try them.

[Three44s]

Speer used to recommend magnum primers on any gun called a magnum.

Somewhere along the line, they woke up and printed a disclaimer:

Use standard primers with heavy loads of 2400.

This because the pressures spike with magnum primers at heavy charge weights.

Elmer said so, and now Speer does also.

I use standards with all heavy loads and magnum primers with lighter loads of 2400, not mouse gas loads but ones backed off say 15% of max.

Three 44s

[winelover]

Been reloading for over 30 years and use nothing but CCI Mag primers with 2400 in 357, 44 Mag & 45 Long Colt. Will continue to do so until my groups tell me otherwise and primers become more available. I hardly use std LP primers so I never bought (stocked up on) them in any quanity. The little I have left, I save for low velocity loads with Unique.

Winelover :lovebooli

[ebg3]

Winchester large pistol primers say for standard and magnum loads on the box. I've always used CCI magnum pistol or rifle primers(small) in my handgun loads. Lately, I've been using standard small pistol and large pistol primers for .357 and .44 mag and have had good results. I think it just depends on what you have the most of and work the load around the primer.