PDA

View Full Version : 243 and deer



Boz330
11-20-2009, 12:11 PM
This past weekend the landowner (Mark) that I deer hunt on took his stepson out hunting and he got his first deer, a very nice 14 point buck. The deer was old and looked like it might have been on the decline.
Anyway the boy was hunting with a 243 with store bought 100gr Nosler Ballistic tip bullets. The entrance hole was the size of a goose egg. The bullet hit a rib bone going in and there was no exit hole. As I was skinning out the deer so they could take the cape and antlers to the taxidermist I found a small bump with blood around it and recovered about an 1/8" of the base of the bullet. The meat around the base wasn't even bloodshot and the remainder of the bullet couldn't have weighed any more than 20gr at the most. There wasn't even any jacket material attached to the little bit of the base.
I have never been much of a fan of the 243 for deer hunting since Mark did the same thing with a 243 about 30 years ago. He was using a 75gr bullet (which is a varmit bullet) and he said that he could see blood all over the side of the deer at the shot. That deer bled so much it looked like somebody pouring blood out of a 5 gallon bucket while walking through the woods. We blood trailed that deer for over a mile and never did find it.
I suggested that if he was going to use that 243 that he get Nosler Partitions for it. I don't even own a 243 so does anybody know if the Partitions work any better. For a youngster I think a 257 cal or 6.5 are a better selection for deer hunting and don't kick any worse than a 243 and bullet selection is a little better.
I think that if this deer had been hit on the shoulder instead of behind it that they could have lost the deer.

Bob

StarMetal
11-20-2009, 12:22 PM
Been studying statistics of calibers taking whitetail deer. How effective they are, where shot, type and weight of bullet, how far the deer went, etc.. Some of the killer cartridges are 30-30, 35 Rem, 300 Sav, 45-70, 270 Win, and the 243 Win. There are others, but in my study a good hit with those mentioned above and that deer is as good as got. The ratio for the 243 is very high. That is say for 10 shot deer, there will definitely be at least 9 harvested one. The main problem with the 243, and any caliber for that matter, is the selection of the wrong bullet. I used a 243 for years and my choice was the 100 grain Hornady roundnose. I'm not real confident in Nosler Ballistic Tips. I know when the very first came out they were lightly constructed and there was much criticism of them blowing up easily on game. Nosler, after a while, made them tougher. I don't see having to go to a partition. I feel a heavy weight from Win, Rem, Hornady, and Speer will do the job. Nothing against the Partition except they are too expensive, but if the hunter can afford...then good.

Joe

yondering
11-20-2009, 02:36 PM
Boz330, I agree with your thoughts. The Ballistic Tip is the wrong bullet for deer, especially in a .243 Win. The Partitions are much better (and not that much more expensive, unless you plan on shooting hundreds of deer each year?). A heavy Barnes X would probably work well too.

I'm sure you'll get a bunch of replies recommending cast boolits at low velocity, but that would not be my choice in a high velocity rifle.

Mk42gunner
11-20-2009, 03:22 PM
I have only killed one deer with a .243 -- a doe about 130 pounds. I used Winchester 100 grain Power Points.

While it worked, I wasn't very impressed. From a solid kneeling position to get over the weeds of the fallow field; somehow I missed high, and spined her. the bullet got to the spine and shattered the near side; but left the far side of the vertebra intact. This wasn't really a failure, the deer died; I just wasn't that impressed with the amount of damage the bullet did.

I agree the 6.5x55 would make a lot better deer rifle, I always thought the recoil of mine felt about like a .243 when I was shooting it.

Robert

S.R.Custom
11-20-2009, 03:47 PM
I've always regarded the .243 as the ideal deer round. The bad rep it gets is because of the vast number of people who don't recognize the difference between a hunting bullet and a varmint bullet. And since the .243 is primarily used as a varmint round, most of the ammo and bullets out there are for varmints...

That said, I've not had much good experience with the Nosler bullets, as the ones I've experimented with --both rifle and pistol-- have been awfully soft, and the accuracy leaves something to be desired. About the best bullet I've seen for deer and the .243 is the Sierra #1560 100 gr SBT Game King. It's accurate, and its terminal behavior is what you'd expect from a medium size game bullet.

lead Foot
11-20-2009, 04:20 PM
I own a .243 but haven't shot a deer ~ I have shot hundreds of pigs even shot out the barrel. Over the years I find the .243 a bit inconsistent even with different types of bullets. I find speed kills so over 3000fps is best. I bought a Stevens 7mm - 08 for cast boolit 200 meter silhouette. I also took it out west for my annual pig shoot and was so impressed with it's performance. It shot well with 120gr hornady, 120gr Seirra and 110grSpeer. The 115gr Speer bullet didn't do well at all. The good points with 7mm - 08 is ~ has less muzzle jump, about the same recoil as the .243 and a lot more foot pounds than a .243 ~ I am using the 120 gr Seirra bullet @ 3100fps, about 2561 foot pounds.
Lead foot;

StarMetal
11-20-2009, 04:43 PM
I own a .243 but haven't shot a deer ~ I have shot hundreds of pigs even shot out the barrel. Over the years I find the .243 a bit inconsistent even with different types of bullets. I find speed kills so over 3000fps is best. I bought a Stevens 7mm - 08 for cast boolit 200 meter silhouette. I also took it out west for my annual pig shoot and was so impressed with it's performance. It shot well with 120gr hornady, 120gr Seirra and 110grSpeer. The 115gr Speer bullet didn't do well at all. The good points with 7mm - 08 is ~ has less muzzle jump, about the same recoil as the .243 and a lot more foot pounds than a .243 ~ I am using the 120 gr Seirra bullet @ 3100fps, about 2561 foot pounds.
Lead foot;

I have a Sako 7mm-08 Mannlicher carbine. Using the 139 Hornady (which I've killed a lot of deer and groundhogs with) I find it to have way more recoil then a 243 and more muzzle jump. Might be my lighter rifle, but I don't think so. You don't get more muzzle energy free. If I will compare anything to a 243 in terms of muzzle jump and recoil, it's the 260 Rem, which I have also.

I would, by the way, rate the 260 Rem a better deer rifle then the 243 Win and 25-06. That's not to say either of those two are lousy. I'd pick the 7mm-08 over all three of those.

Joe

DLCTEX
11-20-2009, 05:40 PM
I've killed may deer with a 243 and have settled on the Hornady Interlock 100 gr. for deer and hog size game. I also have taken a load of deer with .222, .22-250, and .223 up to 225 lbs., but shot placement is required. We've been sorely dissapointed with the Rem. Core Lok in 30 cal., having one blow up again this year, this time on a rib.

2ndAmendmentNut
11-20-2009, 06:05 PM
I would recommend the Barnes X bullets for use on deer. Expensive, but very good performance.

I do almost all of my deer and hog hunting with a 22-250. I shot about a 160lbs Hog in the shoulder with a Barnes 45gr X bullet. The X bullet went clean through both shoulders leaving about a nickel sized exit whole and a very dead hog.

However now most of my medium sized game is still shot with a 22-250, but instead of the X bullet I have switched to the Barnes 36gr Varmint Grenade. Most of my shots are head/neck shots, but these little bullets do fine on chest shots at 22-250 velocities. I have shot several hogs through the shoulders with these 36gr VG, results have been consistently the same. Hog drops dead in tracks, almost no meat damage to the entrance shoulder, after you remove the shoulder there is a soft ball sized hole in the chest cavity, the vitals are mush, no exit wound.

Barnes also makes a 243/6mm VG bullet which I would not hesitate to try on hogs/deer should I ever own a 243 to try them in.

HollandNut
11-20-2009, 06:10 PM
BT has never been a favorite in j's with me ..

The partition is IMO a great bullet , but like anything else you have to match the boolit to the critter ..

Point here is tho' , as someone else said , you dont need a fancy boolit for deer ..

I use casts or Rem 405 grain j's for deer in the Lott ..

woody1
11-21-2009, 12:32 AM
I've shot a lot of deer with the 243 and 100 gr. Hornady interlock. It works. The 100 gr. Nosler Partition will shoot side to side thru an elk if it doesn't hit a big joint. I shot one just behind the shoulder that went thru the off shoulder and lodged just under the hide. Mebe other have different experience but I think the partition is a little hard for deer and IMO the ballistic tip too soft (in 243). If I had to choose, I believe I'd opt for the partition.

As others said, match the bullet to the critter. Regards, Woody

clodhopper
11-21-2009, 01:28 AM
The speer hot core 105 spitzers were my favorite 243 bullet.

No .243s here anymore after the barrel wore out!

Managing to get by with .35 Whelen.

JohnH
11-21-2009, 06:50 AM
I shot two deer last year with my 243 Encore Pro Hunter barrel using the Remington Cor-Loct and a max charge of 3031. One was at 225 yards one at 30. On both the bullet performed exellently. Bullet choice and shot placement are everything. I wouldn't fault the 243 because of the Ballistic Tip.

Lloyd Smale
11-21-2009, 08:41 AM
Ive shot deer with 100 grain sierra and speers and rem corelocks and they all killed just fine.

Bucks Owin
11-21-2009, 11:13 AM
I shot a good sized bull moose back in the 60's when I was a teenager in B.C. with a .243 using the old "bronze colored" 100 gr Nosler partition. (Over 45 grs H-4831) One shot high in the ribcage. Moose went maybe 150 yds and lay down to drown in it's own blood.....FWIW, Dennis

jandbn
11-21-2009, 04:14 PM
As has been noted, bullet choice is critical. I have not witnessed any of my son’s deer kills with his .243 Encore, but he was very disgusted with the first deer he shot with it. I do not know what he was using for ammo other than it was factory. He and a friend tracked it a half mile and lost the blood trail. After that, he decided to hand load. The area he hunted in Minnesota would be mostly dense cover and he wanted a bullet to go all the way through so he wouldn’t lose the blood trail.

At that time, he had been hand loading for his shot gun and decided he might as well do the same for his rifle. I hadn’t been shooting or hand loading for 20 years, but he remembered I had from when he was 5 years old, so he asked me for help. (And, this is how I got gun fever again after 20 years of being away from the sport.) After my son explained what had happened to the deer he lost, I told him he probably needed a bullet that would hold together. I started researching what was available.

I looked around on the Internet and found more than a few bullets that could fit the bill. Way back when I had been reloading, the Partition would have gotten the vote due to my experience with it on deer at close range (less than 100 yards). My son and I discussed what bullets were available that would fit his criteria. The thought was that if he couldn’t get the accuracy from one bullet, there were always other choices to try working up a load with. All said and done, the decision on which bullet to try first was based on penetration, price, flat shooting, and my son didn’t want to be eating lead shrapnel. His first choice was the 85 grain Barnes TSX and it was on sale at one of his favorite local stores. I was aware that the Barnes X had a some what bad reputation 20 years ago but noted that the TSX was of a different design. From what I read of real world field experience, the TXS was just the ticket. It would hold together at 10 yards and still open up at distance if a 300 yard shot was needed.

If I remember correctly, his first deer with the TSX was shot around 15 yards. There was complete penetration through both shoulders. There wasn’t any damage to the on-side shoulder other than a small hole through it. The bullet hit the off side shoulder and the exit hole was silver dollar sized. The internals were mush. The deer expired four steps from where it was shot. Talk about one happy kid! He was really nervous about wounding and losing another one with the .243.

His second deer was spooked by another hunter and ran right to him. He thought the deer was going to run him over. At about 10 yards, the deer didn’t see him, but veered away following a trail. He shot it at 4 yards. Complete penetration again. The bullet went through the on side shoulder and out the ribs of the off-side. Vitals were mush. Hardly any damage to the shoulder and the exit was fist size. With the momentum the deer had, it plowed a furrow for a couple steps and was dead before it hit the ground.

The third deer was about 120 yards quartering away. Complete penetration and the boiler room was mush. I don’t recall the exit hole size. The deer ran 10 yards and expired. My son was sold on the TSX performance (and so am I).

He also hunted deer in North Dakota with friends and decided he needed another rifle for longer distance shots. Last winter he purchased a Tikka .25-06. Due to his success with the TSX in the .243, he loaded up 100 grain TSX’s in his 06. This fall he christened the 06 with his first bear. The bear was 20 yards quartered away in a hole from the roots of a fallen tree. Its head was down in the hole on the bait pile when he shot. He is not sure how because the bear came charging into the bait pile (bear fever instead of buck fever!), but the bullet went through the on side shoulder, out the chest, in to and out of the back of the jaw, and through the off side front leg. The bear dropped on the spot.

My son’s new girl friend bought a Savage .243 this past summer. I don’t really think she bought it because she wanted to hunt, but more to “please” my son so they had something else in common to keep their relationship kindled. Anywho, the .243 shot less than 1” groups with factory rounds. My son still had some .243 TSX hand loads left over and he and his girlfriend decide to use them for hunting rather than the factory rounds.

On opening weekend in MN for deer, my son and his girlfriend were together in a blind and ranged a doe at around 300 yards. His girlfriend said she didn’t want to try shooting that far as she had never done so before. He really wanted her to get her first deer. My son tried to encourage her by explaining the hold over needed and that there wasn’t a wind to contend with, but she chose not to shoot. He waited until legal light was almost gone to see if she would change her mind but she didn’t. So my son used his .25-06 and a TSX to drop it at a ranged 287 yards. Sorry I don’t remember the forensic details other than the bullet was a pass through.

And now for the best part for the right bullet in a .243 that took place last Saturday during the end of the season. My son and his girl friend had ranged some does over 300 yards. After my son’s girlfriend had watched my son shoot the doe the prior weekend, she had the courage to take aim at a broadside doe ranged at 325 yards. The 85 grain .243 TSX passed through. On side shoulder entrance was nickel size. The exit on the off side shoulder was quarter size and according to my son, the internals were mush. The doe traversed a half circle for about 10 yards and tipped over.

Needless to say, bullet choice is very important consideration when it comes to the lighter calibers like the .243. As others have mentioned, the .243 is capable. It is a matter of placement and choosing your bullet wisely!

MT Gianni
11-21-2009, 04:36 PM
5 antelope and 7+ deer with the 243. All were killed with the 100 gr Hornaday spitzer. I used H4831 and see no need to drop in bullet weight. I plink, shoot paper and varmits with cast in this gun also.

LAH
11-21-2009, 04:58 PM
We've been sorely dissapointed with the Rem. Core Lok in 30 cal., having one blow up again this year, this time on a rib.

What speed was the bullet moving please? Thanks & God Bless.

1Shirt
11-21-2009, 06:38 PM
JANDBN tells a great story, and proves a great point that most of us know which is ya gotta shoot the right blt, and hit in the right place. Have only killed one deer with a 243, and that was with a 105 Speer like Clodhopper. About 150 yds, big doe, dropped in its tracks. Now shoot deer mainly with 7x57, but would not hesitate to take my 243, but I would now probably go with the Barnes or one of the other premium solid blts.
1Shirt!:coffee:

atr
11-21-2009, 07:08 PM
dump the .243 and find a .257 Roberts or a 7x57......

Coastie
11-21-2009, 07:18 PM
I have taken a number of Blacktail deer over the years with a 243 - most with a 100 grain Remington Core-Lokt soft point. All were less then 150 yards and only one required a second shot. A neighbor took a cougar in back of my place with a 100 grain Nosler Partition - one shot. I now use cast or a Nosler Partition (various calibers) for most of my hunting (deer, elk ...) little meat loss and usually one shot when I put the bullet where it should go. I know that there are other good bullets, but these have worked well for me.

Ricochet
11-21-2009, 07:52 PM
dump the .243 and find a .257 Roberts or a 7x57......
Or a .300 Weatherby.

Tazman1602
11-21-2009, 08:13 PM
This past weekend the landowner (Mark) that I deer hunt on took his stepson out hunting and he got his first deer, a very nice 14 point buck. The deer was old and looked like it might have been on the decline.
Anyway the boy was hunting with a 243 with store bought 100gr Nosler Ballistic tip bullets. The entrance hole was the size of a goose egg. The bullet hit a rib bone going in and there was no exit hole. As I was skinning out the deer so they could take the cape and antlers to the taxidermist I found a small bump with blood around it and recovered about an 1/8" of the base of the bullet. The meat around the base wasn't even bloodshot and the remainder of the bullet couldn't have weighed any more than 20gr at the most. There wasn't even any jacket material attached to the little bit of the base.
I have never been much of a fan of the 243 for deer hunting since Mark did the same thing with a 243 about 30 years ago. He was using a 75gr bullet (which is a varmit bullet) and he said that he could see blood all over the side of the deer at the shot. That deer bled so much it looked like somebody pouring blood out of a 5 gallon bucket while walking through the woods. We blood trailed that deer for over a mile and never did find it.
I suggested that if he was going to use that 243 that he get Nosler Partitions for it. I don't even own a 243 so does anybody know if the Partitions work any better. For a youngster I think a 257 cal or 6.5 are a better selection for deer hunting and don't kick any worse than a 243 and bullet selection is a little better.
I think that if this deer had been hit on the shoulder instead of behind it that they could have lost the deer.

Bob

This is a very, very common misconception Bob. A .243 will kill any deer that walks IF it's loaded properly. Sounds like that bullet blew up on the surface and did not penetrate properly.

For the last 20 years my wife and I both have hunted white tail in Northern Michigan and have never, ever lost a deer because of caliber --- but you HAVE to have the proper load and bullet.

I use exclusively Barnes 95 grain X-Bullets for .243 and white tail. Every trophy we have hanging on our walls (3-8points and one 9-point) were taken with those rifles shooting Barnes bullets. ALL bullets either left massive wound cavities lodging just under the skin of the deer on the other side or exited with a very large hole. Not one deer ran more than 50 yards, and never was more than one shot required to put them down.

I push these bullets just under 3000 fps out of both her Ruger ML ultralight and my M77 VT heavy barrel. 4350 is my powder of choice.

I have recovered (we've gotten a LOT of deer over the years, very few have been wall hangers....) 5 of these Barnes X-Bullets from deer that we have killed over the years. They are 95 grain bullets going in and after going almost all the way through the deer they weighed, 91, 92,90, 89, 91 respectively according to my notes.

Don't know how the Nosler partitions would work but you are on the right track I think, I have no practical experience killing game with them but I can tell you this -- I quit using Nosler Ballistic tips on deer as when they first came out I used to hunt sometimes with a 30-06 which, in my opinion is WAY to big for deer unless you are shooting extreme ranges or handloading them down to acceptable velocities.........and I had the same dog gone experience with them, basically blowing up on the side of the ribcage and not penetrating completely. At the time I thought it was due to the fact I was a new reloader -- and that may be the case, but I never used them since.

You see now I've got a dillema -- Barnes has quit making the 95 grain X-bullet so what I've got left is IT. Because of an ogive redesign the only weight close they offer is 85 grain and even this old .243 lover doesn't get a fuzzy feeling on that light a bullet. I'm looking at some of Hornady's offerings in 95 grain now but am wishing I had bought 500 of the old X-bullets when I had the chance.

...................and I am an avid reader and fan of Elmer Keith God rest his soul "Use enough gun!"

Art

Leadforbrains
11-21-2009, 08:34 PM
I and my son have killed quite a few deer using a 6mm remington and the 95 gr Nosler Ballistic tip. I have had no negative experience and I will continue use it.

Houndog
11-21-2009, 10:02 PM
I used to hunt with a 6mm Remington (a 423's balistic twin) and used two different bullets, a 90 gr spitzer flat base and a 100 spitzer flatbase. I used the 90gr for South Carolina "beanfield" hunting where the ranges could easily be 300 yards or more and the average deer weighs less than 100 pounds. The 100gr spitzer everywhere else. I never had one get away. I WILL say when you are hunting with a 6mm/243 or one of the hotrod 22's shot placement gets critical in a hurry! My recomendation for general use is a conventional constructed flat based spitzer (NO BALISTIC TIP OR PARTITION) of 100gr or more They WILL get er done quite well for Deer, Black Bears and Hogs. The money saved by not using one of the super duper wonder bullets can be used for something else. They're not needed!

Leadforbrains
11-21-2009, 10:19 PM
This deer was shot opening day in Orangeburg county S.C. It was shot using a 6mm remington with a 95 grain ballistic tip. I broke one shoulder and took out both lungs. The deer went 10 yards. I weighed 220 lbs when that picture was taken and that buck was larger and heavier than I was.
I have a friend that hunts in western Missouri and he has taken some very large bucks with this same caliber and bullet. I will agree that shot placement is critical, but that much is true with any caliber. The 6mm and the 243 are probably not the best all around cartridges for deer hunting, but they will work if the limitations are understood.

jnovotny
11-21-2009, 11:04 PM
Get rid of the 243 and get a 30-30. Never look back ,best deer cartidge in the world period.

DeepSouth
11-22-2009, 12:32 AM
Groundhog got it right shot placement is critical when using a 243 or anyother gun for that matter.I got my rem 788 243 when I was 13 I'm now 39.This was my only rifle for deer during that time.I've recently acquired more rifles.My dad,brother, 9yrold son,cousin and uncle all use the 243. I think the 243 is ideal for deer.I've always shot 95 to 100gr federals,remingtons and winchester soft points or core-locts never had any problems and always recovered the deer but have never recovered a bullet.Always take the behind the shoulder shot if I can't get that shot I don't shoot.In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the the 243 at all other than its not a super gee whiz bang shoot through any thing from end to end magnum.

Bret4207
11-22-2009, 08:38 AM
MY son has taken 4 deer and a small black bear with the 250 Savage and 100 Nosler Pasrtition. All we ever find of the bullet is the base half, usually near bloodshot meat. None of the shots were over 75 yards and none required tracking. One deer was near 200 lbs live weight, the rest in the 140 class.

In cartridges under 6.5x55/257 Roberts class I think it's best to go for a premium bullets.

StarMetal
11-22-2009, 11:42 AM
The 243 Win became a big success because....it was accurate, little recoil, and dual purpose...good for both varmints and deer. You all know the story of Remington's 244. Had the wrong twist for the heavier bullets needed for deer. They guessed wrong that the 243 Win would only be a varmint cartridge. Bottom line is you don't need no stinking high dollar premium bullet because for all these years the 243 has been bringing home the venison...and it's been a lot of years.

Joe

35 Whelen
11-22-2009, 12:08 PM
My Dad bought for me a 6mm Rem. when I was about 12 years old. In the ensuing 34 years I, my wife and daughter have used that rifle for umpteen deer. When I was a teen I loaded 100 gr. Sierra boat tails and they worked fine. But the somewhere along the way I began using 100 gr. Hornady flatbase bullets. I run them 3000 fps and they've only failed mt once.
A couple of years ago I was hunting on the back of my place. I normally use a 308, but the 6mm was leaning by the back door so I grabbed it. I got a shot at a really nice 11 point that I'd been seeing on my game cameras. He was quartering away at about 150 yds. There was a gusty west wind blowing and in my haste to shoot befor he jumped the fence, I forgot to allow for it. Consequently I hit him too far back. In spite of hours of searching from me, the wife and dogs, I never found him. Probably the 308 with a similarly constructed bullet would have faired no better.
Personally, I think the 243 and 6mm are fine deer cartridges...and I say that from experience. But to use them with varmint bullets is asking for trouble. I stay away from the plastic tipped cup and core bullets also.
35W

xlrsgsw
11-22-2009, 12:12 PM
I have used my 243 for 35 years and i have found it verry effective on deer, have been reloading this round with a sierre spitzer 100 gr. rn. h380 powder 35gr. rem.91/2 primer. I paper shoot at 100 yards and get great results. The effect on deer has been outstanding. Have never lost a deer. I can also say the same for the 6mm round as i reload for this gun also.


George.

stephen perry
11-22-2009, 12:44 PM
No need for 3000 fps for a deer round. Load your own 2500 fps is fine with a 80-100 grn bullet. Since this is Cast Forum try a 245496 bullet, no lino. Deer don't take much killin. Though I like teachin kids to shoot I think any kid under 10 ought be practicin on rabbits.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :holysheep

dk17hmr
11-22-2009, 01:19 PM
Not exactly ideal, but this kid is a good shot and has NEF Super Light in 243 which is very light. I loaded him some 70gr Nosler Ballistic tips at 3200FPS+, I can shoot it and see the bullet holes appear in the paper, he has killed 3 deer with this load and the last one was this very nice 10 point...of course he is a neck shooter
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/MMS95Resized95Pix.jpg

Im not a big fan of the 243 Winchester for deer but it is effective, I would opt for a 25 caliber + personally for a kid. Of course I know of several Michigan Whitetail that have been killed with a 60gr Nosler Partition out of a 223, comes down to bullet placement.