Truth about reloading Wolf cases

[ETG]

OK, I reloaded about 1000 Wolf 223 cases before I was told you couldn't reload steel cases. Last week I was reloading a bunch of 45 with 230 gn RN and for the heck of it loaded 6 Wolf steel cases. I have never had a problem with the reloads - accuracy and cycling no different from the brass cases. Just what is it about steel cases that is so bad?

[44mag1]

The steel cases will mystically and magically be worse for your firearm the second time around as they were the first. Ive reloaded both .223 and 45 without any problem. Ive thought about taking a magnet out to shooting sites to pick up all the "useless" empties.

[ETG]

LOL - my own feelings. All that steel just laying around! I just kept thinking there must be something I'm overlooking - but, reload, goes bang, bullet hits target - WT*! If it wears out the dies a little earlier, well dies are cheaper the brass these days. If there really is a reason we shouldn't be reloading these cases I wish soweone would chime in with a legitimate reason steel cases shouldn't be reloaded. I did pick up some aluminum cases last outing - hummmmm - thinking why not??????

[legend]

i have loaded the wolf steel cases all summer for our thursday night league.
i have used them in my custom LAUCK longslide.
they work fine,i load to 940 fps with H&g 68 clones,225 roundnose lead,and never lost a case all summer.

i have listened to people say not to use them...i for one will continue.

thank you

[richbug]

I have some 1940's and 50's vintage US made steel 45 acp cases mixed in with my brass. I have loaded them a bunch. Had some 30 carbine ones as well. No issues with either.

If the commie 7.62x39 was boxer primed I'd load it as well.

[NickSS]

+1 for what legend said. I have loaded Wolf steel 45 acp cases and they work fine. I feel no more loading force when sizing them as I do with brass cases. Years ago I had and reloaded steel US made cases that were 1943 vintage and were washed with zinc. They worked fine to and outlasted brass cases by about double the number of reloads I got per case. I would reload "non-Reloadable steel berdan primed cases if I could find berdan primers but I have trouble lately finding Boxer primers.

[ETG]

Guess I shouldn't spread this around or all those steel cases will disappear :grin:

[StarMetal]

First the 45 acp doesn't develop nearly the pressure of a 5.56 or 7.62x39. Second the one poster was right about the coating on the casings when they are new. I believe there have been two so far. One was lacquer and the other some form of plastic. The purpose was twofold. One to keep the casings from rusting and the other to let them feed into the chamber easier. Once fired most of this burns off. So shooting steel rifle cases in your rifles will eventually do some harm to the chambers especially semi auto rifles.

Joe

[dualsport]

I reload Wolf cases for my 'throaway' loads. Once in a while it's nice to shoot a semi auto and not worry about finding all the cases. I figure one reload is enough, although they may hold up to more than that for all I know, but they do tend to rust.

[mdi]

I have been under the impression that reloading steel cases is possible, the problem is steel becomes brittle much faster than brass so case separation and split mouths become a hazard after one or two reloadings. I'm pretty sure the steel cases are much softer than the steel of the barrel (and reloading dies) so excessive chamber wear would be a moot point...

[OutHuntn84]

how many times can you reload the steel cases before they start to split crack bulge ect.?

[azrednek]

In the 70's I purchased a thousand US GI 45 rounds in steel cases. I reloaded them all numerous times until I wore out the mirror finish on my steel C-H brand sizing die. I tossed the cases after having problems with stuck cases in my sizing die. Possible the steel cases wont be so hard on carbide sizing dies.

[trickyasafox]

I've done it with the 223- not much 45 wolf shot by me so I haven't tried that. I got a few loadings out of it before I lost my nerve. worked fine. I had to chamfer the neck a little more than brass or it shaved the bullets.

[Jim]

Reloaded steel pistol & rifle cases several times over. Mostly looking for the failure point. After a few times, kinda' quit with it.
All things considered, I'd hafta say the evidence & testimony far outweighs the advice against it.

[35remington]

The problem with the Wolf 45 ACP cases is the cut for the extractor groove in the case is too small, and is hard on extractors as it tends to "lever" them open to fit the too small groove.

These tend to screw up the extractor tension after awhile, necessitating replacement.

Compare the extractor groove cut to a regular brass case. The smaller size means potential problems. In 45 ACP, it isn't what they're made of, it's the execution of the extractor groove cut that's the problem.

[dogbert41]

I didn't realize that about the extractor groove. I always "heard" steel was tough on extractors. I never had an extractor failure yet on pistol or rifle. Knock on wood. I don't worry too much about part failures anyway. They are machines. They break.

As for steel being tough on chambers, it's a softer steel than what any chamber is made from, and if you have an AR that has a chrome chamber, forget about it.

I reload the steel. I use those reloads as range brass I don't "have" to pick up. I've found that in reloading steel multiple times, the primer pockets get enlarged before case neck cracks or any other failures. I don't like the trimming though, because I KNOW it dulls the blades quicker than brass.

[smokepole]

I found some 40 S&W Wolf cases at the range the other day and thought I would give them a try. The amount of pressure needed to size the cases is about double compared to brass. I'm using a set of Lee dies (carbide). I intend to load them w/Lee 175 TC cast and 5 grs. of Unique. Will let you know how it works out.

Mike S.

[Jack Stanley]

It's good to hear the .223 stuff works good the second time around . Three guys I know have tried to use Wolf factory ammo in the AR and all of them had problems with the ammo .

Jack

[Rocky Raab]

I wouldn't even use that stuff NEW, much less try to reload it. But, to each his own.

[lavenatti]

I've reloaded the 7.62x39 berdan primed stuff. I only reload it once, it's easy enough to find plenty of it so why bother a second time and risk split necks?

I wipe the lanolin I use to resize off with a rag but I do a lousy job of wiping it all off so it helps prevent rust if I don't shoot the ammo right away. The laquer the Russians coat the casses with seems to get real thin and disappear in spots after a trip through the tumbler.

[JKH]

steel is awesome! Loads just as easy as brass and performs as well, dont turn your nose up at it when there's a shortage! I scrounge and save every piece of loadable brass I find on the range ;^ )

I have been reloading CCI Blazer aluminum .45acp cases the past year or so, for some reason they have a small pistol primer opposed to berdan like other Blazer cases. I have managed 4 reloads before the cases split, AND, the only time they have split was during the mouth belling operation, NOT when firing. I dont believe # of times loaded is a factor as I have had cases split the very first time, if they make it through belling then they are good to go and are great when you want to blast away and not feel guilty about picking it up :^ )

[Rangefinder]

One thing about using the wolf cases---berdan primer pockets tend to be a little on the shallow side. But pistol primers seat flush and run like champs!

[mdi]

One thing about using the wolf cases---berdan primer pockets tend to be a little on the shallow side. But pistol primers seat flush and run like champs!

Are you saying you use Boxer small pistol primers in Berdan rifle cartridges?

[Rangefinder]

Are you saying you use Boxer small pistol primers in Berdan rifle cartridges?

I have, but I should probably clarify how it works. Those who've reloaded berdan know 2 things: they're a pain in the butt to find, and they're just a touch larger in diameter. What I've done in the past is punch through the berdan anvil in the case--this removes the anvil and creates a center flash hole. Then I polished the lacquer out enough to see clean steel. THEN the pain in the butt really starts. Heat the case with a torch and tin the pocket with silver solder and air cool it (it takes VERY little to line the pocket--don't go overboard). Then just touch it up and square it with a pocket reamer and you've effectively reduced the pocket to take box primers. It's a lot to go through for a conversion, but it was a successful experiment based on the idea that reloadable brass could become really tough to come by. I've only used reduced loads on these, but everything worked with no signs of primers backing out or pressure issues.

[JKH]

rangefinder,

very interesting method, I might have to try that some time.
I ran across a thread where an individual used Lok-Tite to "seal" boxer primers in berdan pockets, he was reloading Wolf 7.62x39 cases which were placed in a loading block primer pocket up, the primers wer set in place & then he placed barely a drop of lok-tite on it and spread it around with a pin & then soaked up the excess with a tissue, etc. The important thing is to leave these undisturbed at least overnight. Too much lok-tite & moving them to soon can allow un-set liquid to soak up into the priming compound and kill it. He said once he figured that out it never happened again after many thousands of reloads.
there are many ways to go about this & I hope to see more, tinning the pocket is a fantastic idea that should last the life of the case but if not is easily redone, bravo rangefinder!
Jeff

[JKH]

super cheap reloads - Wolf .223 steel case, 18.5grns AA2230, CCI primer & LEE BATOR boolit cast from wheelweights using aluminum gas checks I made on FC II tool.

The case was free range scarfings, the powder is from an 8lb jug that cost me about $80 with shipping & hazmat, the primers I bought at a yardsale 10 or so years ago (500 or so for $5) & they wer about 15yrs old then (just using the last 100 & all have fired), I paid $10 for 5 gallon buckets of wheelweights & the gas checks I make can't be done any cheaper unless I use pop cans (no thanks!). So, I figure my Wolf reloads run between 1 and 2 cents each, awesome! Makes an old tight wads heart all warm & fuzzy ;^ )

[pakmc]

My .45's are CZ 97's. and a witness .45. I reloaded a box of steel(wolf), and box of nickle plated brass, and a box of range brass all using the same bullet and powder.all using a lead 230gr. lee bullet. I shot them all at 10 yards. I could see no difference in group sizes with any load. they all shot to the same point of aim. I haven't tried to see how many loading I could get with the steel bases. but if they're clean and new. I'll pick them up and reload them. "O" the only trouble I've ever had with the CZ 97's was the gun I normally shoot I had to drill out the firing pin hole. the primers crushed the hole and the firing pin got stuck . The gun smith who drilled out the hole said that 1911's have to have this done every once in a while too. This is the first time it's ever happened to me.

[TheGrimReaper]

Is the Wolf 30 Carbine steel cases boxer or berdan primed?

[Grapeshot]

I have found that when reloading steel .45ACP cases, it is best to use case lube, like Imperial Sizing Wax, to lube the cases even if you use carbide dies. This cuts down on wear and tear on your dies.

Other than that, I don't hesitate to reload any of the boxer primed steel .45 ACP cases I find.

[Grapeshot]

steel is awesome! Loads just as easy as brass and performs as well, dont turn your nose up at it when there's a shortage! I scrounge and save every piece of loadable brass I find on the range ;^ )

I have been reloading CCI Blazer aluminum .45acp cases the past year or so, for some reason they have a small pistol primer opposed to berdan like other Blazer cases. I have managed 4 reloads before the cases split, AND, the only time they have split was during the mouth belling operation, NOT when firing. I dont believe # of times loaded is a factor as I have had cases split the very first time, if they make it through belling then they are good to go and are great when you want to blast away and not feel guilty about picking it up :^ )

13 years ago I was doing the same thing with .45 Colt cases using Lg Pistol Primers after punching out the anvil, and made the mistake of telling CCI about it. Right after I got a letter saying it was not wise to reload the Blazer Aluminum cases, they changed the size of the primers in their cases.

[JKH]

Grapeshot,

So, they used a berdan type primer taht was the same size as a boxer? I wonder if that is what they do with the other cases that are berdan, it would make sense as all they would have to do is make a run of standard primers and omit the final step of inserting the anvil.

The .45ACP cases I keep finding are straight boxer small pistol, I'm not sure if they are current roduction or maybe whoever is shooting them has had a case stashed away for a number of years, they all are fresh though.

I have 2 boxes loaded right now just for the fun of it, I have a big stockpile of brass cases so its not imperative I do this, it was a fun experiment 'cause you never kow what the future holds! One of these days while there's still a foot or two of snow on the ground I'll blast these off out back and forget they ever existed, now brass cases? thats another story, I'll dig to China through the snow to save one case if need be! ;^ )

Jeff

[Grapeshot]

Grapeshot,

So, they used a berdan type primer taht was the same size as a boxer? I wonder if that is what they do with the other cases that are berdan, it would make sense as all they would have to do is make a run of standard primers and omit the final step of inserting the anvil.
Jeff

CCI was using a Berdan Primer that was the same diameter as a regular Large Pistol Primer. I initially used hydraulic pressure to remove the spent primer until I got my hands on an RCBS Berdan decapping Tool. After I removed the primer I would run the case into a primer pocket shaging tool and smash the anvil flat, leaving two small flashholes that worked as well as any single hole. I found that punching a single hole with a decapping pin left a very large flash hole that could send pressures higher than needed. The aluminum cases were usually good for only one or two reloadings before the mouths began to show cracks.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

I've got approx. 500 Wolf steel .223 cases that are boxer primed from the factory. I've loaded them at least a half dozen times with no neck splits or other problems. They size as easy as brass cases and I use water diluted Lee Lube to lube the case and inside the neck mouth. After sizing I wipe the case with an old dish towel and they stay very smooth and slick like they have been waxed. These boxer primed cases were purchased from Midway a couple of years ago and had the 55 gr. FMJ bullet in them. I was surprised to find they were boxer primed and immediately tried reloading them and found no issues or problems. Up to that point I had always heard you cannot reload steel cases. My own experience suggests otherwise. I see others have even been successful with the Berdan primed steel cases. I have a terrible personality flaw in that I am determined to do things people tell me I "can not" do.
:wink:

Mike

[Freischütz]

I picked up 24 Wolf 45 ACP cases and reloaded them to see how they'd do. I found:
1. Half had split by the fifth reloading.
2. With each reloading they became harder to extract from my S&W revolver. When I stopped (6th reloading) I had to smartly tap the crane against the bench top to move them.

[John Traveler]

Reloading US Military EC 43 headstamped steel cases resulted in the following:

1. TWO broken M1911A1 extractors within a few dozen rounds. The extractor grooves are indeed a different profile than brass .45 ACP cases and are hard on pistol extractors.

2. Firing steel cased .45 ACP in M1917 revolvers without half moon clips will result in peening of chamber mouths where the case mouth meets cylinder chamber. This will eventually give extraction or chambering problems.

US Military experience with steel-cased ammunition in .30 US M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, .30-06, and .50 BMG was generally satisfactory. In the machine gun belt-linked calibers, rusting of cases where the chromate finish was scratched through by the belt links was fairly common.

[justashooter]

problem with steel in autoloaders is that the moment of expansion for steel is longer than same for brass. phil sharpe discusses this issue in reference to experiments in making steel case cartridges for 30 US machine guns. over a billion rounds were made for experimental purposes in the 2nd ww, and were scrapped without prejudice.

germans used steel for everything other than aircraft machine guns in the final days.

[jim147]

I've reloaded the Wolf 45 ACP without any problems. My blazer aluminum is used for special low pressure loads.

I've saved all of my cases, no matter what they are made of or what primer they take, over the years. You never know what tomorrow holds.

jim

[Nuke Boy]

I don't worry about the steel case. I pick up all the 45acp I see. But the factory copper washed steel jacketed bullet I don't like at all. I like to load it once and let them FLY!