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View Full Version : IPSC load with cast boolit for S&W 625?



Whistler
11-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Hi!
I've recently acquired a very nice 625-8 and started casting boolits for it.

I'm using the Lee 230gr Round Nose with Tumble Lube and then size it to .452 with a Lee Lube & Size. I lube them according to the instructions with Lee Liquid Alox.

Do you guys have any advice on suitable loads for this revolver?

After casting, lubing, sizing and relubing I weighed the boolits and they were 237.5-240.5gr using wheel weights.

If I calculate the IPSC factor with that load I need a muzzle velocity of 750fps with the 237gr boolit to reach Major factor (with a bit of a margin).

I'm using Speer .45ACP small pistol primer brass with Federal 100 primers.

The powders available here in Sweden are mostly Vihtavouri, so I'd prefer load data with N320, N330 or N340 since I already have those.

Also, how deep should I seat this boolit?
I made a 100 test cartridges with the boolit seated so that the crimp (Redding Taper Crimp) was in the middle of the first cannelure, but I think I crimped too hard, because the cartridge won't chamber in my cylinder, I can't get it all the way in without forcing it on four of the six chambers. On two of them they just slide in.

Should I worry that my cylinder chambers seem to be of different diameter?

A lot of questions, I know, but I'd appreciate any answers! Thanks beforehand! :)

richbug
11-19-2009, 10:15 AM
I'd start with 4.1-4.3 grains of N320 and work up or down as needed.

The crimp is likely what is preventing easy chambering, no need for a serious crimp, just enough to remove the flare, neck tension should be more than adequate to keep the bullets in place.

I load that bullet with all the "shoulder" inside the case.

If you continue to have trouble chambering get a Lee "factory crimp die".

How many rounds through your revolver?

Dale53
11-19-2009, 11:15 AM
The taper crimp should be adjusted until the outside diameter of the mouth of the case is .470". That is enough and NOT too much. It will shoot well and will NOT allow the bullet to move (that is assuming the bullet is .451"-.452" - I size my bullets at .452").

I have no experience with Vihtavouri powders so cannot help you there.

However, I DO have MUCH experience with 1911 .45 ACP's and have two 625's in .45 ACP (a 5" 625-6 and a 4" JM Special 625-8. These are both delightful revolvers.

I also use the Lee Factory Crimp Die - it guarantees that the ammo will chamber properly after loading.

Good luck!
Dale53

imashooter2
11-19-2009, 02:25 PM
4.2 grains of Bullseye under the Lee 452-228-1R is what I use in mine.

<=====================

IPSC with a round gun is a real hoot! I love it!

ETA: when I first got my revolver, I had problems using my old .45 ACP brass that had been run countless times through autos. Seems the sizer wasn't getting all the way to the case head which had slightly expanded over the years. I chose to get 1,000 once fired cases and keep those segregated for use in the revolver only, but running cases through a Lee Factory Crimp Die worked also.

looseprojectile
11-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Whistler; Welcome!
If you don't have .45 Auto Rim cases get fifty or so and try them. I do not like to fuss with the clips, and you have dedicated ammo. Full moon clips do load faster though. I also like heavier boolits in the revolver. 260 grain SWC boolits shoot really well in the Smith. Heck, I like heavier boolits in the .45 auto too. The .45 Colt RNFP boolit is one of my favorites. Load it just like for the automatic. Reduce the powder charge about half a grain or so to allow for the reduced powder space and heavier boolit.
You should have no trouble arriving at a load for your gun as the .45 is a real easy gun to load for. I use very little crimp and depend on case tension a lot.
I found that the .45 Colt sizing die is a little larger than the .45 auto and I don't get the hourglass looking finished rounds.

Life is good

35remington
11-19-2009, 07:54 PM
Load the 230-2R (the name for your tumble lube bullet) to around 1.260-1.265" as that duplicates standard ball length, which the 230-2R is intended to match in profile.

In my 625, I prefer a hard bullet and a small amount of a good lube to keep leading down and reduce skidding when the bullet makes the long jump from cylinder to forcing cone. Soft, heavy bullets often skid and lead badly due to the particular demands this revolver places upon its bullets with the long jump.

I've found leading is most minimized when the tumble lube grooves are filled with a soft lubricant, rather than LLA. I size mine in a lubrisizer. Experiment with filling the number of grooves (if you have a lubrisizer) to determine whether filling them all is needed. Sometimes (more often with the bigger lube groove bullets) too much of a good lube, while it eliminates leading, causes poorer accuracy.

LLA can have good accuracy, but at the expense of somewhat more leading. At least in what I'm shooting through the 625.

Whistler
11-20-2009, 05:12 AM
Thank you for all your answers! :)
While thankful for the information you guys have given me, you must understand that data related to other bullets and powders than the ones I specified aren't really relevant to me, since I listed what I have available.

Using .45AR is not really an option, since reloads are part of the timed sequence in IPSC. I have to use regular .45ACP with full moon clips. :)

Dale53: Thank you for the crimping tips, I will be sure to test crimping to .470"! :)

35remington: Many thanks for the specified C.O.L! I have been looking with light and lantern for C.O.L numbers related to 230-2R. Would you deem the wheel weight alloy to be too soft?

35remington
11-20-2009, 07:40 PM
With a lot of bullets of heavier weight, unhardened wheelweights show more skidding than hard bullets do. To keep leading down with the heavies I use a good lube and a hard bullet in the 625. The hardness grips, the good lube manages leading.

Wheelweights work fine in the lighter 185 SWC's, as that weight bullet has less momentum to ride over the riflling initially before it "grips" the bullet like heavier bullets do. Recovered 185's made from wheelweights show only slight widening of the rifling marks at the front of the bullet, give no appreciable leading and shoot well.

Given the 230-2R doesn't have a wide front band like some heavier bullets do, I've always prefered it to be harder to help grip the rifling with less skidding. The warmer the load, the more the bullet needs hardness to avoid the skidding that will take place. Quenched wheelweights will be plenty hard.

To prove it to yourself, shoot some wheelweights air cooled, then hardened ones, recover the bullets and note the difference in skidding.

If the bullets are hard, a modest amount of a good lubricant holds leading down. You might try lubricating only the bottom two grooves and compare accuracy with the bullet containing lube in all the grooves. This with a good lube like 50/50 or one of Lar's concoctions. Yes, I do lubricate TL bullets in a lubrisizer, and it works out fine.

If using them with LLA, compare a modest coating to a heavier one for leading control and accuracy with the hardened bullet.

Whistler
11-22-2009, 01:01 PM
I always water drop my bullets, so it seems I'm on the right way here. :) Thanks!

I'm having some trouble knowing what is a light coat compared to a heavy. The manual just say to pour some LLA over the bullets in an old ice cream container and then swirl them. I've done that, but are there any signs I should look for that tells me when it is enough?

imashooter2
11-22-2009, 05:06 PM
When you pour them out to dry, there shouldn't be enough on them to run down onto the wax paper/plastic sheet.

Whistler
11-23-2009, 05:38 AM
Thanks, imashooter2! :)
Should I check for this immidiately after applying or is it that I shouldn't be able to see any LLA on the sheet after drying? So far I've used 2/3 of a bottle on 1200 boolits, and I thought I used a lot, but there's nothing near running onto the paper.

I redid my loads with new crimp yesterday and brought the revolver's cylinder (left the frame in the gun locker) so that I could check the chambering right away at the bench. I found out that my original crimps that sometimes wouldn't fit in the cylinder had a crimp mouth diameter of .472"-.473". I tightened the crimp (Redding Taper Crimp) so that I came down to .470" but still had problems with some nickle cases, so I gave the crimp a quarter of a turn more and then every cartridge went in easy.

Very thankful for the help so far, I'll let you know about leading when I've been able to shoot them. :)

imashooter2
11-23-2009, 09:17 AM
Look for heavy rings of LLA on the boolits around the contact area after drying. There shouldn't be any. If you get any LLA dripping off onto the drying sheet that is WAY too much.

2/3 of a bottle on 1200 boolits is definitely too much. I have literally lubed boolits by melting old deposits off my swirling tub with a couple teaspoons of mineral spirits. Just a hint of color is all you need.

DevilDog83
11-25-2009, 06:33 PM
I use the same Lee mold and lube as you. I get Major no problem with 4.0 grs of Clays,,,, I also use 3.5 grs Bullseye for my ICORE loads (also makes USPSA minor at 129.5 Power Factor in my 4" 625)

Whistler
12-01-2009, 05:56 AM
imashooter2: No rings after drying, so I guess I'm doing it right. Thanks! :)

John Z Sr : As I wrote in my earlier posts, I don't have access to those powders, so your load data doesn't tell me anything. :(