What to do next?

[vinnyg]

I’m not looking to whip a dead horse here but I’m not sure what to do next.
I like the learning curve but want to resolve my loading issue.


I’m getting lead build up at the forcing cone and beyond filling between the land groves.
The cast boolits are about 12 BHN and I’m shooting them out of a 357 snub revolver using 4 grains of unique with .357 cases and SPM Primers. The bore slugged at .356 and the cylinder throat measures .358 so I have sized them at .358. Also I had tried sizing them at .357 with the same results. I think that either the boolit doesn’t fit right or is under powered but not sure?

I did get really good groups the other day with 4 grains Unique but the leading is bothering me.

Question
I have 2400 and H110 powder should I load heavier? If so what amount to what velocities?

I also want to drop the F200’s for F100’s primers.

What are your suggestions?

Oh, and what would happens if I loaded TOO HOT for a soft boolit?

Thanks
Vinny

[mpmarty]

I'm sure someone on here knows this revolver stuff far better than I do but I'd drop back to basics and try faster powder and work up from "book" starting loads for this one. Slower powder doesn't always work out well in snubbies. I'd start with red dot or 700x if you've got it or some other shotgun/pistol powder. How is the forcing cone cylinder gap on your gun? Large gaps there can cause problems too.

[stocker]

What are you using for lube?

[vinnyg]

Using Lee Alox

[WHITETAIL]

vinnyg, Welcome to the forum!:redneck:
Now you want to go with a fast powder.

[WHITETAIL]

Then if that helps try useing JPW for your lube.:lovebooli

[Rico1950]

vinnyg,
No need for magnum primers with Unique.

[mooman76]

Try shooting them unsized if they fit good. Too hot and soft lead gives you leading but you already got that. I don't think too soft is an issue here.

[JIMinPHX]

Did you measure all the throats or just 1?

[warf73]

Red dot is a good choice of powder if you have it on hand. Its what I use in my 357 with a WW alloy with no leading so far. But the jury is still out since I've not shot loads of these down range yet.

[Bret4207]

4.0 Unique in a 357 case is a very mild load. I use 5.0-5.5 in 38 cases. First things first- has this gun had many rounds through it? If the forcing cone is rough that can cause leading and if there is a constriction at the barrel/frame junction that can too. So we need some more info- make, model, approximate number of rounds through it. What does it do with jacketed? Your alloy may be 12 Bhn, but what's it made up of? WW or a home mix? Is the gun cleaned of all jacket fouling? You're sizing .358 but what do the boolits actually measure?

Lotsa places to go with this.

[243winxb]

Question
I have 2400 and H110 powder should I load heavier? If so what amount to what velocities?

I also want to drop the F200’s for F100’s primers.

What are your suggestions?

Oh, and what would happens if I loaded TOO HOT for a soft boolit Air cool your bullets. Size to .357" for your barrel. Change your alloy, add some antimony. Make sure you have plenty of lube on bullets. NRA type 50/50 alox/bees wax works well for me for years. You will get some lead deposits in your barrel, its normal. If accuracy is good, dont worry about it. Make sure you have enough lube on the bullets. A 158gr with 13.0 Alliant 2400 is good in 357mag., i use a mag. primer. Any small pistol primer is OK. If you load is to hot for your alloy, your accuracy will be very poor. From an old post.
I used pure lead and mixed with solder to get it between 16-1 / 20-1 mix. Antimony makes the bullet harder and larger. You might want to add some 6% antimony magnum shot. A lead tin alloy gets softer over time. For 38special loading with 158gr. Alliant Bullseye 3.0g max is good. or 5.0gr Unique. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=59625

[mroliver77]

I would size the boolits as large as will chamber (or slip through the cyl mouth). For that light of charge I would go with a softer alloy myself. I shoot pure lead in these level loads with no leading where harder boolits would leave some lead in the bore.
Make sure you know what leading is. A gray discolor(wash) is normal with antimonial alloy. Leading is a definite buildup left in the barrel usually starting in the corner of the rifling or at the forcing cone(or throat).
Jay

[vinnyg]

JiminPHX
Measured all throats and all are .358

Brett4207
I am thinking that my loads are week and find the following loading data below but first,
It is a Taurus M605 2” barrel snub I am using as the guinea pig for learning this cast boolit stuff before I start using a good gun.  I have loaded and shot maybe thousand rounds through it including original factory loads but I have cleaned it good when I started with the cast boolits. I use the foam bore and it strips out everything as far as I can tell.

It shot excellent groups when I used Rem jacketed 110 hp in front of 5.9 grains of unique in 38 +p cases, 1.140” 7 Yards.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll215/oxnard_pic/1102.jpg

The 12 BHN is from straight lead came from stain glass shop.

Sized with the LEE .358 sizer die and they are coming out .357 I would have never imagined….that.

I just checked my .357 sizer and it’s producing them at .356…wow what’s up with that?


“If the forcing cone is rough and if there is a constriction at the barrel/frame junction”? How can I tell? The cylinder does not lock up real tight like my Smith and Wesson’s cocked or un-cocked.


357 magnum data I have.
LEE says 6.2 – 6.8 of Unique and Alliant states 6.8 as max.
Hornady 3.3 – 5.0 of unique

LEE says 13.9 – 15.3 of 2400 Powder
Lyman says 11.0 – 15.0 but theses are for Linotype cast

Vinny

[MtGun44]

Try 50/50 first. Probably the lube, and it is the easiest thing to
change.

Bill

[stephen perry]

I would try another cast bullet after you use a Lewis Lead Remover to purge your barrel of lead fragments and strips. Do this even if you have to buy some commercial cast.

If leading persists after the second lead bullet you might consider having your throat in your barrel worked over polished and possible leade angle changed. I see no reason that you can't use a hefty load in a short barrel if all the items I mentioned are done. I think you would save yourself allot of times and components if you do as I suggested.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[fredj338]

JiminPHX
Measured all throats and all are .358

The 12 BHN is from straight lead came from stain glass shop.

Sized with the LEE .358 sizer die and they are coming out .357 I would have never imagined….that.

I just checked my .357 sizer and it’s producing them at .356…wow what’s up with that?


“If the forcing cone is rough and if there is a constriction at the barrel/frame junction”? How can I tell? The cylinder does not lock up real tight like my Smith and Wesson’s cocked or un-cocked.

Vinny
When you say 12BHN, are you actually testing them or uessing? The reason I ask, lead wire I get form the local stainglass shop is almost pure lead, very soft, certainly not anywhere close to 12BHN.
Unique usualy runs great w/ lead bullets. You may just have a rough forcing cone & it's stripping lead. A 4gr charge is pretty low pressure too. It could be the bullet isn't upsetting to fill the bore & you are getting blow by at the forcing cone & it's melting the side of the base. Using 6gr under a 158grLSWC, you are only running about 1065fps in a 4". Still some room to run w/ Unique.

[jdgabbard]

Sounds to me like it could be the lube. I've had good luck with LLA, but never have liked it. How are you crimping? Rollcrimp or lee factory crimp? I'd stay away from the latter if I were you.

[Bret4207]

JiminPHX
Measured all throats and all are .358

Brett4207
I am thinking that my loads are week and find the following loading data below but first,
It is a Taurus M605 2” barrel snub I am using as the guinea pig for learning this cast boolit stuff before I start using a good gun.  I have loaded and shot maybe thousand rounds through it including original factory loads but I have cleaned it good when I started with the cast boolits. I use the foam bore and it strips out everything as far as I can tell.

It shot excellent groups when I used Rem jacketed 110 hp in front of 5.9 grains of unique in 38 +p cases, 1.140” 7 Yards. Then is should have the basic accuracy to do a decent job.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll215/oxnard_pic/1102.jpg

The 12 BHN is from straight lead came from stain glass shop. You tested it> Or are you extrapolating from something else?

Sized with the LEE .358 sizer die and they are coming out .357 I would have never imagined….that. Yeah, me neither till I stumbled on it one day. Could be you need to go larger, or...

I just checked my .357 sizer and it’s producing them at .356…wow what’s up with that? ... it could be your mic is off a thou. Do you have a standard to check against?


“If the forcing cone is rough and if there is a constriction at the barrel/frame junction”? How can I tell? The cylinder does not lock up real tight like my Smith and Wesson’s cocked or un-cocked. Slug the barrel. It's not always needed, but driving a soft lead slug through the barrel will often reveal tight spots. An egg type fishing sinker is about perfect. Start it in the barrel and cut some wood dowel to fit from the breech end, use several chunks and build them up, that way you'll be able to get them OUT after you expand the slug with a dowel from the muzzle end. MAke sure the barrel is lightly oiled and push it towards the breech with the gun in a padded vice. If there is a constriction you;ll feel it as you approach the barrel/frame area.

Whoops! I see you already slugged the barrel- did you feel any constriction?


357 magnum data I have.
LEE says 6.2 – 6.8 of Unique and Alliant states 6.8 as max.
Hornady 3.3 – 5.0 of unique

LEE says 13.9 – 15.3 of 2400 Powder
Lyman says 11.0 – 15.0 but theses are for Linotype cast

Vinny


At this point I'd say you have a basic fit issue. You say your barrel is .356 and cylinder throats are .358 but your sized boolit only go .357. Even if your mic is off a thou it's still a relative measurement and it's entirely possible the boolits are undersized. It's also possible you're reducing them further in the seating and crimping operation. You can tell by pulling a couple loaded boolits and measuring
to see if they got damaged.

Lee's Mule Snot has always been okay, not great, but okay. Another lube may make a difference, but my money is on that size issue. You can lap a Lee die out easily with abrasive paper on a rod rolled across your thigh. try 100 rolls and run a couple boolits through it. I opened a .329 sizer to .332+in 400 rolls across me manly leg using 220 paper, so don't go too far.

Easier yet, try a few unsized boolits and see what happens. Just tumble lube them and try it. As long as they chamber that is, so just try one first!

[243winxb]

I just checked my .357 sizer and it’s producing them at .356…wow what’s up with that?
You found your problem, make the bullets diameter larger.

[cbrick]

My money is on Bret's answer, your boolits are too small. Alloy effects sized diameter more than many people think so don't automatically blame the die. Your boolits have to be a mild snug fit in the throats, all of the throats.

The very last thing you need to try is a harder alloy as was suggested. With your very mild load if your alloy is in fact 12 BHN is too hard already. Too hard (not too soft) is the second leading cause of leading . . . right behind boolit fit. Make the boolits FIT the THROATS and step up the load and/or use a SOFTER alloy.

EDIT to add: All of this assumes that all of the physical dimensions of the revolver are correct including the timing. When the leading begins is it mostly on one side?

Rick