Military brass problem

[peter nap]

This is embarrassing but.. in 30 odd years of handloading, I guess I never reloaded any military brass.

I found a box(s) (about a thousand cases total) that I have no idea where I got it...but it is full of military 30/06 brass. I threw as much as I could get in the tumbler and cleaned it up, checked to make sure it was boxer primed, decapped them and started to prime them. First primer was tight and got stuck just as it entered the pocket.

I played the devil getting it out and looked the pocket over. It doesn't look like it was ever crimped, it's just a tad small.

All the cases are like that.

I pulled out some Federal cases just to make sure the primers weren't oversize and they primed fine. I'm using Federal Large Rifle Primers.

Anyone ever run into this?

[Maven]

"Anyone ever run into this?"

Peter,

I run into this all the time. You have to swage the primer pockets or use a the pointed end of a case deburring tool (looks like a countersink) to remove the crimp. Don't overdo this as not all large rifle primers are of the same diameter. Btw, if the brass is at least 30 yrs. old, you may want to anneal after sizing it to prevent split necks. (Don't ask how I know this.)

[Hardcast416taylor]

The tight pocket primer cases that I have come across were european made, even if they are boxer primed. Sounds like you need a primer pocket swager from RCBS or some other company to use before trying to prime them again.Robert

[peter nap]

Thank Guys! If I can't find a swage at Greentops Tonight, I'll order one tomorrow.

The only markings on the head are
L C
5 4

[Suo Gan]

Lake City Arsenal, 1954.

[HORNET]

Lyman makes a reamer to get the pocket up to minimum size per SAAMI specs and reshape the crimp area. Available for large rifle and small rifle sizes. I wore out a couple of each some decades ago.

[Lead Fred]

I use the RCBS case station pocket uniformer one time on all my milspec brass.
I stick it in my cordless drill. Wear gloves

Its a good thing to have the hand one for the stubborn ones

[Le Loup Solitaire]

As already suggested an RCBS primer pocket swager will do the job. Part of the kit is a collar that the case is backed down on to pull the swage out of the pocket. Often the case doesn't come off easily and some force has to be exerted on the bottom of the reverse stroke to pop it free. But it does a good job and the crimp is gone. The nose of the deburring tool...whichever brand you choose also works well, but just as effective and a lot cheaper is an ordinary machineshop style countersink; also the type used by woodworkers (for screws) altho of a lesser angle will also get rid of the crimp. Chucking a countersink in a drill set at slow speed or a cordless screwdriver will take the pressure off the fingers, but go slow as too much metal can disappear too fast. A last thing to do that is of some importance is to take a 1/8" screwdriver and scrape/clean the residue out of the bottom of the primer pocket so that the new primer seats well. LLS

[lead-1]

I did up 500 or so LC 54 and LC 52 brass a couple of months ago, I used the Lyman primer pocket reamer with good results. I also have and use the RCBS pocket swager and it works good also.
I loaded up twenty or so of these brass to try a reduced load for my '06 and they started splitting at the neck and shoulder junction after three firings so now I'm trying to figure out the whole annealing thing before I loose too much more brass. Good luck with your venture, this stuff is definately hardened brass.


ETA, +1 on the countersink or deburring tool removing brass fast. I bought some brass from a guy who said it was swaged and he had used a deburring tool on it and it looked more like a funnel, half the pocket walls were gone. A little bump is all it takes.

[Char-Gar]

US Military crimp in the primers on most small arms ammo. This is to keep from having a primer back out and tie of a full auto weapon. Most foreign military is crimped for the same reason.

I have an old C-H primer pocket swage I bought in 1960. It is a base with a post on it over which you slip the case. Then there is a rod you put in the primer pocket and hit it with a hammer. Sounds sorta crude and fudamental, but it has removed the crimp from thousands and thousands of 30-06 and 7.62 Nato cases.

[Beekeeper]

Peter Nap,
I have about 5000 of the military brass .
Some I converted to either 7x57 or 8x57 Mauser.
All of them have crimped primer pockets.
I have a lyman primer pocket reamer as well as a neck champher tool.
I use the reamer to ensure the pocket is the right diameter and the champher tool to ensure the crimp is removed..
Have been using them ( the brass for 40 years).
The LC54 is great brass but like Maven said you should aneal the necks if you are going to use it as it gets hardened real quick in a military rifle.

Jim

[peter nap]

Thank Guys! Couldn't find a reamer or a swage locally so I'll check Midway , etc.

I did run across an RCBS 180 gr mold.

[Echo]

It was my understanding that only NM brass was NOT crimped, and that all others WERE crimped...

[wistlepig1]

At MidSouth shooter Supply
RCBS RELOADING PRODUCTS PRIMER POCKET SWAG COMBO
Find this Item in our 2008 Master Catalog on page(s): 94
Find this Item in our 2009 Master Catalog on page(s): 94
The perfect tool for quick removal of primer-pocket crimps from military cases. Unlike reaming, the pocket swager forms a perfectly round pocket correct in dimension for American Boxer-type primers. Comes with swaging heads for large and small pockets; fits nearly all 7/8" x 14 presses with RCBS-type removable shell holders. Not for use on progressive presses.
$ 28.00

This may help, I have used one for Years. martin

[Cadillo]

I've reloaded a boatload of the stuff. if you want to get some milage out of it, do not ream the pockets. It removes metal and reduces case life. If you don't have a swager, just lightly camfer the crimps with a case mouth camfer tool and load away. Reaming material from the primer pocket walls is bad juju witn regard to case life.

Cutting the pocket depth only is another matter all together, and is recommended if accuracy is a concern. You might want to check out the catalog or website of Sinclair International. They have all the tools you can need or imagine.

[higgins]

I have seen U.S. military brass that was so lightly crimped that you needed a magnifying glass to be sure there was even a crimp there. Even on those cases the not-so-obvious crimp needed to be removed to seat primers with normal pressure.

[Lloyd Smale]

problem i run into more then anything is lake city but after i remove the crimp the primers are to loose.

[Bad Water Bill]

You might want to check the 52 brass. I am not sure what year LC went to NON corrosive primers. 1954 IIRC and after is OK as that was the year ALL ammo had to be non corrosive.

PS The carbine was always non corrosive.

[rob45]

but after i remove the crimp the primers are to loose.
I don't know if you're removing the crimp by reaming or swaging, but..

When you swage, you are not removing metal; you are displacing it, redistributing it, or whatever. That crimp has to go somewhere, but it is not being permanently removed. When swaging primer pockets, the crimp is actually being forced into the pocket.

If you're swaging and you still get loose-fitting primers, then the solutions are readily apparent.
1. The swaging button came out of spec (oversized) and should be replaced. An easier fix is to polish the button, which can very slightly reduce the size of the button and also decrease friction.
2. If your swaging button came rough from the factory (a rare occurrence, but possible), sometimes brass can build up on the head and increase the diameter. This is very rare, and the solution to it is as stated above in 1.
3. It is always possible to have an out-of-spec lot of primers. The only way around this is to either switch primers or find a way to reduce the diameter of the primer pocket.

Several years ago I got a batch of Remington primers that did not seat tight enough. The brass was pulldown, so it had never been fired (no loose pockets due to worn-out brass). The CCIs and Winchesters seated fine, but now I had an entire case of Remington primers and 5000 brass cases that did not work with them. I had my machinist make a tool that swaged metal from the top of the pocket and put it down into the bottom half of the pocket; sort of a step-down effect. This process was extremely slow, but it saved both the primers and the brass. The same concept applies if you're trying to save a batch of brass that is simply worn out from extended use (because the pockets are too large). I'm sure there are others out there who do something similar to "save their worn-out brass", but the first thing to do is find out if the pockets are too large because of repeated hot loads, or if they were simply too large from the beginning. If due to hot loads, it is considered prudent when attempting to "save" such brass that it be relegated to the "low-pressure-only pile":p

Bottom line: I will always swage any crimped brass. Unless one is using a reamer on one of the trimmers (Wilson, Forster, etc.) that keeps the case in the exact same position every time, the possibility of cutting out too much metal always exists. To me, locking every single case in a trimmer and reaming it is a lot slower than slipping the same case in a press shellholder and pulling the lever. We're only human, and the goal is to reduce our own inevitable error. The only way to speed up the reaming process is to actually hold the case by hand, and that is where the human variables (cutting too much or not enough) can surface, not to mention tired hands.;)

[shooterg]

I use the Sinclair pocket uniforming tool in a cordless drill, hold the case in a plier-type spark plug wire removal tool with the rubber coating($6 at NAPA). Watch the ball games and do a bunch during commercials. No problems seating primers snugly in M1A's and AR15's with LC brass after 5 loads(as far as I've cycled any, although I'm sure they have more loads in 'em )
Use the same wire tool with the Gracey trimmer, saves the fingers !

[plumber]

I love my Dillon super swage. One can process copious amounts of brass without finger fatigue.

[Ken O]

I use the RCBS swag, one thing that realy helps is to put a little lube on the button, I use the Imperial sizing wax. When the "up" stroke starts to grab, re-lube it.

One of these days I'll buy the Dillon Super Swag.....

[Lloyd Smale]

i use a dillon and it works great on every other type of brass i use it on but some lake citys are just loose.

[Patrick L]

For 20 years I used the Lyman reamers and they worked OK, but they can still leave "cutting lines" that will still catch on the sides of the primer cup and make things herky-jerky. This is more of an issue on progressive presses that single stage or hand priming tools. About 3 years ago I subsequently bought the RCBS swaging unit that goes on a single stage press. It works well, but is slow. Even brass that I had already reamed and loaded a few times were smoothed out nicely.

About a year ago I bit the bullet and bought a Dillon Super Swage, and I'll never look back. It is one sweet tool. The same smooth results of the RCBS tool, but much faster and much less elbow grease.

[Hip's Ax]

I have the Dillon but I have many thousands of LC cases in all calibers to deal with. It sure does make short work of swaging those primer pockets.

If I had one thousand LC cases and I did not expect to ever get any more I would get the RCBS.

I would think the cutters would be tedious for a thousand cases.

[JIMinPHX]

I just put a 3/8" chatterless 82 degree countersink tool (M.A. Ford brand) in a cordless drill & give each primer pocket a quick & gentle pass to remove the remnants of the crimp. I can do about 20 per minute that way. I get my countersinks from MSC.

[hydraulic]

I use a Schrade Old Timer pocket knife. The short clip point blade works best. It's much cheaper than other tools--my grandson gave it to me for Christmas ten years ago.