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View Full Version : 45/90 - new chamber 3031



MGySgt
04-22-2005, 07:12 PM
As some are aware, I recently received my Repro 45/90 back from the shop and have been playing to see if it needed a new barrel or not. The bore is way over sized for a 45 .459+

IMR 4198 shot ok, really good enough and that is what I had on hand to try.

Got some IMR 3031 in and started a load with it. Well - I think I have a keeper.

45/90 - Mountain Mold 430gr GC sized .460+, 41.5 grains of IMR 3031, CCI primer, dacron filler. Estimated velocity by Quick load - 1522.

Range - 67 yards. Pic states 41.0 but the load is 41.5, 5 round group

Drew

BLTsandwedge1
04-22-2005, 08:20 PM
That'll do......

9.3X62AL
04-22-2005, 09:28 PM
Oh, hell yeah Drew! Keeper for sure.

wills
04-22-2005, 09:35 PM
How much 3031 would you use with a 500 or 530 grain bullet?

MGySgt
04-22-2005, 09:52 PM
Wills - Don't know - I used QuickLoad to come up with my starting load. This is one grain over what it gave me to start with.

I had worked up a load with IMR 4198 that I used as a control load for chamber pressure to match it to.

There are some others on this board that have worked up loads for the 45/90 with different bullets that may be able to tell you that.

I keep coming back to 3031 for my loads in 45/70's as it is usually the most accurate and highest velocity, so I just had to try it in the 45/90 too. I sure am pleased so far.

Drew

Bass Ackward
04-23-2005, 07:18 AM
Wills - Don't know - I used QuickLoad to come up with my starting load. This is one grain over what it gave me to start with.

I keep coming back to 3031 for my loads in 45/70's as it is usually the most accurate and highest velocity, so I just had to try it in the 45/90 too.

I sure am pleased so far.

Drew

Drew,

I am a little confused. I get the part that you are happy. Is it with Quickload or the rifle? :)

beagle
04-23-2005, 10:13 AM
Looks like a good shooting load.

I'm really happy with 3031 in the .45/70. Always shoots good.

It would be interesting to see what that .45/90 would do with some of the milsurp 4198 they were selling a couple of years back. The lot I have has a burn rate pretty close to 3031.

Don't guess any of that is still avaiable.

I wouldn't do NOTHIN' to that barrel except shoot the hell out of it./beagle

MGySgt
04-23-2005, 01:03 PM
Drew,

I am a little confused. I get the part that you are happy. Is it with Quickload or the rifle? :)

Both - The starting load for IMR 4198 in the 48th edition of Lymans reloading handbook is way over what I found shot best. 40 grains seems to be thier starting load for all their cast - I am shooting 31.5 and the recoil is stiff, I don't even want to think what it would be like at 40+.
The 'Book' didn't even list 3031. I feel the cost of QuickLoad was worth it if just for this rifle. I would have been playing around at too high of a chamber pressure and probably nmot get anything I thought would be worth it.

I really did not expect to get that good of a group, tried again today and not as good, not bad, but not one ragged hole either.

I tried 42.0 of 3031 also, and it shot as well as the 41.5 group today - Still around MOA or slightly better. 2 or 3 overlapping and the others slightly out of the group.

I know I am not capible of repeating that group at will, but with 5 rounds in the one shown, I know if a shot is out of the group or group is large, it is not the load or the gun.

Now I need to load about 20 of them and shoot 2 or 3 at a time and then wait awhile and shoot the next set. Just to see what trhe overall group is. I will set the sights high so it doewsn't chew up my aiming point.

I did notice today at the end of the 10 rounds (2 - 5 round groups) I wasn't holding as tight or seeing the sights as well.

By the way there are some people here that have been very supportive of this eveloution I have been going through with this Sharps and I would like to thank them all.

Drew

Buckshot
04-24-2005, 12:53 AM
..............So far as I'm concerned IMR3031 is THE power powder in the 45-70. In strong actions it's the powder that delivers the mostest at realistic pressures. In my 45-90 it seems that moving one number slower does the same thing. That is, in both cartridges these powders were for full power efforts.

In both these cartridges, the powder used for reduced loads the most, has been without exception H4198. In the 45-70 it's 28.0grs with a 405 and in the 45-90 it's 32.0grs. Both with dacron. The next has been Unique and 2400 in no special order and mainly to give my supply of 4198 a rest :grin: and normally with a 300gr boolit.

..................Buckshot

MGySgt
04-24-2005, 09:16 PM
Buckshot - One number slower then IMR 3031? What is it? AA2230 or H335. or something else. Haven't looked at those yet.

Now your going to make me buy a new mold from Dan at MM in the 300 gr range, Just to find something else to shoot! I don't think Lyman, RCBS or Lee has anything in the .460 range that I need (grove is 459+)

This Sharps is getting adictive!

Drew

BOOM BOOM
04-24-2005, 10:16 PM
HI,
THAT 'S A GREAT GROUP! I wish I could get even close to that w/ my .45-110.

Buckshot
04-25-2005, 12:13 AM
Buckshot - One number slower then IMR 3031? What is it? AA2230 or H335. or something else. Haven't looked at those yet.

Now your going to make me buy a new mold from Dan at MM in the 300 gr range, Just to find something else to shoot! I don't think Lyman, RCBS or Lee has anything in the .460 range that I need (grove is 459+)

This Sharps is getting adictive!

Drew

.............I'm kind of a fuddy dudy when it comes to powder. I know IMR and everything else kind of revolves around that. A number slower then IMR3031 means IMR4895 to me :rolleyes: There are so many powders these days there are probably 10 between those 2. I guess you could also go to IMR4064. I have used all three in almost full, to full case scenarios depending upon which rifle they're to be used in.

RCBS makes a very excellent 300 gr FN, but it does take a GC. From memory mine do drop larger then .459", but moulds can vary as you know. However I have always had good luck with RCBS dropping a useably sized boolit.

................Buckshot

9.3X62AL
04-25-2005, 01:30 AM
The former fine accuracy my Ruger #1 x 45-70 once demonstrated went south a few months ago, and I noted that boolits cast in both the Lee 405 PB and RCBS 300 FNGC were a bit undersized. After some research, development, strong talk, and deleted expletives I think I've isolated the diameter problem to the "mystery metal" I cast these lots of boolits from--some sort of wheelweight amalgam that I should have used in pistol castings instead of rifles. After NCBS, I'm going to re-cast some known Taracorp into 45 rifle chow. The offending boolits were re-incarnated into 38 Special food.

My rifle REQUIRES .459" boolits, and the .457" castings I was using were poetic as hell downrange with loads of prior known quality. Alloy causing an undersized situation to develop made a fine-shooting rifle into a shotgun, and I was about to have Dan carve me out a good mold for this rifle. I still might, but will try the alloy fix first--either soften WW to allow boolits to bump up, or harden it to increase diameter. Use of dacron underneath the 300 grainers re-tightened the groups the other day, too.

IMR-3031, eh? Never tried it in the 45-70.......interesting. Once I get the molds acting right, that might be a good fuel to test-drive.

KCSO
04-25-2005, 10:40 AM
It was somewhat interesting that you write that .459+ is WAY OVERSIZE for a 45-90. Having measured a few bores in this caliber in original rifles I would say yours is average to on the tight side. An 1885 made in 1900 went 460 and I had an 1886 lever that went a full 461. It is not uncommon for a trapdoor to go to 463. With Soft bullets and black powder it was not unusual at all to shoot a 458 bullet in these bores and get excellent accuracy. With smokless that is sometimes not the story, but you seem to have it licked. I personaly have had 45-90 and 45-110, but consider tham more of a black powder round than a smokless round as I can stuff all the smokelss I can stand in a 45-70 case. My last 45-90 a much re worked Pedratti Sharps would throw 5 shots into 8" at 300 yards with the ladder sight. I always liked the Gould Express bullet in the 45-90 and you might want to try that.

Buckshot
04-25-2005, 08:39 PM
.......KSCO, it's a IAB repro Sharps. I have one just like it. We've both had ours rechambered from 45-70 to 45-90 to defeat the liability "Long Throated" fiasco.

...........Buckshot

MGySgt
04-25-2005, 09:58 PM
KCSO - Buckshot is right on. It started as 45/70 and has a 1 in 19 or 20 twist (always have trouble getting it just right, I guess I am not holding my mouth right or something) anyway Most 45/70's come in at about .457 or smaller (at least my 4 do).

Buckshot - I plugged 4895 into QuickLoad and to get the same chamber pressure I loose about 50 FPS and effeciency in burn rate (42.5 grains for IMR 4895). The accuracy may be there, but....

I have to try some H4198SC that I have on hand. It shoot the same (accuracy wise) as 3031 in my 1895 Microgrove with condom bullets. Just haven't tried it yet.

As Buckshot and Beagle have stated IMR 3031 seems to be the best for 45/70 and it appears as if it might be also be one of the top choices for the 45/90, at least so far it is for mine.

Still playing with the IAB 45/90, fired 10 rounds tonight and have a bad headache. I think I may have shot too much in the last few days. Going to give it a rest for a few days, Rain is moving in anyway. Time to cast some more.

I was thinking of having Dan make me up a 300 grain dropping at 461+ with a wide front driving band and a small FP 60% or smaller (it still has a long throat).

Some one here talked me out of going 500 - 550 bullet, I sure am glad they did, this 430 is all I want to handle right now.

Maybe I will start playing with a lighter kicking gun, like my Ruger #1 with full bore 45/70's!!!!!!!

Drew

KCSO
04-26-2005, 01:43 PM
I have had to rechamber a couple of these for the same reason. Mine were Pedratti and the twist measured an actual 1-22. I am currently working up a load for an original Sharps in 45- 2.10 that belongs to a friend. It has the long chamber and is probably made for 45-80 Sharps on the 2 1/10th case. I am using paper patch and seating them with just 1/4" of the bullet in the case. I have to limit my shooting of the big ones to 5 or 10 rounds every couple of days as the recoil is hard on my bad shoulder. This is why I stick to black powder so much. In the 45-90 wiht smokeless my best loads were with IMR4198 and IMR3031, but I was just duplicating Black velocity for when i was too lazy to clean up properly. For all the problems I had with the IAB/Pedratti when I got them sliked up they shot like a house afire. I made 4 out of 5 on a 6 foot gong at 900 yards with one shooting from x sticks.