Laser Cast 32-20 crimping problem

[Shane]

Hoping for some advice with my 32-20 model 25 Remington.

I purchased some laser cast 115 / 313 / 32-20 boolets and cannot crimp them with my seat die. I am using Starline cases, with RCBS Cowboy dies. The crimp die is not able to crimp into the crimp grove far enough to get a grip on the bullet. The diameter in front of the crimp groove is 0.300"

I was wondering if the Lee factory crimp die will do this?

Thanks guys.

[Leftoverdj]

How much crimp do you need on a .32-20, anyway?

[Shane]

It has to be good or the bullet will push back in the case in the mag. tube.

[Leftoverdj]

If the bullet will push back in the case in the mag tube, you don't have enough neck tension. Heavy recoiling stuff you need to crimp, but you shouldn't need it on something as mild as a .32-20.

Have you actually experienced bullets being pushed back, or have you just been told that ammo to go in a tube magazine must be crimped?

It's not something I would worry about until I saw it myself in my own rifle.

[35remington]

If at all possible, I'd roll crimp in preference to a LFC when crimping lead bullets, especially if the crimp groove is at all deep.

The factory crimp in the Lee die doesn't iron out on firing. This may not harm accuracy, but then again it may not help, either. Picture the leading edge of the bearing surface getting swaged down by the undersized neck in the crimp area. The bullet starts to move before the pressure ramps up, as the primer impulse kicks the bullet into motion before the powder fully lights.

Do you seat and crimp in separate steps? If not, try doing so. How's the Starline brass compare in overall length to the Remington and Winchester variety? I hear it's somewhat shorter, which could be part of the problem.

[35remington]

I got out some of my Starline 32-20 brass and came up with an average length of about 1.280." Given that the trim to length of the 32-20 is around 1.305", and that Remington and Winchester brass is noticeably longer than the Starline brass, this may explain part of your problem.

Does the shellholder contact the die before you get the crimp turned down to what you want? Normally, more crimp is obtained by adjusting the die further down into the press threads.

[Bret4207]

35 gives you some real good info, and I'd listen to DJ too. 32-20 brass tends to grow strangely- a lot of it seems to shrink rather than grow, and they don't all follow suit at that. Trim your brass to uniform length, check for shellholder interference and see how things fit from there. Even a mild crimp will hold the 32-20 boolits from jumping crimp.

[243winxb]

The diameter in front of the crimp groove is 0.300" What is the loaded rounds neck diameter when measured at the mouth and closer to the base of the bullet? With a .313" bullet, the neck should measure close to .327" The rifle type Lee FCD should work. When crimping with the RCBS die, you may want to seat the bullets first then crimp in a separate operation as the case neck walls are thin and you dont want to bulge/crush the case shoulder. Rcbs instruction are here, page 9. http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/CowboyDiesInstructions.pdf

[Cherokee]

I load lots of 32-20 for LA rifles and SA pistols. Crimp in a separate step and run your die down more for the Starline brass. I like the Redding profile crimp die.

[Shane]

I do not have a lot of experience with this cartridge, but was using the Mister 32 H&R 94gr .312 bullet with no problems getting a nice crimp, but the crimp grove was not positioned so far forward on the bullet as the Laser cast one.

The shell holder does not contact the die before I have all the crimp the die will give, but this will not roll the case far enough to prevent me from pushing the bullet into the case with firm hand pressure.

The neck tension seems good.
Expander is .3105
Outside of case measures .3265 with bullet seated.

Bullet is .3135 at start of crimp grove, and .300 at the forward part. The diameter at the bottom of the crimp grove is .285. If the crimp grove was on the parallel part of the bullet I would have no problem but it is way forward where the bullet is tapering fast. Will the Redding crimp die handle this type of crimp?

The crimp I am getting now is doing nothing at all I only have the neck tension holding the bullet. Is it enough; not sure but I do not want any problems when the mag. tube is full, I should be able to put a light effective crimp on the bullet.

Thanks for all the assistance. I may give Laser cast a call there is a 1-800 # on the box.

[rickster]

I have run quite a few Lasercast 32-20s through a Mo 25. I use Lee dies and roll crimp lightly. IIRC (it has been a while) the original Lee expander was rough, and once I polished it down, it was too small. So I had to make one on the lathe.

I have used the Lee factory crimp, but didnt like the way it mashed the necks. I now only use it when I need to force a crimp on a bullet that doesnt have a cannelure. I did read in an old thread that if you bevel the opening at the end of the part of the die that does the crimping (using a triangular Dremel stone), it will leave the case mouth slightly beveled after firing, which makes reloading easier. Sounds like a good idea, but I havent tried it yet.

Regarding bullets pushing back. I havent had a problem with that in my Mo 25 when using a light crimp.

I had the opposite problem when using Hornady dies bought used off Ebay. The expander was for .308 and I ruined a batch of cases before I figured out what the problem was. Dont know if it came that way from the factory, or the previous owner did it. I made a new expander in the lathe.

ETA: I use Winchester, Remington and Starline cases and havent had a problem with the dies I use.

[243winxb]

I have all the crimp the die will give, but this will not roll the case far enough to prevent me from pushing the bullet into the case with firm hand pressure.
The neck tension seems good.
Expander is .3105 It can't be both?? Seat a bullet without crimping. Can you push it in with hand pressure? If not, then you are crimping to much. Its possible to loosen the tension the case has on the bullet by over crimping. This would happen right before you bulge the shoulder. Thats my guess without seeing it.

[44man]

COWBOY dies????? BAH! What is that all about? Good info posted but why do you need special dies for 200 fps and zero recoil?
I have a slingshot for sale----CHEAP. [smilie=l:
And then, Laser Cast to boot, no explanation needed.

[35remington]

"The shell holder does not contact the die before I have all the crimp the die will give, but this will not roll the case far enough to prevent me from pushing the bullet into the case with firm hand pressure.

The neck tension seems good."

I agree with the post above. And things are backwards in terms of getting it right. The case had better hold the bullet tightly without the crimp, or you've got a badly reloaded cartridge. It's not the crimp that's the problem here, and you're asking the crimp to do something it cannot do without adequate neck tension, which is the key to keeping the bullet in place.

If you can push the bullet into the case with your fingers before you crimp it, neck tension isn't good.......it sucks! If neck tension is adequate, there's less for the crimp to do because the case neck properly grips the bullet. The crimp is only a backup to case neck tension and nothing more. If neck tension is poor, no amount of crimping will make up for the looseness of the bullet, and ballistic consistency with suffer greatly. A bullet with a loose fit in the case neck will give very high variations in velocity with many powders and is improper reloading practice. In cold weather, you may risk squibs with the slower powders, or 300-400 fps velocity variations.

Tighten up that bullet/case fit, and then worry about the crimp. The crimp is only the suspenders in the "belt and suspenders" approach to bullet integrity in the case. Of the two, a tight bullet/caseneck fit is far more important than a crimp.

[wallenba]

I second the Redding Profile die, Use them on what I have that they make them for.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=127329