Info on TrailBoss Powder

[sniper]

I just finished talking to a tech at Hodgdon, and he verified the info posted recently regarding Trail Boss Powder in rifle cartridges. 8-)

Reduced load=Fill a bottleneck case to the level of the seated boolit base, with no compression. Weigh that charge. That is the max, don't exceed load. Reduce it by 30%, and that is the starting load.

That opens up all sorts of possibilities for my 257 Roberts.

While we were at it, I asked him regarding 357 Magnum loads. He said that filling the case to the base of the boolit, again, with no compression, was a good "medium" load... probably about what I call a "hot .38-mild magnum load. I'd say the majority of my shooting is done with loads like that.

One thing he said was that for some strange reason, magnum primers produce much better consistency and accuracy in the 357 . Soooo...I guess I will be buying a box or three of magnum primers for the first time in 30+ years of handloading.

Having said that, please understand; I am not questioning the accuracy of the prior posters, who seem to be knowledgeable and accomplished reloaders, but with something like this new information, I tend to be very conservative.

[mpmarty]

So let's see, fill my .264 win mag to base of neck and that's ok? Then my 45/70 and my 10mm too? I find that hard to swallow. No offense but didn't he qualify his statements somewhat depending on case capacity?:holysheep

[fiatmom]

That was the same advice they gave me regarding a 50-70 and a 30-40 both seemed to work well. I also like that it isclean burning.

[peter nap]

They told me the same thing. Ain't true.

See this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63532&highlight=hard+cast

[sniper]

So let's see, fill my .264 win mag to base of neck and that's ok? Then my 45/70 and my 10mm too? I find that hard to swallow. No offense but didn't he qualify his statements somewhat depending on case capacity?:holysheep


No, not a qualification in the bunch. The advice for the 257 Roberts and .357 Magnim pistol loads was the same, and it seems quite a few forum members have verified, and received exactly the same information.

It's unlikely we all talked to the same tech, unless one is all they have, so I'll go with the experience. after all, you have to trust somebody. If not, what good are reloading manuals?

Nobody EVER should foolishly load a listed "max" load, without first trying a starting load, and increasing the charge in reasonable steps!

[jdgabbard]

I still think I would start off on the LOW LOW side... Just for safety sake. I like the idea of Trailboss too, though I havent used it. But I've found other so-called universal powders... Like Unique, 2400, H110, and 4227...

[Leverluver]

This info belongs in the thread referenced by Peter Nap but this thread is current so here it is.

Finally got curious enough to to buy a can so here are the results with a 45-70 22" barrel.

With Cast Performance 420 grain, there was room for 16.3 grains to the base of the bullet.

70% times 16.3 = 11.4 grains start load. That yielded 921 fps @ 25,100psi

Loaded two at 100% (16.3) with same bullet. First shot = 1059 fps @ 26,700
Second shot = 1100fps @ 30,600 (not terribly consistent)

Last one was loaded with 500 grain Saeco 881. 100% loading was 17.5grains to the base of the bullet. That yielded 1012 fps @ 29,500

That's a lot of pressure for some wimpy velocities but if used in only modern (not restricted to black powder pressures, i.e. 1876s, trapdoors, etc) rifles such as Miroku, Shiloh, or Marlin, it will probably stay together.

As far as the other thread where the factory rep "estimated" that you could get to 1500fps with a ~400 grain bullet, well he must have been smoking something.

Even 30,000psi falls well short of producing even black powder velocities. So if you want to use it, don't even think of approaching black velocities. If you follow the factory rules of no compression, you won't get there anyway.

Have no idea of what it would do in a bottle neck case. The rest of the container goes to fertilizing my bushes.

[jonk]

That's hard to believe. Trail boss is fluffy but fairly fast. In something like your .257 I can buy it. In my 7.62X54R we'd be talking something like 25-30 grains to fill the case, as my usual load of 12 grains only fills about half of it. That would worry me right there. Yeah, I think a Mosin would hold together but still.

[tommygirlMT]

So let's see, fill my .264 win mag to base of neck and that's ok? Then my 45/70 and my 10mm too? I find that hard to swallow. No offense but didn't he qualify his statements somewhat depending on case capacity?:holysheep

I can verify that it does work just fine for the 45/70 --- heck I've done full case compressed loads for my 45/120.

For the 10mm, I don't think so, but I havn't tried it. Short stubby pistol cases like 45-ACP work fine with a full case or compressed load but longer more slender pistol cases like the 41-mag (very comparible to the 10mm) are more like half case loads.

-----------------------------------------------------------

For IMR-TB powder in rifle cartridges, from personal experience I can say that it is only a best fit for rifle cartridge that also have listed full power jacketed loads with Reloader-7 powder. Simply substitute and equal volume of IMR-TB and a cast boolit for the jacketed bullet. It can be used in other rifle cartridges besides those suitable for R-7 for full power jacketed loads but it will not be a best fit for the cartridge.

[405]

This info belongs in the thread referenced by Peter Nap but this thread is current so here it is.

Finally got curious enough to to buy a can so here are the results with a 45-70 22" barrel.

With Cast Performance 420 grain, there was room for 16.3 grains to the base of the bullet.

70% times 16.3 = 11.4 grains start load. That yielded 921 fps @ 25,100psi

Loaded two at 100% (16.3) with same bullet. First shot = 1059 fps @ 26,700
Second shot = 1100fps @ 30,600 (not terribly consistent)

Last one was loaded with 500 grain Saeco 881. 100% loading was 17.5grains to the base of the bullet. That yielded 1012 fps @ 29,500

That's a lot of pressure for some wimpy velocities but if used in only modern (not restricted to black powder pressures, i.e. 1876s, trapdoors, etc) rifles such as Miroku, Shiloh, or Marlin, it will probably stay together.

As far as the other thread where the factory rep "estimated" that you could get to 1500fps with a ~400 grain bullet, well he must have been smoking something.

Even 30,000psi falls well short of producing even black powder velocities. So if you want to use it, don't even think of approaching black velocities. If you follow the factory rules of no compression, you won't get there anyway.

Have no idea of what it would do in a bottle neck case. The rest of the container goes to fertilizing my bushes.

Leverluver,
Thanks for posting the data!
Looks like your velocity/pressure data agrees with what I've suspected about the powder. In contrast, I've had excellent results with Trailboss in the short, very high expansion ratio cartridges shooting low velocity cast.... like 38-40, 44-40, 38 Spl and 45 ACP. Seems very logical considering the fast, low density powder it is.