310 Lee in 444M

[1Shirt]

Howdy, Am looking for an accurate load that will run around 1600-1700 in 24" 444 with the 310 Lee. Mine is one of the first ones produced, and I am sizing .431. Have gotten fairly reasonable accuracy with 2400, but have yet to chrono any of the loads. Am wondering if anybody has had any experiance or luck with 5744? Asked the same question on another forum, and got one reply that said he had shot a wild hog in the head with that bullet at about 1400, and it dropped, got back up, took off, and was never seen again. Have had pretty good results with the original Keith 240 (mine runs a bit heavier, but have to seat it so deep that it is just a butt ugly looking load. I like shooting the heavier cast bullets per ctg. and just sort of like the looks of this 310 Lee. It is a shame that Marlin doesn't make a bit longer action and a bit longer throat so that the real potential of the 444 could be realized. Would love to have a single shot in 444 that had a throat long enough to seat this 310, and some of the even heavier bullets out where they belong.

Anyhow, I thank in advance all who answer this thread.

1Shirt

[Buckshot]

...............1shirt, I don't have a Marlin leveraction 444. Mines built on a Martini action. It has a standard throat as a regular 444 Marlin reamer was used. Also, my barrel has a 16" twist and seems to begin to scatter cast boolits up around 1800 fps.

But anyway, here's some loads. These were loaded with surplus powders over standard primers. This is data I posted on Castpics load data, which is purely for surplus numbers.

All are with the Lee C431-310RF:

SR4759 : 25-28 grains, 1650 to 1790 fps. Used dacron filler. Note, this surplus powder is the same as canister SR4759. Surplus SR4759 is no longer avail so use canister powder. Same stuff.

WC846 : 46.0 grains. 1840 fps. Used dacron. This powder is still available

4895 : 45-48.0 grains. 1650 - 1750 fps. Surplus, no longer available. A bit slower then canister 4895. Use canister, start 10% lower

Another good powder would be IMR3031. Start at 40.0grs and work up.

...............Buckshot

[1Shirt]

Thanks Buckshot, Will give some of these a try. I would still like to find someone who has tried 5744 in the ctg. Again thanks. 1Shirt

[Rrusse11]

Howdy, Am looking for an accurate load that will run around 1600-1700 in 24" 444 with the 310 Lee. Mine is one of the first ones produced, and I am sizing .431. Have gotten fairly reasonable accuracy with 2400, but have yet to chrono any of the loads. Am wondering if anybody has had any experiance or luck with 5744? Asked the same question on another forum, and got one reply that said he had shot a wild hog in the head with that bullet at about 1400, and it dropped, got back up, took off, and was never seen again. Have had pretty good results with the original Keith 240 (mine runs a bit heavier, but have to seat it so deep that it is just a butt ugly looking load. I like shooting the heavier cast bullets per ctg. and just sort of like the looks of this 310 Lee. It is a shame that Marlin doesn't make a bit longer action and a bit longer throat so that the real potential of the 444 could be realized. Would love to have a single shot in 444 that had a throat long enough to seat this 310, and some of the even heavier bullets out where they belong.

Anyhow, I thank in advance all who answer this thread.

1Shirt

1Shirt,
Haven't done much with the C310 in the 444,,, along came a Marlin 1894PG in 44Mag,,, and I got sidetracked. Try Rl7, works well for me.
And take a look at this:
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/TUNING_M_1894.htm
Excellent advice and techniques on how to tune ur Marlins, the 1894 info is applicable to the 336/444/1895 action. In an hour or two and some carefull file and stone work, you'll improve ur COAL by a good .075", a very appreciable difference in dealing with exactly the problems you've mentioned.
I'm now to the stage with my Marlins that I've got a series of tweaks that happens to 'em all,,, and have just started getting into the last major hurdle of getting the triggers improved. A very simple action to work on, IMHO, and responds well to some TLC and carefully applied elbow grease.
Cheers,
R*2

[1Shirt]

Thanks Russe11, Good info. Now, if I had the patients, a good set of screwdrivers, and a bit more talent think I would have the guts to try try some of the tune up. However, I am a right brained type and am somewhat more less challanged with a tool in my hand. Makes me sometimes wonder how I have managed to be at least a reasonably competant reloader for over 40 years.
1Shirt

[JohnH]

I'd be curious for a report on how this bullet shoots in your early Marlin. Those barrels were 1:38 twist, I have an NEF in 44 magnum with that same twist and it makes pretty keyholes even at 15 yards. However, My Ruger Super Blackhawk has a faster 1:20 twist and shoots 'em just fine. I did find that he 300 grianer from Magnus Bullet Co. (#704) shots just fine, as does Hornady's 300 XTP. Seems to be a length thing going on and the the latter bullets are at the edge of the twists ability ot stabilize, while the 310 is over. Hope they shoot OK in yours, Let us know.

[drinks]

I am using H110 with the Lee 310 in my '92 .44-40, getting 1400fps and 2" at 50 yds with original sights, IMR 4227 or IMR 4198 would be worth a try in your .444.
I hope to get a handi rifle in .44 mag. and rent the circulating reamer and then have a .444 for real.
Don

[Rrusse11]

Gents,
For those who are having stabilisation problems at Mach 1 velocities with the slow twist , 1:38, 444M and 44Mag:

http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28

Check out the other 2 articles in the series on the 444,, Marshall has done some EXTENSIVE testing of the cartridge. The Lee C310 will stabilise,,,but you do need some velocity well above 1200 fps. In my 444 the boolit starts to settle down at ~ 1500fps. Haven't played with it much beyond that at this stage. And please don't tell my Marlin 1894PG that it ain't supposed to shoot or feed SWC's. The RCBS C235 and the Lee C255 both feed and shoot superbly. But I am most definitely not at the grey zone of boolit instability of Mach 1, circa 1100fps.
Cheers,
R*2

[beagle]

You might try some 2015 in it also.

I have one of the newer .444s with the 1-20 twist and it's not picky at all on bullets or powders. Likes the 44-300-SWC RCBS and will tolerate ny my H & G Keiths.

With the 1-38 twist, you have to work at it. Brian Pierce wrote a pretty good article on the .444 in Handloader a while back. You might dig that up. A pretty good read.

I've heard that Marlin will rebarrel with the new barrels pretty cheap as well./beagle

[26Charlie]

1Shirt,
I used this bullet in my .444 Marlin sporter, with 42 gr. of 4197 (a Scot powder supposedly like 4198) and also with 50 gr. of Accurate Arms 2460. The latter load is more consistent an also about as much as you can cram into the case, crimping of the top crimp groove. I shot this load in a CB silhouette match, and it would dump the ram at 200 meters with pretty good authority, but 40 rounds of this full-house load was darn near verging on too much fun in one day. Are you really a first shirt?

[Ranch Dog]

Asked the same question on another forum, and got one reply that said he had shot a wild hog in the head with that bullet at about 1400, and it dropped, got back up, took off, and was never seen again.

That would be me ;-)

I did unpack my reloading records and here is what I was using...

Hornady brass and CCI LR (200) primers.

6.6 grains of Unique - 1450 FPS (I added a poly-fiber filler between the powder and the base of the bullet. This batting material I cut in 1" X 1 1/2" strips and it fits the 444 case very nicely. The sheet of batting is about 1/4" in thickness.)

45 grains of RL7 - 2010 FPS
48 grains of BL-C (2) - 2000 FPS

I seated the cartridge to an OAL of 2.5" and used the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I did not worry about the crimp grooves and did not have any problems with the bullet unseating during recoil. I pulled a bullet and the Lee FCD does an excellent job of establishing it's own crimp groove! The bullet was cast with a mix of 50/50 wheelweights/linotype and had a BHN of 21.

Those charges are the max loads I achieved with the particular powder. In all I shot about 300 of these bullets through my 444P. All of these powders shot well, the higher the velocity the less accurate, but still acceptable. That is simply a fact of pressure vs. bullet diameter and length. That load with Unique was very accurate and I played heck on the racoon and skunk population on my place. I was hoping to try it on a turkey the morning I shot the hog.

I hope to return to this bullet one day. I think it is a bit long (.86") for the 1-38 twist of the early Marlins and a bit small in diameter. The only one I can change is the bullet diameter and I plan on simply lapping the mold to make it a silly .001" larger!

[1Shirt]

1Shirt,
I used this bullet in my .444 Marlin sporter, with 42 gr. of 4197 (a Scot powder supposedly like 4198) and also with 50 gr. of Accurate Arms 2460. The latter load is more consistent an also about as much as you can cram into the case, crimping of the top crimp groove. I shot this load in a CB silhouette match, and it would dump the ram at 200 meters with pretty good authority, but 40 rounds of this full-house load was darn near verging on too much fun in one day. Are you really a first shirt?

26Charlie, Yep, am a bonifide 1st.Shirt, USAF, 3yrs in USMC, 20 in AF, now retired for 25 yrs and still miss it.
1Shirt

[1Shirt]

Thanks Ranch Dog, Will be working on loads for the trip4 this summer and will work with some of your recommendations. I like the Lee factory crimper and have one for each of the 20 or so ctgs that I load. Was interested in the Veral Smith endorsement of them in the latest Rifleman. Hang tough.
1Shirt