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drinks
05-01-2006, 08:17 PM
I recently bought some 820 and 680, the 820 is very good in my .45-70 with 405gr HB cast bullets in the 1200-1400fps range, consistent velocities and really good groups, all under 1x1" at 50 yds.
680 is another story, I have wide velocity variations, some times 200fps and the accuracy is from super when the variation is minimal, 3 in 1/4x 1/4" at 50 yds for 3 shots, to horrible, 4x6" or so at 50 yds.
Same bullet and rifle at same session, 320rf gc., Handi rifle.
Is anyone else using 680?
I have tried it with the Lyman dacron wad and without, the velocity vatiations are less, but the accuracy is not improved with the wad.
Help!
Don

Scrounger
05-01-2006, 08:58 PM
I recently bought some 820 and 680, the 820 is very good in my .45-70 with 405gr HB cast bullets in the 1200-1400fps range, consistent velocities and really good groups, all under 1x1" at 50 yds.
680 is another story, I have wide velocity variations, some times 200fps and the accuracy is from super when the variation is minimal, 3 in 1/4x 1/4" at 50 yds for 3 shots, to horrible, 4x6" or so at 50 yds.
Same bullet and rifle at same session, 320rf gc., Handi rifle.
Is anyone else using 680?
I have tried it with the Lyman dacron wad and without, the velocity vatiations are less, but the accuracy is not improved with the wad.
Help!
Don

680 is a ball powder and therefore will not work well at low pressure loadings. Increase your load one grain at a time until it settles down. That may well be faster than you wanted to load the bullet and recoil may be quite strong. If you want a lower velocity level, load with 4198 or 5744.

rikkit
05-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Drinks, I don't know if it will help but I have loaded several jugs of TCCI-680 which I was told was an equivalent to W680. I never could get consistent groups using it in straight wall cases, 45/70 and 38/55. But, 19 to 20 grains of the stuff is just great in most of my bottle neck '06 sized cases, 8mm, 30/40, 303 etc. 14 grains of this behind the Ly 308334 shoots like a dream in my 7.62 X 39 bolt gun. Hope this helps!

MikeG
05-02-2006, 09:00 AM
Drinks,

If by WC820 you mean the AA#9 clone, I would be careful about using it in the 45-70 as I have heard that WC820, or AA#9, or H110 or Win296 are all unsafe for use in large empty cases such as the 45-70. I have used WC820 in my 45-70, but I put powdered styrofoam in the case over the powder right up to the top of the case to eliminate the excess air space. These powders can detonate - explode in empty air space situations. The gun blows apart and so can parts of the shooter.

Mike G.

drinks
05-02-2006, 08:39 PM
This is great, I bought the 680 hoping to use it in place of 4198 which I use a LOT of.
Oh well, I also shoot .303 Savage, .308, 7.5x55 and .35 Whelen, so , hopefully, I can use the 16lb up in them, although I bought WC 844 for them!

sundog
05-02-2006, 09:08 PM
Well, 820 is sorta like AA9, ala H108. It'll light off in a large case like 32-40 or 30-06. The rest of the ball powders what are slower than that need some pressure to get a 'correct' burn which equals pressure which equals velocity. Do not expect to replace a stick with a ball. I'm supposin' that your 680 will work in smaller cases, like 25-20, instead of bigger cases like 35 Whelen. Or maybe 30 carbine, it might work in that. Just athinkin' out load.... sundog

9.3X62AL
05-03-2006, 02:28 AM
No experience with any of the 680/1680's yet, but I'd like to try some in the 25-20 as Sundog mentions. My lot of WC-820 closely resembles AA-9 performance, and has done decent work in the Magnum revolvers for me on the higher side of their performance envelopes. I'm reluctant to try any spherical powder in low density loadings, based on almost universal caveats in loading manuals to ths effect. WW-231 is the only exception I've made to this rule, following published data all the way.

C A Plater
05-03-2006, 08:23 AM
I have used 680 in .22 hornet in lighter loadings. With my batch, 11.5 grains under any bullet 45 grains or less has proved very accurate and extends case life in the thin hornet cases. At the other end, it is a favorite in my .500 S&W Encore. It is difficult to put too much powder in this round. My 40.0 grain load pushing a 440 grain cast gets a steady 1650 fps from the 20 inch barrel. I hear it does well in the .357 Maximum too.

frank505
05-03-2006, 10:02 AM
wc 820 is AA # 9. I know the folks who purchased it from the govt at .12 per pound. Most of it was sold to Claude Sonday of AA powders. The rest I've shot up(ha ha)

454PB
05-03-2006, 10:30 PM
While I have found my lot of WC 820 nearly identical to AAC#9 in burn rate, I question if it is the same powder. I poured some of each on a sheet of paper, and there is a distinct difference in appearance.

felix
05-03-2006, 10:56 PM
True, you can only count on an approximate appearance. Each lot might, or might not, be changed by mechanical means to make the burn rate closer to home plate for that powder "number" or contract. If the powder is still on the base line, chances are the powder will be re-sold as a "mod", like a #9C, #9S, etc., or even with a totally new number. If it burns, we'll take it provided the burn speed is anywhere close to what we can use. ... felix

Lloyd Smale
05-04-2006, 04:00 AM
Im with Frank. IVe boughten probaly 10 kegs of it so far and it looks like aa9 smells like aa9 and burns like aa9 and ill say it is aa9. Frank if you score any more at that price ill take a pickup load of it. Al and i would about sell our children to pay for it at that rate. Hell id probably retire and come and cast bullets for you for free for the rest of my life!!!QUOTE=frank505]wc 820 is AA # 9. I know the folks who purchased it from the govt at .12 per pound. Most of it was sold to Claude Sonday of AA powders. The rest I've shot up(ha ha)[/QUOTE]

9.3X62AL
05-04-2006, 11:39 AM
Two problems with selling children--

1) Few if any takers. Most folks my age are/have been parents already, so the market is pretty flat. Since my girls are all driving now--and keep the mechanic and myself very busy patching things up and turning wrenches--this forms yet another strong sales disincentive. The best you can hope for is husbands with a good set of Snap-On tools. To dream that such a young man would also enjoy lever rifles and revolvers is really pushing it.

2) The authorities seem to frown on such practices. I'm sure that most such minions are childless.

Lloyd Smale
05-05-2006, 05:10 AM
can i offer them up for hard labor????

mroliver77
05-06-2006, 01:39 PM
Ok I would sell my left jewel to buy WC820 at that price. I dont need the jewel as much as I NEED WC820. It has become my most used pistol powder and is working well in cast rifle too. Jay

Leadmine
05-06-2006, 03:51 PM
I'm finding WC-820 to be a great powder in cast rifle applications. I also use it in 357 and 30 carbine. WC-820 seems to work very well in all my rifle loads. A good go to powder.

drinks
05-06-2006, 08:40 PM
I tried the WC820 in .45-70, 405gr HB, 30 gr did just fine and was consistent in velocity and accurate, not as fast as I wanted, but I shall try it with the 320gr gc.
I have just reamed my .44mag. Handi barrel out to .445SM, AA manual, which came today, shows AA1680 as the only choice for .445SM,so I at least have a place to use some of the 680.

Marlin Junky
05-14-2006, 07:18 PM
I like 820 in the 30WCF with heavy boolits at 1500 to 1600 fps. My charges behind RCBS 30-180FN @ 194+ grains are in the 14 to 15 grain range and no filler is necessary for 1.5 MOA accuracy. I hope 820 will always be available on the surplus market but I believe 680 has fewer applications. My experiences parallel those of Don (Drinks) above (the guy who started this thread) and as soon as I started getting 200 fps spreads for 10 rounds I took 680 out of my normal rotation. I would use 680 for full house stuff up through the SuperMags only.

MJ

lar45
06-15-2006, 01:29 PM
I tried some WC680 in my 45-70 BFR with 10" bbl. I was getting erratic readings with regular CCI rifle primers. I switched to Fed 215's(I think, or CCI mags, dang CRS) with the mag primers the duds and p....ooooops and stuck boolits went away. I don't think I ever got close to a case full. Maybe I should have used some Dacron? At the top end loads, I was getting a 405 to 1750ish(CRS again, but I think that was it) I didn't feel real comfortable continuing with it and switched to 4227.

I have shot 10 gns 820 and 680 in the 06 with a 165 Lazer cast? Or Lee 170? At 25 yards, they were all crowding trying to fit in the same hole. I didn't chrono any. I've tried 820 and 680 in the 30-30 also with either of the above bullets. I seem to remember that both shot fairly well, but I was thinking of dropping the 820 as maybe it was abit too fast a powder if I was looking for more velocity.

I'm getting below the 1/2 mark on my 820 jug, so it's probably time to order more. I'm thinking of getting 3 jugs of that and 1 of something slower.
How is WC 846 and 844 for temp stability and ....
I have a jug of 852 and have shot it in my 06 with j-word bullets. It is accurate, but I still think that the pressure is abit high with a 165 going 2700.

drinks
06-17-2006, 04:47 PM
I tried WC844 in the .45-70, with the 320gr gc bullet, 60gr, about 95% full, shot fine, I do not have my notes here, but the velocity was about 1800fps and the variation was within 50fps, so I shall have a .45-70 use for that powder.
It is no good for the 405gr HB bullet, as I cannot get any accuracy with it at more than about 1300fps, but it does make one ragged hole groups at 50 yds if kept slow with a faster powder.
The Accurate manual shows AA 1680, aka WC 680, to be very useful in the .22s from .223 down, so when I get my .223 barrel I should have a use for it then.

drinks
06-29-2006, 05:50 PM
I shot today. .45-70, Handi rifle.
Lee 405gr HB , a/c wws, from 18gr to 25 gr WC820, sweet spot is 23-25gr, with 23gr doing 1300fps A and 25gr doing 1350fps A.
Later , I shall post the targets, but the holes are mostly touching at 50 yds, very pleasant to shoot, even though it matches the Win. and Rem. 405gr factory loads.
The 18gr load gave 1050fps and should not bother even the smallest woman, still very accurate.
Then I shot the RCBS 320gr wfgc, waterdropped wws, WC 844, 60gr gave 1900fps A and 64gr, a full case, gave 2150fps A.
These are quite accurate, but the recoil is at my limit, at least at the bench.
The variations in velocity were not bad at all, + - 35-40 fps and no fliers.
This should take care of just about anything.

BeeMan
08-10-2006, 11:37 AM
... 19 to 20 grains of the stuff is just great in most of my bottle neck '06 sized cases,

I have an old can of Win 680 and was curious. The RCBS 180FP over 21 grains and a tuft of dacron shows promise in 30-06. About 1750 fps and no pressure signs. SD was 10 FPS or less. Groups run 1.5 inches at 100 yds. Thanks for the tip!

BeeMan

DonH
08-11-2006, 08:20 AM
[QUOTE=MikeG]
If by WC820 you mean the AA#9 clone, I would be careful about using it in the 45-70 as I have heard that WC820, or AA#9, or H110 or Win296 are all unsafe for use in large empty cases such as the 45-70. I have used WC820 in my 45-70, but I put powdered styrofoam in the case over the powder right up to the top of the case to eliminate the excess air space. These powders can detonate - explode in empty air space situations. The gun blows apart and so can parts of the shooter.

Hi Gents;

I'm new here but wanted to comment on this subject. I don't have tons of experience with these powders but I have on hand and use a spherical powder labeled H-108 which is used interchangeably with AA #9 by ASSRA single shot lead bullet shooters with great success. I'm told by some who have tried WC 820 that it is virtually the same powder as AA #9 and H-108. A typical H-108/AA#9 load for .32-40 (200+ gr bullet) is 13.0 gr +/- which leaves a substantial amount of space in the case - and this is with the bullet seated in the throat ahead of the case. There have been no pressure or ignition problems whatsoever to my knowledge. Accuracy with this combination is such that the load is considered to be state-of -the-art by many of the better shooters.
WC 680 does not appear to work so well but problems seem to have more to do with ignition difficulties when loaded to lower densities. It is however my favorite for full throttle loads in .25-20WCF and some say it is the powder of choice for similar loads in the Hornet.
As to H-110/W 296, Winchester has always predicted dire consequences if their loads are deviated from in the slightest while Hodgdon gives data for both starting and max loads for h-11o. You decide!

Don

felix
08-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Actually, it is fairly easy to decide if and only if you are a diehard. Look at the ES's. If they are consistent in the mode of operandi, that is, the gun is shot in the same fashion from shot to shot with no deviation in angle, bolt throw, etc., then the safety is there when the ES's are low. The slower the powder for the application, the ES's have to commensurately lower for the load to be considered safe. How low? I would take an ES of 10 to be low enough for all of our ball powders. One must remember, though, the MODE of operandi at all times with those loads, and so MARKED! Obviously, not appropriate for action type of sports, but more for those related to BR type of work where the gun angle is 100 percent CONSTANT. ... felix

The problem comes in when developing a load. Much too hair-raising at my more mature age. I would apply PSB filler to make 99.9 percent sure there will be no SEE condition. But doing this at the location of the sport would require some manipulation techniques that to me would be no fun, especially in making ammo that would be considered as non-fixed. ... felix

Ricochet
08-27-2006, 09:22 PM
I've used a good bit of WC680 in .45-70, both the Lyman Gould hollowpoint at about 340 grains in wheelweight metal, and a 325 grain Lee flatnose. Best load in my Microgroove Marlin is around 35 grains with a magnum CCI primer and a Dacron fluff filler, crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. About 1550 FPS.