Case full of Bullseye

[abunaitoo]

A good friend of mine loaded some ammo to shoot cowboy.
He thought he was loading Pyrodex pistol, but found out later it was Bullseye.
One round was fired.
Except for a little more recoil, nothing really exciting happened.
Bullet and powder went out.
Question is was he lucky or when Bullseye is compressed, it louses power????

Remaining rounds were taken apart.
Bullseye was packed tight. Had to dig it out.
I've never noticed it before, but Bullseye looks a lot like Pyrodex pistol.

[44man]

EXTREMELY lucky, nothing like shooting a pipe bomb. :shock:

[Cactus Farmer]

Lucky he still has a head! Hard to believe it didn't remove the top strap and his scalp!

[Johnch]

I have seen the results of a 44 mag case full of Bullseye and a 240 Gr jacketed bullet when fired in a Super Blackhawlk

They never did find all the parts of the cyclinder
The topstrap broken off at the front and was bent back almost straight up

So IMO either it wasn't Bullseye or maybe the light cast bullet saved his backside

John

John

[abunaitoo]

The powder was in a Pyrodex bottle, but had some letters "**seye" on the side. "*" were just smuges.
Compared real bullseye with the one in the bottle, and it looked the same.
Maybe old bullseye????
I was wondering if because it was compressed, it didn't have the air space to completely burn????
Which maybe why it didn't blow-up.

I never put different powders in different containers.
Seems like common sence to me.
I've heard of a few people doing the samething. Wrong powder loaded because it was in a different container.
One guy had Unique in a IMR4898 can.
Rifle ended up in many little pieces.
Lucky he didn't get hurt to badly.

[Ricochet]

Supposedly Ruger demonstrated the strength of the original .44 Magnum Blackhawk by filling the cases with Bullseye, seating 240 grain bullets over it and shooting it without harm. I got that out of the book "Bill Ruger and His Guns."

[stubshaft]

Supposedly Ruger demonstrated the strength of the original .44 Magnum Blackhawk by filling the cases with Bullseye, seating 240 grain bullets over it and shooting it without harm. I got that out of the book "Bill Ruger and His Guns."

Early tests of Freedom Arms did the same thing. They estimated pressures at 62,000CUP

[sagacious]

...
Compared real bullseye with the one in the bottle, and it looked the same.
Maybe old bullseye????
If the powder was determined to be "Bullseye" by comparing it to a known sample of Bullseye, then that identification remains suspect.

The reloader initially-- and mistakenly-- believed the powder was Pyrodex, based partially on looks. The later ID of Bullseye based on looks should not be considered adequate to begin using that powder as "Bullseye." Just words to the wise.


I was wondering if because it was compressed, it didn't have the air space to completely burn????
Which maybe why it didn't blow-up.
...
Bullseye powder does not need any air to combust completely. All it needs is a spark.
Glad your friend and his firearm are both undamaged. :)

[StarMetal]

Supposedly Ruger demonstrated the strength of the original .44 Magnum Blackhawk by filling the cases with Bullseye, seating 240 grain bullets over it and shooting it without harm. I got that out of the book "Bill Ruger and His Guns."


John,

In a past month or subscription of Shooting Times there was a blown up 44 mag Blackhawk, new model. It was blown up with the wrong charge of a pistol powder much slower then Bullseye. It took out the chamber on the cylinder and blew off the tops strap. That sure is hard to believe Ruger did that demonstration with his original 44 mag Blackhawk. Not saying he didn't, just amazing after see the Ruger in Shooting Times.

Joe

[Horace]

Ruger and his guns,page 126 column 3 paragraph 3. Old Army! Horace

[StarMetal]

I believe because it's not a cartridge gun and the bullet isn't tight in a case, plus the fact that gas vents out the nipple is the reason the gun didn't blow.

Joe

[sargenv]

I heard about the results of a 19 gr charge of Bullseye and a 240 gr bullet in a Redhawk, It turned the cylinder slightly oval and required a hammer to remove said cylinder from the frame. When the cylinder came out the primer fell out of the case, and the case was a Federal and while oversized it was not split (this was about 20 years ago). Sent it back to Ruger, fitted a new cylinder, and it was about as tight as any newer one..

[softpoint]

I still have the remains of a friend's .45 Blackhawk that was loaded with 18 gr. Universal and a 250 gr. bullet. Result of pumping the handle on a Dillon 550 twice without advancing the shellplate. Top three chambers gone. Backstrap humped like a camel. Split where the barrel screws in, and barrel fell off. I was standing right beside him peering through a spotting scope and what we think was part of one of the chambers took one of the legs off the scope tripod! Neither one of us got a scratch out of it, I think he had a flinch for a little while after that. We were lucky.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, I've just been browsing through the Ruger book, and the only instance I can find of that Bullseye overload test is in the Old Army .44, not the .44 Magnum. They had to ream out the nipples to get the percussion caps to light the Bullseye.

I can't remember sheep anymore. I'm blaming the birthday I had last week.

[StarMetal]

Yeah, I've just been browsing through the Ruger book, and the only instance I can find of that Bullseye overload test is in the Old Army .44, not the .44 Magnum. They had to ream out the nipples to get the percussion caps to light the Bullseye.

I can't remember sheep anymore. I'm blaming the birthday I had last week.


John,

That's what I suspected my friend. Reaming those nipple holes out helped get rid of the pressure too. All in all in my opinion that's not a great test. We know unless special steps are taken that smokeless powder doesn't make a good bomb, because you have to get the pressure up very fast with no gases leaking off.

Joe

[wistlepig1]

A few years back (30), I saw a Brand New Colt Python that a full case of Red dot was used. It was a 4 cylinder without back strap model after being fire and a small amout of blood on the guys face. BUY A LOTTERY TICKET, he was real lucky.

[dualsport]

Without admitting to anything real stupid, I can vouch for the strength of the ROA .44. In my early days I 'experimented' a little. Nowadays I don't mistreat my guns like I did. On a side note, I bought an old ROA cheap way back, it was the pre-warning barrel. The trigger was messed up by the previous owner. I sent it to Ruger, told them the truth, and they fixed it for free. Good company.

[softpoint]

I've heard the story about not being able to blow a Freedom arms revolver up with conventional smokeless powder. I know theyare made of a special high strength steel, and I also know that some of the early .454 factory loads will cause real problems in a Super Redhawk.
Still, you won't catch me leveling off a case full of any fast shotgun powder and seating a bullet on it to prove it in either of my Freedom revolvers.:holysheep

[Doughty]

About 25 years ago, an aquaintance mixed up his 2400 and Bullseye. It took out the top of the cylinder and the topstrap of a very nice .44 Super Blackhawk. Fortunately, I wasn't there when it happened, but saw it afterwards.

[MT Gianni]

Could it have been a mix of Bullseye and Pyrodex? No one really knows what is in that can and I hope it has been relegated to fertilizer, but pyrodex being notoriously hard to ignite, could it have been a mix? I would not want to be on the next bench when someone fired a casefull of bullseye.

[BerdanIII]

I'm with MT Gianni; it sounds like somebody decided to duplex in the wrong way and mixed the two together. A compressed load (as noted in the original post) of Bullseye should have produced some real fireworks.

[OldBob]

I am wondering if the powder being compressed may have made less surface area available for ignition thereby creating a "progressive" burn which saved his hand .......... not a theory I am willing to test though.

[softpoint]

I wouldn't think it would matter much how compressed the powder was. I 've gone from loose powder charges to heavily compressed with the same powder in both handgun and rifles working up loads, and the gains in pressure-velocity seemed pretty consistent unless it was a powder that has a tendency to spike. and, of course, powder needs no air space to burn. Just my opinion, but I would suspect the powder charge was either contaminated, or the propellant is not what it is suspected to be. I can almost guarantee you that a compressed load of good bullseye behind a 240 or 250 gr. bullet will distort the nice looks of a Super Blackhawk. As I was saying, a Blackhawk in .45 will NOT tolerate 18 gr. of Universal. and this wasn't Universal clays, (that might have been more lively!)
Having seen a couple of revolver blowups when I owned a public range, and being 3 feet away from one here at home, and what I've read ,nearly all blowups are caused by double charging, often with a progressive loader. And it's not the loading machine's fault, it goes where the driver takes it! The other cause is wrong powder.

[Tom308]

Toss it. Count it as a lesson learned. Your choice is use it or not. It sounds unsafe. It's up to you. Is it worth more than your life? You decide.

[shooterg]

Anybody else remember when you took a glass mason jar to your powder guy and he filled it from a big old keg ? Usually put some freezer tape on 'em and labeled in ink. The "good ole days" !

[trk]

Anybody else remember when you took a glass mason jar to your powder guy and he filled it from a big old keg ? Usually put some freezer tape on 'em and labeled in ink. The "good ole days" !

I can remember my step-dad bringing back a couple of quarts of blasting powder from the quarry - to shoot in the 1" bore cannon and for splitting wood with a 'powder wedge'.

[Bill*]

Toss it. Count it as a lesson learned. Your choice is use it or not. It sounds unsafe. It's up to you. Is it worth more than your life? You decide.
Where in the thread did anyone mention using it?

[Bullshop Junior]

See why I don't put a case full of Bullseye in my Ruger?!?!?!?!?!?!

[TAWILDCATT]

any guns I have been near that have exploded did not make a loud noise.
explosions go fast.

[376Steyr]

For years a local store displayed a wrecked Ruger Super Blackhawk in the reloading area. A tag on it said the owner used W231 instead of the W296 called for. 20+ grains of W231 must have made some fireworks.

[DevilDog83]

Might be a good time to remember good, safe loading and storage practices

[405]

any guns I have been near that have exploded did not make a loud noise.
explosions go fast.

First, I don't know how it would be possible to fill a case with Bullseye and not create a serious over-pressure or burst or excitement in some form! Maybe something the size of a 22 rimfire in a strong action.... but then the case may well rupture sending out a little jet of super high velocity gas.

Tawildcatt,

I believe you are exactly right. Been around a few of them. Two were not intentional. Likely double charges of Bullseye in 357 S&W 19s . (around 12-13 gr. Bullseye under 158 gr cast bullet). Both ruptured the chambers and blew the top straps off the guns. No extra loud boom.... not much different from a normal high power pistol load.

Two were done on purpose. One was remarkable. Under controlled conditions, I filled a 7X57 case with Bullseye. Seated a 175 gr. Jbullet on top. Attached the gun, a small ring Mauser, to a stand. Rigged a remote firing device. Set up a high speed video camera to capture the event. Used an open top bunker to shield my firing position.... about 20 feet away. Fired the gun. The sound was not at all like a big booooom. More like a somewhat muffled, very high pitched crack. The case full of Bullseye load set the Mauser bolt back about 3/8"-1/2", splintered the stock, bulged the bottom metal, stripped the extractor off the bolt and compeletly vaporized the case. Surprising to me it did not rupture the chamber or the receiver ring. It did bulge the chamber/ring maybe 1/4". Will give credit to that type of Mauser as being strong.

[Ricochet]

I had a Guns & Ammo annual in the very early '70s with an article on the Ruger M77. They claimed Ruger had dipped a 7mm Remington Magnum case full of Unique, seated a 175 grain bullet on it and fired it remotely. According to the story, the bolt was frozen and had to be hammered open with a wooden mallet. The brass case had flowed into the bolt face. But supposedly the action was intact with all measurements within specifications.

[BOOM BOOM]

Yikes!!!!!!!!
Had a friend who when he started loading just took a spoon & pored in powder till 357 case looked full enough. He did it that way because his dad did it that way.
I did convince him that it was a mistake.

[Ricochet]

There are powders in many rifle cartridges that can safely be loaded by dipping the case full and seating a bullet on it. I've tried some of those loads, and discovered the risk of collapsing a case neck if you get a powder grain trapped between the bullet and case mouth. Or wedged between a boattail and case neck.