Newbie needs to know

[odinohi]

I have a 311008 and a 311316 that I've been trying to cast boolits with. The alloy I'm using is 3lb lino, 6lb ww, 1 lb 50/50 solder. I've casted around 50 boolits so the molds should be up to temp, but I'm still getting lots of little tiny voids and rounded drive bands. The boolits are sticking in the molds pretty good. On the 311008 the sprues are even sticking to the point where smacking with my mallet wont even release them. I'v smoked both molds with my lighter and they are still sticking.
Now I have a question about "Kroil". What is it, what does it do, how do I use it, what type should I buy? I need some help man! Tom

[Edubya]

With your alloy mixture there should be no problem.
Have you preheated your mould?
How many cast have you made?
Yes, the Kroil will help. You can order it directly from Kanu Labs and even get a 13oz sampler for free.
EW

[Gunslinger]

50/50 WW/lino is a waste of lino in my opinion. I can't imagine anything that would constitute such a hard alloy.

What are you using it for? Yes is saw the mold numbers but find mold numbers terribly confusing :-x

[odinohi]

Yes, I preheated the molds on the warming plate of my Mag 20 furnace.
I cast around 50 on each mold.
The numbers are Lyman numbers, molds are for my 32/20.
Not 50/50 WW/Lino, 3 lb lino, 6 lb ww, 1lb 50/50 solder, this is supposed to be a Lyman#2 clone

[Mk42gunner]

How clean are your molds? Did you get all of the oil out of them before starting to cast?

On the sprues sticking to the sprueplate; I have used soapstone on my sprueplates, it keeps the sprue from sticking.

Robert

[Wayne Smith]

Since one is a 31108 I assume these are used molds? Have you examined them closely - with a magnifying glass - for burrs that may be causing the problem? How have they been stored? Oil gets in the pores of the iron and needs to be aggressively cleaned out, carb cleaner and a tooth brush at the least.

How hot is your metal? Your mold is up to temp, but I hear that you may be still cooler than the molds want. My Lyman molds want between 750 and 800 degrees. How clean is your melt? Little inclusions in my boolits are usually specks of iron oxide (rust) from my cast iron pot.

Finally, go to the bottom of the page and click on the Bullshop and get some sprue plate lube. It will solve the melt sticking on the sprue plate problem.

In short, find the cause of the problem before adding another variable (Kroil).

You are using a much harder mix than is necessary for the 32-20. I make mine out of either 50/50 (ww/pb) or straight ww, depending on what's in my pot.

[Bret4207]

I've used straight WW with a little tin added in the 32-20 and 32 Mag up to 17-1800 fps. No need to #2 alloy with the 311316 that I can see. Clean the mould of all soot and oils, get the pot up to at least 700-725 and start casting as fast as you can. You mould is too cool. Once the mould breaks in you;ll be able to run the pot a little cooler. You regulate mould temp by casting speed. Evey second the mould is empty it's cooling. DOn;t smoke a mould or use any other type of mould relaease unless you have to, and that's rare IMO.

[Oldtimer]

I agree with Bret. I'd turn your pot up a little hotter than what you have been, and speed up just a little. You will start to see a little frosty look on the boolits. You know it is a little too hot if the sprue plate opens easy, or you see a little lead smear on top of your mold. Back off the temp a little, and slow down so the lead will harden. Won't take long, you'll find the right combination. Bob

[mroliver77]

Tom,
I agree, more heat. I see you had asked for some hands on help a couple months back. I am about an hour up route 6 west from you. I can slide over and give you a hand sometime if you like. I use to pick up oak furniture from a fellow peddling it in Clyde.
Jay

[TAWILDCATT]

I have the 31108 and it casts perfecly its older than any one here its a win mold.
change that mix.go straight WW even pure lead.that was used in the 73 win and 92. only need hard on rifle over 2000 and mag pistols.It may be expanding and locking in I had that with a lee 12ga.it srunk onto the base pin.by expanding.

[Edubya]

Tom, Jump on the offer that Mroliver77 has made. He's been at this casting for a while and has made a most generous offer.
EW

[XWrench3]

try scrubbing the bullet hole with acetone saturated q-tips at least twice. usually in my experience with lee molds, it is either not hot enough, or a TINY bit of something in the mold itself.

[odinohi]

Well I cleaned the molds in hot soapy water then dried in the oven. Cleaned again with carb cleaner and then soaked with rubbing alcohol and blew out with my air compressor. Cranked up the heat all the way, took temp of 800 degrees.
The 311316 turned out decent looking bullets after the mold got up to temp. The bullets had tiny little fins but otherwise formed well. The 311008 still needs cleaned some more I believe. Now my next question will be about sizing and lubing these little buggers. Thanks guys, Tom

[MtGun44]

I think that carb cleaner leaves residue. Brake cleaner does not.
I start with a Lee trying brake cleaner only, and see if it casts OK or shows
problems with burrs. If it has burrs or shows indications of contamination
(wrinkled and not properly filled out boolits, even when hot enough) I will
scrub the cavities well with Comet and a toothbrush. This will definitely
clean them well and usually gets the burrs, too. Sometimes a small brass
brush in the dremel very lightly over the edges of the cavities is necessary
to get serious machining burrs from Lee molds.

Make sure you get and use Bull Plate Lube (Bull shop at bottom of page) for
your Lee molds - bottom of sprue plate, top of mold and alignment pins and
V shapes at the end of 1 and 2 cavity molds and alignment pins on 6 cav.
Keep Bull Plate out of cavities. Avoid bullet lube as a mold lube, it burns on
very difficult to remove gunk that can keep the molds from closing properly.

Bill

[MK111]

I believe your fins are way too much tin in your alloy. Drop the 50-50 addition. I never seen a use of over 1 to 2% maximum tin.

[knappy]

I agree with oldtimer more heat on molds shold fix troubles

[cbrick]

The alloy I'm using is 3lb lino, 6lb ww, 1 lb 50/50 solder. Tom

Why are you adding the solder after adding that much lino? Seems kind of a waste, lino has 4% Sn already.

I would suggest (as has already been suggested in this thread) to simply add 1-2% Sn to the CWW and save the lino for the day when it's really needed.

Rick

[geargnasher]

Your alloy is WAY over tinned. Cut with at least 50% WW. Also, lower your pot temp to 675* and preheat the moulds until it takes six full seconds before you can cut the sprue without smearing lead on the top of the mould blocks. Cast at a pace of four pours a minute (one complete cycle every 15 seconds!) for a while, go faster or slower depending on how long it takes the sprue to set. Keep trying for about five second sprue time. If you do this and refrain from pressure casting your fins will go away but the boolit contours will still be crisp. There may be light frosting, that's good IMO. Take two asprin, and call me in the morning. :razz:

Gear

[44man]

I agree with the fellas, that is a waste of expensive alloys.
I don't know if I would add that much lino and tin to 20# of WW's.
Everyone knows I like hard, or rather tough boolits but I get there by water dropping straight WW's for 99% of my shooting. I don't even add tin, stuff casts just fine as is.
Now just for shooting groups in revolvers I use 20# of WW's, 6.4 oz of tin and 9.6 oz of antimony and water drop the boolits.
Now I came by a big ingot of video metal and need to make small ingots yet. I need to figure out how much of it to add to WW's to duplicate my harder alloy and if anyone can help, I would appreciate it.
I am thinking maybe a pound to 20# of WW's and maybe a few ounces of tin.
I will tell you I suck at math and detest figuring percentages. :groner:

[cbrick]

Wouldn't mind taking a stab at helping 44man but a couple of pieces of info are missing.

What is video metal? What percentages are you trying to reach?

Rick

[44man]

Wouldn't mind taking a stab at helping 44man but a couple of pieces of info are missing.

What is video metal? What percentages are you trying to reach?

Rick
From what I understand it is a little harder then lino and was used for spacers between type. I just looked it up. It is 6% tin, 14% antimony and 80% lead. There is no arsenic so I have to depend on the WW's for that.
Looks like I might not have to add any tin.
I have not tried to find the percentages for the alloy I make. Maybe you can from my last post.

[cbrick]

Your current revolver alloy converted to Grains =

20 pounds of CWW = 140000 gr.
Assuming CWW has 2% Sb already and you added 9.6 ounces (4200 gr.) your Sb % is now 4%. 144200 grains of Pb/Sb.

Assuming CWW has 0.5% Sn = 700 gr. of the 140000 gr.
Your 6.4 ounces of added Sn converted to grains = 2800 gr. + the 700 gr. = 2.4% Sn of the combined Pb/Sb weight of 144200 gr.

Your current revolver alloy:
93.6% Pb
4% Sb
2.4% Sn

Ok, that's what you have been using.

If you add 1 pound of your video metal (7000 gr) to 20 pounds of CWW (240000 gr) you end up with -

21 pounds of alloy or 147000 gr. (20 pounds CWW + 1 pound video)
You already have 4200 gr. of Sb in the 20 pounds of CWW and you are adding 980 gr. Sb (14% of 1 pound) giving you 5100 gr. of Sb which is 3.45% of the 21 pounds.

Sb = 3.45%

6% Sn of one pound of video = 420 gr. Sn.
+ 0.5% Sn in the 20 pounds of CWW or 735 gr. for a total of 1155 gr. of Sn. 1155 gr. Sn is 0.8% Sn of 21 pounds.

Sn = 0.8%

The remainder is Pb or 95.75% Pb.

Your new alloy should be:
Pb = 95.75%
Sb = 3.45%
Sn = 0.8%

If you would like to keep your Sn at your current percentage of 2.4%, simply add an additioanl 1.5% Sn of the total 147000 gr. which is 2205 gr. of Sn or if you prefer 5 ounces. By simply adding the Sn to the recipe you'll skew the Pb/Sb precentages but only very slightly, you'll still be very close. So in conclusion -

20 pounds of CWW
1 pound of video alloy
5 ounces of Sn

And 44man should be very close to his original revolver alloy. Keep in mind that all of these percentages come from the info you provided. Also, the percentages used for CWW are assumptions, they are assumptions because WW alloy is scrap alloy. There is no magic formula for making WW and percentages of the metals in the alloy vary not only from mfg to mfg but also from with the same mfg as availability of and prices of raw materials change. The larger your blended lot of WW the smaller the variation in your pot to pot alloy. Using these assumptions of alloy percentages your alloy should come out easily close enough for bullet alloy and any differences (variations in WW) should be insignificant. That's why so many people from all over the country get similar results using WW. If you have say 10 different lots of WW ingots from 10 different sources blend them all together for one uniform lot. Don't add tin or anything else until your ready to cast, keep it as CWW.

Bear in mind that these numbers come from a guy that flunked high school math. Anyone welcome to check my math.

EDIT to add: I don't normally include the arsenic percentage when doing this because 0.25% to 0.5% is such a small percentage of numbers like 147,000 grains that it doesn't change anything enough to be relevant and you know it's there, right?

You could create the above alloy recipe by converting to ounces rather than grains, however, there are 16 ounces to a pound and 7000 Gr to a pound, any rounding off or minor errors using ounces would create fairly large variations in pot to pot alloy percentages (consistency). A 10% error (or rounding off) with grains is a 70 Gr variation for the entire pot of alloy. A 10% error using ounces is 1.6 ounces or 700 Gr. By converting to grains and rounding off to hundreds of an ounce such variations are statistically irrelevant.

Here are the conversion factors for grains to ounces and ounces to grains.
Ounces x 437.5 = Grains
Grains x .00229 = Ounces

Hope this helps,

Rick