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Newtire
05-05-2006, 08:48 PM
I have about decided from reading these threads that I want to get some wc820 (n). I have a .30 carbine and a .44 mag. Was also wondering if this powder works in light rifle loads .30-30 and .30-06 as I am a little confused about that "SEE" thing as far as which powders are bad about reducing the loads with. Also...is this powder good for .410 shotgun shells or is that pushing the envelope too close for comfort? It sounds like it would be a good powder to stock up on at least for the .30 carbine & the .44 mag anyway.

felix
05-05-2006, 09:21 PM
Newtire, don't even think about it, do it! Being a double base ball powder, it will last almost forever. This powder is marginal in the larger cases, and I personally won't do it. That said, it is much safer than the other ball powders in its speed range because it has a lower ratio of deterrents applied. At least, that's how it acts (from experience only). 410 yes; all pistol maggies, yes; 30-30 maybe if loaded heavier with a light boolit; 30-06, nope. ... felix

Maven
05-05-2006, 09:58 PM
Newtire & Felix, I've written about WC 820 in various applications before, but let me summarize what I've learned. To wit, in the .357mag., use mag. primers and reduce the max. load for your lot of WC820 by no more than 10%. In rifle applications, you don't need a mag. primer, and I've obtained excellent accuracy with it and CB's in the .243Win. up to and including the 8mm Mau. Several weeks ago I used 21.5gr. WC 820 in my .30-06 with the Saeco RG-4 (195gr. bore rider) and was especially pleased with the results. Moreover, I've never had even a suggestion of SEE* with this powder, ever.

*Doesn't SEE occur with very slow powders in large cartridges with light charges, not relatively fast powders such as WC 820?

Newtire
05-05-2006, 11:56 PM
Newtire, don't even think about it, do it! Being a double base ball powder, it will last almost forever. This powder is marginal in the larger cases, and I personally won't do it. That said, it is much safer than the other ball powders in its speed range because it has a lower ratio of deterrents applied. At least, that's how it acts (from experience only). 410 yes; all pistol maggies, yes; 30-30 maybe if loaded heavier with a light boolit; 30-06, nope. ... felix
As always Felix, I will be cautious but will put this advice in the bank. I have that carbine whipped thanks to Beagle and the 30-30 H-335 load you headed me towards is a real keeper. Now, I have to see what kind of load to use in my new Ruger Deerfield. It says not to shoot cast bullets but gee...ya know...
thanks again!
Newtire

felix
05-06-2006, 12:29 AM
Maven, yes, you've said this before about 820. I have always assumed you were always shooting the gun stright on, like off of a bench. Good ES's safely indicate good powder burn characteristics. SEE conditions are prevalent when some powder type/amount cannot ignite properly. This happend once even with the proverbial Bullseye load of 2.7 grains in a 38 special with a flush wadcutter. Conclusion: fractured primer. I shoot off of a car top nowadays, with angles between +5 and -15 for the most part. My SEEs have occured mostly with mid-range ball powders at 50 percent case capacity, and always when the powder is against the boolit (assumed). However, the worst SEE I've had which almost destroyed the gun, was with H322 at 25 grains in a 308W, using the lyman 291. That is a single base stick powder as you know, but extremely fine like a medium speed ball powder. ... felix

Junior1942
05-06-2006, 08:17 AM
I've been playing with WC820(n) with the plainbase Lyman 311008 @ 116 grs in a 30-30 Model 94 Winchester.

WC820(n) 10 grs = 1350 fps; 11 grs = 1375 fps; 12 grs = 1486 fps (1 only shot for velocity with each)

I wanted to get around 1550 fps as 1600 fps is the barrel leading velocity with a non-gascheck bullet in this rifle, so next time I'll try 12.2 grs.

I ordered some of the Meister 115 gr FP .312" bullets Midway had on sale for $16.99 per 500. In the next week or two I'll post an article on www.castbullet.com about "Small Cast Bullets in 30-30."

I'll use WC820(n) powder only. I'll test (1) the 311008; (2) the Lee C309-113-F soup can both with and without gaschecks; and (3) the 115 Meister both as from the factory and sized .311" and with LLA applied.

Maven
05-06-2006, 10:30 AM
Felix, I always shoot from the benchrest position, revolvers included. With the latter, I'll elevate the muzzle prior to firing to move the powder back toward the primer especially with small charges of fast burning B'eye or Clays and even WC 820 even though it pretty much fills the .357mag. case and Ly. 358429 is seated deeply enough to almost compress it. With rifle loads, I make doubly sure that any powder that fills less than 1/2 the case (.243Win. -> 8mm Mau.) is against the primer. That isn't much of a chore since I store those loaded rounds with the primers down and tap them against my bench rug (old bath mat) to insure the powder stays there, especially with WC 820 since the charge can be as little as 14gr. (.243Win. and .30-30Win.).

felix
05-06-2006, 10:44 AM
This is what folks will have to remember, Maven, when shooting loads using a partial case fill. Maybe for us boolit folks the powder companies should begin making "donut" powders having the same density amongst all speed ranges. Paint the donuts a different color for indicating a different application. ... felix

drinks
05-06-2006, 08:48 PM
Newtire;
If you are going to gibrass/Bartlett's,remember, WC844=H335.
I am going to start trying some 80-95% loads of WC844 in .45-70 and .35 Whelen

Newtire
05-07-2006, 12:17 AM
Newtire;
If you are going to gibrass/Bartlett's,remember, WC844=H335.
I am going to start trying some 80-95% loads of WC844 in .45-70 and .35 Whelen
Thanks Drinks! I was thinking of that too. The way that stuff shoots in .30-30 makes it worth the price. Anything else it's good for? I guess .444 also only don't like much shooting those shoulder-dislocation loads. Hmmmm. maybe even a few j-loads in .243 or .30-06.