444 Marlin Again

[helice]

I came on an article by Bob Forker in Guns &Ammo online extolling the vertues of my esteemed 444. In it he suggested using H110 with a 250 Sierra J-word. Recipe was from 33 to 37 grains boasting 2285 foot seconds for the max load.
I don't use j-word-ed slugs in the 444 but I do have a 429244 Thompson, a 280 grain LBT LFN-PB and a 300 grain LBT WFN-GC all of which perform nicely in the Big Bore Winchester. I gave up on hot-rodding the 444 both cause it doesn't need it and because I grew to not enjoy it. I look for a mild load in the neighborhood of 1800-1850 foot seconds. I have searched for other sourses to back up this load but have not found anyone putting their name next to Mr. Forker's. I am sure of Mr Forker's credentials--No questions there. But there are some warnings associated with 296 Winchester (also listed at 32-36 grains) and these warnings probably ride over to H110. Makes me to hesitate and to ask you'all. Are any of you using H110 in the 444? If so what are your results?

[Newtire]

I came on an article by Bob Forker in Guns &Ammo online extolling the vertues of my esteemed 444. In it he suggested using H110 with a 250 Sierra J-word. Recipe was from 33 to 37 grains boasting 2285 foot seconds for the max load.
I don't use j-word-ed slugs in the 444 but I do have a 429244 Thompson, a 280 grain LBT LFN-PB and a 300 grain LBT WFN-GC all of which perform nicely in the Big Bore Winchester. I gave up on hot-rodding the 444 both cause it doesn't need it and because I grew to not enjoy it. I look for a mild load in the neighborhood of 1800-1850 foot seconds. I have searched for other sourses to back up this load but have not found anyone putting their name next to Mr. Forker's. I am sure of Mr Forker's credentials--No questions there. But there are some warnings associated with 296 Winchester (also listed at 32-36 grains) and these warnings probably ride over to H110. Makes me to hesitate and to ask you'all. Are any of you using H110 in the 444? If so what are your results?

I don't think I'd try that load if I were you. If you want a nice easy shooting load, go with 25 grains of 2400 and the 429244. I'll have to get a velocity reading on it but just know that it shoots very accurately and not much recoil. I have also used up to 18 grains of BlueDot with that boolit and have played around with the Lee 200 grain and 12 grains of Unique for a real accurate 50 yd. plinker.

[Ranch Dog]

I looked at the 37.0-grains of H110 in QuickLoad and it generates only 22.5K PSI which is plenty safe. I'm making a couple assumptions; barrel length (24") and cartridge OAL (2.50'). The velocity generated by the software is very close to what he experienced.

[helice]

Newtire,
I have always had the same feeling about the load. Your load information is welcomed. I'll try the Blue Dot (to 18 gr) load and have used 2400 with success. Ran out of 2400 and no extra cash to restock. Want to use what I've got.

Ranch Dog,
Thanks for the information from your computer study. My loads are right around 2.50". The 244 Thompson is right on at 2.5 and so is the 280 LFN. The 300 WFN is seated deeper but not much. The barrel on the BigBore Winchester is only 20" with a 1 in 38 (ugh) twist. Your pressure figure is for the 37 gr load. Mr. Forker's start load is 33 grains. I'd like to start with that 33 grain load to find out the low end of the velocity range. But there are those warnings about decreasing the charge on these ball powders. Makes me hesitate. I'd also like to use the LBT bullets listed above. I noticed that you gave encouragement thru computer work but didn't state whether you'd recomend using this load. I'd appreciate your opinion.
keep writing --- I'm learning. Helice

[Newtire]

I was thinking about what they say that the H110 shouldn't be loaded less than full case capacity but what about if you were to use some sort of filler with these powders that are like this?

Because of SEE as I understand it..

I tell ya I had a problem with one of the loads listed in the 10th edition of Handloader's Digest where the guy wrote the article that persuaded me to buy a .444 (and I never regretted it!).

Anyway, the problem was a load that had 12 grains of Unique and a shot charge of 5/8 Oz. (I used 1/2oz.) capped off with a lubed round ball crimped in place. There wasn't very much recoil but man did that thing stick the cases-I shot 2 loads like a dummy. I always wondered if there was some compression of the shot maybe and that ball acted like an obstruction or what it was.??? I used a magnum CCI 250.

Other than that one load, all the others proved fun except that the 3-ball load kicked like a mule. A great article all in all. I lost the book since then.

[Ranch Dog]

I noticed that you gave encouragement thru computer work but didn't state whether you'd recomend using this load. I'd appreciate your opinion.
keep writing --- I'm learning. Helice

Honestly, I wouldn't use it. I think the results will be inconsistent. If you want that kind of velocity, use a full case of H4198.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

In my 444 I typically use a custom 500 grain bullet by Paul Jones. This, over 19 grains SR 4759 has worked wonderfully well for many years ~ all the way out to 1000 yards.

Good evenng,
Forrest

[helice]

Thanks Ranch Dog. That's what I needed. Got good results Tuesday with Re-7. Good enough so that I won't need to pursue H110.

Forrest,
Thanks for the load data. Lord have Mercy Brother. A 500 grain slug. WHew! And I thought my 300 WFNers kicked me hard.

Newtire,
Interesting load. Never occured to me to turn that thing into a shotgun. It must have occured to Winchester tho. They built the 9410.

Keep writing -- I'm learning.

[FAsmus]

Helice;

Thanks

The normal 444 won't shoot anything much heavier than a 350 grain bullet very well due to the slow twist barrel Marlin hangs on their rifle.

I shoot the 444 in a 12 pound custom single shot with a 1:16 twist. This works quite well.

Good morning,
Forrest

[Ricochet]

Winchester's original warning about downloading with 296 came from problems with squibbing in cold weather with W295P in .44 Magnum, which caused them to replace it with 296 and put the warning not to download on it. They were concerned about a bullet being stuck in the bore, followed by shooting another.

[helice]

FAsmus
I always hate to ask folks to put a picture on cause I don't have a clue how to do it myself -- but!!! I'd love to see that rifle.
You are dead on about the twist tho. I have read that the first Winchester Big Bores were much quicker twist. Then for some foolishness they went to the 1 in 38. Mine is the 1 in 38 and I've decided to shoot nothing bigger than the 300 grain LBT WFN-GC. Heck -- If I can't stop 'em with that I'll give all my guns to my brother's kids. FAsmus -- Thanks for the explanation. Keep writing -- I'm learning. Helice

[FAsmus]

Helice;

I don't know how to paste photos either ~ I guess I'd better learn one of these days.

To build a mental picture just think of a Winchester Hi-Wall. This rifle of mine is not a Winchester but a Fix Brothers Falling Block Works with the same silhouette ~ entirely different lockworks.

I always liked the 429 bore and when time came to build a singleshot rifle of my very own I elected to use the 444 case, which is pretty much exactly 1/2 between the 45/70 and the 40/65 in bore size.

The choice has been an adventure and brought me a certain amount of success now and then at long range matches.

The only porblem I encountered that could not be fixed was the lack of any selection in heavy 44 caliber bullet molds ~ thus I was lead to the custom mold method to feed the 444. This was a little pricy but mold and subsiquent bullet quality has always been very satisfactory.

Good evening,
Forrest

[helice]

Thanks for the mental picture. Sounds like a fun piece. How fast do you run that 500 grain slug? Helice

[FAsmus]

Helice;

The load goes around 1350 ft/sec or so. Too fast really, since anythng over the speed of sound results in excess wind-drift but I have not been able to get good accuracy with smokeless powder and retain anything like good Standard Deviations.

Good morning,
Forrest