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jdgabbard
11-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Ok guys. I'm working up a load for the 9mm with them. Only one thing. Never have used Unique n the 9mm before. So I'm starting off with 4.6gr (starting data in the Lyman manual is 4.3gr) and I immediately look and notice that if the boolit doesn't compress the charge it's gonna be seated right on top of it. Now it wouldn't be much compression if any, but is this normal???

jdgabbard
11-02-2009, 04:04 PM
Just for the record I did double check the charge weight, and I'm using mixed military brass

Crash_Corrigan
11-02-2009, 04:40 PM
What gun are you using? I never worry about my Ruger BH Convertible Cylinder but if I was messing around with a unknown load in a Browning HP or another valuable shooting iron I would tend to go lower.

How about making up three or four rounds at 4.0 gr of Unique and see what FPS you are getting and checking the brass. If good then up the ante a mite at a time.
COL is kinda important in 9MM's. The case is so small that a small difference in length can really cause a spike in pressure.

Secondly the dia of the boolit is very important. My Browning HP did not do well on .356 sized boolits. It likes them at .3575 or .358. At the smaller diameter I was getting blowback into the chamber and a very dirty gun within 30 rounds fired. Additionally I got lousy accuracy and my chronometer was all over the place. Sooty casings were normal with this loading.

Also military brass is smaller inside and therefor higher pressure than normal brass. Another reason to go low and slow.

As soon as I fattened the boolit I got much better accuracy and a clean and functioning weapon.

jdgabbard
11-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Well, it'll be shot out of a Ruger PC-9 carbine. Boolits sized to .356.

Houndog
11-02-2009, 07:38 PM
I've shot a bunch of that combination! I use 5.0 GR Unique under that boolet in Winchester cases with Wolf SP primers. It's about as hot as I want to go but it's extremely accurate in my Smith Sigma.

jdgabbard
11-02-2009, 10:36 PM
Well, I'm not too worried, as it is a rifle. But just to be sure it's not too abnormal for it to be that little space left in the cartridge.

beagle
11-03-2009, 10:14 AM
In the High Power......I'm using a 356402 with 3.7 grains of Unique for a velocity of 1026 average. This is with a .3575" bullet seated 1.1" OAL. Gives me good accuracy,/beagle

jdgabbard
11-03-2009, 12:08 PM
Wow, it sounds like I am way over according to beagle.

beagle
11-03-2009, 01:09 PM
You may not be too high. I'm using a pretty good sized diameter and that will drive the pressure/velocity up some. With a .356" bullet, I'd expect it to be lower and slower.

And, I'm only shooting for a load which will give me reliable functioning and accuracy.

In a carbine which has probably a more generous chamber, it might be all right.

I'm kinda skeptical about pushing 9mm loads as I've opened a couple hundred primer pockets one time with some Red Dot loads in my Blackhawk convertible./beagle


Wow, it sounds like I am way over according to beagle.

jlucht01
11-03-2009, 01:56 PM
In the High Power......I'm using a 356402 with 3.7 grains of Unique for a velocity of 1026 average. This is with a .3575" bullet seated 1.1" OAL. Gives me good accuracy,/beagle

Very Similar setup... .3569 boolit seated to 1.09 with 3.8gr Unique....

jdgabbard
11-03-2009, 07:28 PM
So, should I pull the boolits and start over with 4.0? I'm kinda lost here as I've never loaded the 9mm with either the 402 or unique.

beagle
11-03-2009, 07:39 PM
If that's a book load and you've got the seating depth (OAL) right, try a couple and look at the primer/bases. That should tell you. Might help if you have a chronograph too if you have one or can borrow a buddy's to see what they're clocking.

You're shooting them in that carbine it it may take a stouter load than a High Power.

Got a acquaintence that shoots the 356402 in a Swedish K with them sized .456". Don't know what load he's using but he says they shoot and feed fine but the lube smoke on rock and roll is bothersome./beagle

azjohn
11-03-2009, 11:52 PM
I have experienced the same thing using unique.Fills the case pretty good. I have loaded up to 155gr bullet ( lyman 358156 hp) at 3.3 grs of powder; and using a cci 550 primer. I am shootin these out of a S&W model 439. Starting load is listed at 3.5 but I started lower due to the mag primer. In the lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd edition the load is listed as you state 4.3 to 5.3 grs of powder. A 4 inch universal receiver was used for those loads. I also have another lyman manual that lists the powder charge at 4.4 to 6.0 for the same bullet. In these loads a model 39 smith with a four inch barrel was used. HTH John

HeavyMetal
11-04-2009, 12:14 AM
Bear in mind that 9mm case capacity can vary as much as 20% from different brands of case's!

Loading a bunch of "big" capicity cases maybe OK until you hit the case that has 20% less space in it and then things could get interesting!

After reading Ken Waters 9mm update years ago I stared sorting brass for the 9mm by head stamp and overall length.

I think you'll find most 9mm cases are a bit short to boot!

fredj338
11-04-2009, 12:55 AM
Wow, it sounds like I am way over according to beagle.

Not at all. I use 5gr under a 122grLTC (SAeco) for 1205fps in my BHP. Lyman #49 says 5gr is max w/ the #356242 @ just under 1200fps & 32.8K. Depending on your OAL, you should be fine.
As noted, Unique fills the samll 9mm case pretty well, so slight compression is normal.

I'm kinda skeptical about pushing 9mm loads as I've opened a couple hundred primer pockets one time with some Red Dot loads in my Blackhawk convertible./beagle
I dont' doubt it. RD is pretty fast & you can get into +P pretty quick. Unique & WSF work really well in the 9mm right into the +P range.

jdgabbard
11-04-2009, 06:19 AM
Wow, I was unaware of the high variance in case capacity. I've always shot mixed brass, but do try and sort the mil brass from the commercial.

beagle
11-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Not a thing wrong with mil brass. It's good stuff once you get the primer pockets swaged but they do tend to run to varying degrees of thicknesses from manufacturer to manufacturer. I normally save these for my non-range shooting like off the tractor where I'll never recover them.

From my experiences, commercial FC and Speer brass tend to have the largest case capacity.

Red Dot's pretty fast for the 9mm but with the right load works well in the HPs. The pockets I opened were with a load that was well under max in the Lyman handbook both as to weight and also was within the prescribed OAL for the 356402 and it was Winchester brass and small pistol primers. Should have been alright.

That's why I'm real cautious about loading 9mm ammo./beagle

lwknight
11-04-2009, 08:40 PM
I found unique too fluffy to get a good load in 9mm `124 grain boolits. I had to use nearly 5.0 grains to get up to velocity to cycle my uger P-95 which hates light loads.
I think unique would be a great powder with 147 grain boolits.
5 grains took all my case capacity so I went bach to WSF at 5.4 grains for light loads and 6.6 grains for zombie stoppers. btw the WSF needs full OAL 1.145 which will fit any 9mm mag.