Hot Blueing Questions

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I did a search concerning hot blueing and ther were several posts which mentioned using lye with ammonium nitrate or potasium nitrate.

For those that use either of these formulas. Which is more user friendly and why?

Also any tips for useing this method would be appreciated.

I have been rust blueing for awhile now and I have several firearms stacked up needing to be blued prior to Christmas. I would like to hot blue these and get them done a little quicker.

Regards,
Everett

[deltaenterprizes]

Potassium nitrate will not make a cloud of ammonia gas when you add it to the mix and you will not attract the attention of the Feds thinking you are planning a terrorist act!

[Storydude]

Both of them will eat a hole through most organics in a matter of seconds once up to temp.

Remember, that is a hot caustic bubbling away in front of you, with a boiling point WAY above that of water.

[ETG]

Potassium nitrate (Nitrate of Soda) is a LOT easier to get - ACE hardware and other places that carriy a variety of fertilizer. Ace also carries 100% lye.

[waksupi]

Hot blue is potassium nitrate, potassium nitrite, and lye. Buy from Brownells, easier and safer than mixing your own.

[Ekalb2000]

Scrol down about 1/3 the page.
I havent tried it yet, but I got the stump removed ready.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/58

[S.R.Custom]

Hot blue is potassium nitrate, potassium nitrite, and lye. Buy from Brownells, easier and safer than mixing your own.

Define "hot bluing"...

Potassium Nitrate (AKA salt peter or stump remover) is used for nitre bluing. It's usually used straight, and heated to 750° or more in small batches to achieve that old Colt peacock blue for "small" parts. Not to be used on heat-treated parts like slides, receivers, or cylinders.

What's more commonly referred to as hot blue these days is the black oxide surface treatment that all the major manufacturers are using these days to finish their blued guns. It consists of Sodium Hydroxide (lye), Sodium Nitrite, and Sodium Nitrate. This is the mixture of Oxi-Blak, the bluing salt mixture as supplied by Du-Lite to Ruger, Winchester, Sig-Sauer, et.al.

Don't waste your time with Brownell's. None of the MFR's use that recipe. It's overpriced, it contains a lot of other trash, and the bath depletes much more rapidly than the industry standard stuff described above.

If you know what's in the salt mixtures --and now you do-- you don't necessarily have to get it from Du-Lite, either. You can get everything from these guys for waaaay cheaper...

http://tinyurl.com/ydsduuy

Just do me a favor-- do your homework before mixing up a bunch. This stuff is highly corrosive and will burn your face off and possibly kill you if you don't do it right.

[waksupi]

Define "hot bluing"...

Potassium Nitrate (AKA salt peter or stump remover) is used for nitre bluing. It's usually used straight, and heated to 750° or more in small batches to achieve that old Colt peacock blue for "small" parts. Not to be used on heat-treated parts like slides, receivers, or cylinders.

What's more commonly referred to as hot blue these days is the black oxide surface treatment that all the major manufacturers are using these days to finish their blued guns. It consists of Sodium Hydroxide (lye), Sodium Nitrite, and Sodium Nitrate. This is the mixture of Oxi-Blak, the bluing salt mixture as supplied by Du-Lite to Ruger, Winchester, Sig-Sauer, et.al.

Don't waste your time with Brownell's. None of the MFR's use that recipe. It's overpriced, it contains a lot of other trash, and the bath depletes much more rapidly than the industry standard stuff described above.

If you know what's in the salt mixtures --and now you do-- you don't necessarily have to get it from Du-Lite, either. You can get everything from these guys for waaaay cheaper...

http://tinyurl.com/ydsduuy

Just do me a favor-- do your homework before mixing up a bunch. This stuff is highly corrosive and will burn your face off and possibly kill you if you don't do it right.


550-600 for niter blueing. 700 range will make a grey color. We did buy salts from Brownells this summer, and the only ingredients listed were the nitrite, nitrate, and lye. No fillers.

[ETG]

I have recipes for Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Nitrate but none that include Potassium Nitrite. Do you happen to have the mix ratios?

[stubshaft]

Beteeen 385 and 400 for Dulite

[Ricochet]

Potassium nitrate will not make a cloud of ammonia gas when you add it to the mix and you will not attract the attention of the Feds thinking you are planning a terrorist act!
Worse, it'll get the drug cops down on you thinking you're running a meth lab.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

As far as I'm concerned, if the officers have probable cause, they check me out until their ears fall off. I am not doing anything illegal and they would be wasting their time. I'm not going to not purchase something just because some jerk wants to use the same product to manufacture a substance that will cause their teeth to fall out.

The intent of my question was to determine if either ingredient was a better performer than the other.

But, please, don't get me wrong I appreciate the responses and concerns raised about the possible side affects of purchasing the ingredients needed.

Regards,

Everett Reed

[S.R.Custom]

Both of them will eat a hole through most organics in a matter of seconds once up to temp.

Remember, that is a hot caustic bubbling away in front of you, with a boiling point WAY above that of water.

Indeed. But the bubbling caustic isn't the biggest danger; that's manageable enough. The fun part is when you first mix the stuff up. If you're not careful, you can ruin a pair of boots in a heartbeat. Makes the tinsel fairy look like a sissy.


The intent of my question was to determine if either ingredient was a better performer than the other.

That's hard to say. As I mentioned befgore, the net result of the various recipes is essentially the same, with only subtle differences; in doing my research I ran across a number of old-time recipes that omit the nitrite altogether. But who knows what else is going on? What all the recipes these days omit is the one ingredient that makes for that exquisite depth and luster found on the old '50s Smiths... cyanide.

Well, that and a decent polish job. :-?

If you're really in the mood to flirt with the fates, I've got a 1927 copy of "Machinery's Shop Receipts." There are all kinds of interesting recipes in there guaranteed to raise the eyebrows of the local constabulary.


...We did buy salts from Brownells this summer, and the only ingredients listed were the nitrite, nitrate, and lye. No fillers.

The nitrite, nitrate, and the lye are the three active ingredients... The Du-Lite salts mix up 8 pounds to the gallon, and Brownells' instructions call for 10# per gallon. When the end result is the same, that's 2# per gallon of "stuff" in the Brownells mixture that I obviously don't need....



Beteeen 385 and 400 for Dulite

Du-Lite specifies 285° and 305°, depending on whether you are using the one or two tank process.

[Storydude]

Indeed. But the bubbling caustic isn't the biggest danger; that's manageable enough. The fun part is when you first mix the stuff up. If you're not careful, you can ruin a pair of boots in a heartbeat. Makes the tinsel fairy look like a sissy.



That's hard to say. As I mentioned befgore, the net result of the various recipes is essentially the same, with only subtle differences; in doing my research I ran across a number of old-time recipes that omit the nitrite altogether. But who knows what else is going on? What all the recipes these days omit is the one ingredient that makes for that exquisite depth and luster found on the old '50s Smiths... cyanide.

Well, that and a decent polish job. :-?

If you're really in the mood to flirt with the fates, I've got a 1927 copy of "Machinery's Shop Receipts." There are all kinds of interesting recipes in there guaranteed to raise the eyebrows of the local constabulary.



The nitrite, nitrate, and the lye are the three active ingredients... The Du-Lite salts mix up 8 pounds to the gallon, and Brownells' instructions call for 10# per gallon. When the end result is the same, that's 2# per gallon of "stuff" in the Brownells mixture that I obviously don't need....




Du-Lite specifies 285° and 305°, depending on whether you are using the one or two tank process.

Agreed. First batch I tried to make, I was amazed at how Exothermic the Lye became when added to the water. It'll heat 5 gallons of water almost to the boiling point itself.

[c3d4b2]

Does the type of tank you use make a difference?

[S.R.Custom]

Absolutely. The tanks must be:

Steel (or stainless steel)
Welded (not brazed)
And if they're regular steel, they must NOT be galvanized.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Allright fellas, it did not work.

I am using:
1. lye drain cleaner crystals (100% lye according to the MSDS)
2. stump remover (100% potasium nitrate according to the MSDS)
3. an A36 steel tank (welded)

I mixed up the solution using weight to determin volumns and a gallon of water.

Used a single burner colman as the heat source.

I do not think it heated up enough, but my concern is that with heat I was useing it did not do any coloring to a nail I was testing. Does this solution have an "activation" temperature? I am goin to try a larger heat source but thought I would asked the question.

When I let the solution cool, I was able to see crystals formed in the solution, but it was still in liquid form. Is that normal?

Any insight is appreciated.

Regards,
Everett

[Cactus Farmer]

270 -300 degrees F. is about right. I like mine to start boiling about 230 or so and add water to the COLD mixture to acheve this temp. I guess on the amount to add at about 2 gallons of RO water in my set up. No color will show until 260 -270 and Hard metal will blue first,soft iron,IE, a nail may take 300. Above 300 very far it is red rust time! Watch your parts and remove them when blue,leaving to softer parts to cook a bit longer.....

[dubber123]

How many gallons of solution? It's VERY likely the single burner Coleman doesn't produce enough BTU's to gain the heat needed. Remember, once it starts to boil, you don't gain any heat. If it is boiling at too low a temp, add salts. Boils at too hot a temp, add water. If you weren't aware, adding water must be done VERY slowly. Dumping water into 280° mix will get you a face full of it. The temps are so high, you get instant steam. Go slow.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

dubber,

It never came to a boil. I had a feeling that the volume of solution was to much for my little stove. I still have to get larger heat source to bring this thing to a boil.

Thanks all,
Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Just a note of thanks to all who had an input here.

I had great success with my first "hot blue". [smilie=w:The quality of the black/blue using the "homemade formula" was as good as any I seen on factory re-blues.

As usual the members on this forum are a world of help.

Kind Regards,

Everett

[scrapcan]

Everett,

have any pictures of the blueing work?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I'll try to get a picture of the revolver tonight and post it tomorrow. I do not have a before polish picture. I wish i would remember to start taking pictures before hand. :oops: Anyway, I am happy with the results.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I wasn't able to load the pictures yesterday, but I have one to try today.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSCF0868.jpg

This was the only picture that did the work any justice.

I tried to get some up close pictures but the oil on the revolver messed with pictures.

Again, Thanks for the assistance

Everett

[nascarkent]

Enerett I sent you PM on this thread. Kent

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

PM'd you back.

Everett

[scrapcan]

Everett,

I think that would look good with a set of ivorex grips properly fit.

I agree I thinkthe deep blue lustre is nice. You done good.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Yeah it turned out nice with the grips.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSCF0870.jpg
Sorry its a little blurry. I'm not a photographer:veryconfu

Everett

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Another success...
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/SPRINGFIELDM141972/DSCF0871.jpg

This stuff is great!

[scrapcan]

Everett,

those two look good. How hard was the ivorex to work with?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I was surprised. It worked down like bone. I was expecting it to load up my files like plastics normally do. I had no with loading at all. Thanks again for setting me up with those.

Everett