.41 "ss"

[DevilDog83]

New to this forum and looking for advice. Starting a new project with a S&W 57, cutting down some 41 mag brass to special lenght, or a little shorter. My goal is to use the gun in ICORE retro division and only load to make minor. I think I'll be using 195 gr lead semi wad cutters, 'till I find a round nose mold. The shorter cases should make my reloads a little faster. Anyone try this before? "SS" for Short Special

[Rocky Raab]

The regular 41 Special is a fabulous round that's been around for years now. I wrote about it and had a revolver made for it. Read here: http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/41%20Special.htm

I have no idea if it would help with reload speed, though.

And welcome to the board!

[HeavyMetal]

Depending on case length I think your making the "41 Special".

Very much like the 44 special this should have been the fore runner of the magnum round but never made it into existance.

It's been a "wildcat" used on and off over the last 15 yrs or so by 41 guys.

The only advantage to the shorter case "might" be the fact that if you can find the right speed loader and boolit combo it might be held a bit firmer making alignment in the cylinder easier.

However I will tell you from past experience that "Gadgets", while cool, are not a substitute for practice! Make up a batch of dummy rounds, enough to fill all your loaders, and run them through the loading sequeance twice a night for the next month.

Don't try for speed try for smooth! Once you can do this very smoothly you'll be surprised how fast you are at a match!

[Marlin Hunter]

I believe the 38 and 44 Specials are .100 shorter than their respective magnums.

Sounds like an interesting round.

Thanks for posting the article Rocky Raab

[jameslovesjammie]

Sounds like a good idea. Some guys shooting .38 specials in ICORE are using .38 Short Colt brass and using 9mm load data. The short colt and 9mm are virtually identical in case capacity and any gun built on a .357 action will handle the pressure no problem.

The .41 special could be trimmed down to .40 S&W length and with similar weight bullets use the .40 data as a starting point. You'll need to get a chrono to know where you're at though. The little bit wider .41 case should have slightly more case capacity, which would result in slightly less velocity with the same bullet weight and powder charge.

The only issue I had with the really short brass was that it is too short to work in a speedloader. You really need moonclips when going super-short.

[Rocky Raab]

Don't overlook the die problem. I had to have some of my 41 Mag seater die ground off so I could crimp. You'd have to perform major surgery to the seater with brass even shorter than Special length of 1.16" in order to remove the seating bell and crimp.

[AZ-Stew]

I have a Taurus Titanium Tracker in .41 with a cylinder too short to load the Lyman 410459 or the Saeco equivalent to the proper depth in standard .41 Magnum brass. The boolit noses protrude from the cylinder face by .020 - .030. I took 100 cases and trimmed them back so the boolits would fit the cylinder. I didn't measure the trim length, but they're short enough that the meplats are well below the cylinder face. I also don't shoot full-power loads from this gun. If I feel the need to absorb recoil, I get out my .45-70 Contender. Since the loads are moderate, the reduction in case volume is not an issue. I use the same midrange loads I use with my M-57 Smith and get about the same velocity.

I haven't had any die problems with the shorter brass (Lyman carbide die set in a Dillon RL-550), so I have no input here.

Unless you have a gun with a short cylinder, I don't see much need for the shorter cases. The M-57 doesn't need them. I think the round nose boolits will be more of an advantage than the shorter cases during reloads.

Regards,

Stew

[DevilDog83]

Thanks to all who have replied so far, this is a great forum and I'm glad I joined. Anyone that might get into the Raleigh, NC area, we have a growing # of revo shooters and all are more than welcome to join us!!

[orrsteiner]

If you can find a copy of the 17th edition of Handloader's Digest (1997), there is an article by David Ward on the 41 Special. It covers the subject pretty well with loading info and suggested loads. One advantage for the Special that I see is decreasing the volume of the case so the lighter charges of powder fill the case more completely, reducing any problems with powder position which can affect accuracy. Have fun with your project.

[DevilDog83]

I have a Taurus Titanium Tracker in .41 with a cylinder too short to load the Lyman 410459 or the Saeco equivalent to the proper depth in standard .41 Magnum brass. The boolit noses protrude from the cylinder face by .020 - .030. I took 100 cases and trimmed them back so the boolits would fit the cylinder. I didn't measure the trim length, but they're short enough that the meplats are well below the cylinder face. I also don't shoot full-power loads from this gun. If I feel the need to absorb recoil, I get out my .45-70 Contender. Since the loads are moderate, the reduction in case volume is not an issue. I use the same midrange loads I use with my M-57 Smith and get about the same velocity.

I haven't had any die problems with the shorter brass (Lyman carbide die set in a Dillon RL-550), so I have no input here.

Unless you have a gun with a short cylinder, I don't see much need for the shorter cases. The M-57 doesn't need them. I think the round nose boolits will be more of an advantage than the shorter cases during reloads.

Regards,

Stew
Thanks Stew, I have felt the same as your quote, but I always called it "de-othed", I figure there are about 5-10 million or so of us still alive, Semper Fi

[DevilDog83]

The regular 41 Special is a fabulous round that's been around for years now. I wrote about it and had a revolver made for it. Read here: http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/41%20Special.htm

I have no idea if it would help with reload speed, though.

And welcome to the board!

Thanks Rocky, outstanding article

[AZ-Stew]

One advantage for the Special that I see is decreasing the volume of the case so the lighter charges of powder fill the case more completely, reducing any problems with powder position which can affect accuracy. Have fun with your project.

I'm a little bit hesitant to offer a contrary view to someone's first post, so please let me welcome you aboard to the best site on the net before I eat your lunch. :kidding: :bigsmyl2: I'm sure you'll find a wealth of excellent info here, as well as the best brotherhood I've experienced since I left active military duty. We do watch each other's backs and extend a hand when needed.

I wrestled with the "case filling powder" issue for a while when I got my first .41, a M-57 Smith with a 6 inch barrel. Unique doesn't fill the case, and Trail Boss was about 30 years in the future when I started handloading for the .41 (the day I bought it). I bought the gun because, like John Z Sr, I was shooting what then (1976) passed for Practical Pistol competition in the San Diego, CA, area. I worked with a M-19 .357 for a while, but it was too light to be able to control with ammo that would take the knock-down targets. Otherwise, I liked it. I tried making loads for my M-29 .44 Mag., but the heavier bullets made it a handful. In addition, light loads didn't agree with it, accuracy-wise. After some weeks and months of thinking the situation over, I reasoned that the .41 might be the tool I needed. The bullet is lighter than the one used in the .44, and the holes drilled through the .41 are smaller, resulting in a heavier gun. Between the two, I might be able to develop loads that would take the knock-downs while still being controllable. In addition, the smaller case would make it easier to find a load that would fill the case to the base of the bullet. As noted earlier, Unique didn't do the job for me. I found, however, that SR-7625 (now IMR 7625) in the gray label canister does fill the case to the base of the SWC boolits I mentioned in the earlier post, and this in full-length Magnum cases. These loads produce between 900 and 950 fps, depending on barrel length. They also produce excellent accuracy. I use 6.7 grains with a standard LR primer.

It can be done in a full-length case, but the shorter case may give you more powder choices.

Regards,

Stew

P.S. These loads worked GREAT for the competition we were doing. In the short time I was able to compete before being deployed, I managed to take a second place with that gun and load against other shooters, 75 percent of whom were using 1911 .45s.

[Rocky Raab]

As noted by everyone who has made 41 Specials, the smaller case adds materially to load consistency. It is no different than the results seen in the 38 vs 357 and 44 Special vs magnum: moderate loads in the smaller case are much more consistent than the same velocity load in the larger case.

In the 41 Magnum, the original "police" load was a 210 cast bullet at 950 fps, and it was notoriously poor, both in velocity consistency and accuracy. Part of it was the bullet softness, but not all. Load the same bullet to the same velocity in a shorter case and it's almost like magic with the improvement seen.

With a properly cast 215 SWC, a 950 fps load in my 41 Special usually has standard deviation numbers in single digits. SD isn't the only measurement of consistency, but it is a pretty good one. If there's room and need for a 38 and a 44 Special, there's just as much for a 41.

[DevilDog83]

Depending on case length I think your making the "41 Special".

Very much like the 44 special this should have been the fore runner of the magnum round but never made it into existance.

It's been a "wildcat" used on and off over the last 15 yrs or so by 41 guys.

The only advantage to the shorter case "might" be the fact that if you can find the right speed loader and boolit combo it might be held a bit firmer making alignment in the cylinder easier.

However I will tell you from past experience that "Gadgets", while cool, are not a substitute for practice! Make up a batch of dummy rounds, enough to fill all your loaders, and run them through the loading sequeance twice a night for the next month.

Don't try for speed try for smooth! Once you can do this very smoothly you'll be surprised how fast you are at a match!
Great advice, thank you, I've done the dummy loads, but still not as fast as my moonclips in 625, must practice for ICORE "RETRO" div

[Three44s]

Thanks AZ-Stew,

I've got a keg of SR 7625 to finnish off and the load I've found for the 9mm luger will take too long to use it up ......

....... enter the .41!!!

Three 44s

[DevilDog83]

Loads chronoed and shot for groups yesterday. Will gladly put up my results if anyone is interested. Time to trim up a few more so I can shoot USPSA match tomorrow, the .41 SS seems to be a great load!!!