40S&W case damage by die

[Harry]

I have a new Lyman carbide 2 die set for 40acp/10mm. I sized/decapped some brass and noted a small crease left at the bottom of the case at the stroke end. I can feel the ridge with my fingernail. Will this affect the feeding into my XD semi auto? I set the die per instructions. The bottom of the die is set with a gap the thickness of a matchbook cover from the shell holder.

[44man]

I have a new Lyman carbide 2 die set for 40acp/10mm. I sized/decapped some brass and noted a small crease left at the bottom of the case at the stroke end. I can feel the ridge with my fingernail. Will this affect the feeding into my XD semi auto? I set the die per instructions. The bottom of the die is set with a gap the thickness of a matchbook cover from the shell holder.
Either your press is out of line or the chamber is allowing the brass to expand more on one side. I would guess it is the chamber. Some have no support on one side.
Look at fired cases and see what you have.

[StarMetal]

That's a case, no pun intended, of the old web bulge. That happens where the case is unsupported in many semi-auto pistols. Seems to be a problem with the 40 S&W.

I'm seeing it just doesn't happen in Glocks, boys. [smilie=1:

I doubt anything is wrong with your dies.

Joe

[Harry]

This crease was made during sizing, not from firing. You can actually see a better example in the case in the backround. I believe it is an alignment probelm with the press. My question is whether this will affect feeding in the semi auto pistol. I could reload 20 or so, and try them. I just don't want to do any damage to the pistol, such as jams, etc.

[GSM]

Might be a little more concerned about a blow-out than a jam. Looks to be a fairly hard crease. Does the crease go all the way around the cartridge or just part of it?

[cheese1566]

Had the same thing happen last week when SB sizing some 223 brass. Out of 400 pieces it happened about 10 times.
Could feel the distinct ridge. Discarded them.

:(

[jhrosier]

I have seen .40 S&W brass with extractor grooves cut too shallow.
They wouldn't fit into moon clips without a hammer and would probably fail to seat properly in a shellholder.
If the brass was fired in a Glock before you got it, the heads may well be expanded too large for the die to handle gracefully.
I've heard about fellows who set up to push such oversized brass completely through the Lee carbide factory crimp die to bring the head diameter back in spec.

Jack

[76 WARLOCK]

Do not shoot them, I had one that blew out at that point. It did no real damage but could have.

[thx997303]

The XDs have fully supported chambers.

[JIMinPHX]

I've see that all the time on cases that have previously been fired with hot loads by other people. I've never had any trouble from cases with those marks. I don't hot load them though.

[sleeper1428]

What you're seeing is the die resizing a case that may well have been shot in a Glock using the factory Glock barrel. This is a well known and well reported result due to the rather generous dimensions of the Glock chamber and the very generous relief of the chamber in the area of the ramp. This combination of generously cut chamber and large relief in the ramp area often cause a localized bulge to occur in cases fired in these factory barrels, the bulge located right in the ramp area where the chamber has excessive relief. This problem has become known as 'Glocked' brass and is most commonly found in the 40S&W and 10mm cases. And this localized bulging is why you only see this 'ridge' forming in one area of the brass rather than uniformly around the case.

Now, as to what to do to eliminate this problem. Perhaps the best long term solution for those using Glocks is to purchase an aftermarket barrel such as the Lone Wolf barrel. These barrels have a much tighter cut chamber and minimal relief in the ramp area. For those using other brands of handguns, there is something you can do to reduce or eliminate the 'ridging' caused by your resizing die. The basic idea is to resize the case by doing a complete, full length resizing BEFORE you run the case through your regular resizing die. To do this you can either purchase one of the new dies put out by Redding (the G-RX 40S&W sizing die) that are designed to 'push' the bulged case up through the die and thus resize it completely, including the 'bulge'. Another way to do the same thing is to get a Lee Carbide 40S&W/10mm Factory Crimp die and then use the push rod from a Lee Push-Through Lube setup to push the cases up through this die or, as I did, you can, if you have access to a metal lathe, just turn yourself a pushrod. Either way, what you're going to do is to push each bulged case THROUGH a die that will resize it full length rather than lowering a sizing die onto the case which will, as you've discovered, result in the 'ridge' that forms where the last few milimeters of case at the base is not sized. This full length resizing works because the base diameter of the 40S&W case is the same as case diameter and therefore you can push the case right through a sizing die without worrying about altering the diameter of the base of the case.

If you do a search on this subject you will find a reference to a video that someone posted showing exactly how to do this using the Lee Factory Crimp Die and the pushrod from a Lee Bullet Sizing kit. But since that video was made, Redding, as I mentioned above, has come out with a die meant specifically to do the job of removing the base bulge from 40S&W cases.

Hope this answers your questions regarding the 'ridge' you're finding after running you cases through a regular resizing die.

sleeper1428

[thx997303]

What the heck is a 40ACP? Is that like the 40 Smith and Wesson? :p

[mike in co]

i think you can fix this by replacing your 40ACP dies with a set of 40S&W DIES......





40 ACP....COME ON!!

ruger puts "40 auto" on thier guns 'cause they cannot stand the idea of putting "40 S&W" on thier guns........that does not make 40 S&W an ACP(AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL).


i did not read the whole thread, but hornady now makes a push thru fl die just for 40 S&W......

its not really a case of unsupported...a condition of VERY EARLY glock guns. it is a case of large chambers on glock guns(it one of the reasons thier guns funtion so well). the large chambers combined with the fact that most ,if not all, pistol dies do NOT size the whole case. the unsized portion of the case is very small, BUT when one stacks 10 to 14 in a mag, it adds up. i have seen 10 rd mags only take 9.......could not get the last one in.

use to be the only two anwers were roll size or new brass. the hornady die now means the home relaoder can fix the brass themselves....

maybe the xd series has a large chamber like the glocks.,,,,,

mike in co

[clintsfolly]

check your press ram and shellholder for crud holding them out of line clint :castmine:

[Harry]

Sorry about the terminology. Yes, 40 S&W. I had a senior moment, thinking about my 32cal. The ridge does not go all the way around the case, only about 1/3. These are Magtec. They are once fired in my XD. I am about convinced from what I have read here, that it is an alignment problem with the press. I am using an old Lyman EZY-Loader with a J to X adapter and a new Lyman shell holder. I think I may not have had the set screw tight enough and the shell holder was able to move slightly. Thanks all for the input.

[Catshooter]

Ahh, Magtec. That may well be your problem. Got any other brands?


Cat

[MT Gianni]

check your press ram and shellholder for crud holding them out of line clint :castmine:

I think we have a winner. The other cases in the pic look OK. I suspect the shell was not fully into the shell holder.

[45nut]

I felt compelled to edit the thread header,, just could not let it ride... ugh.

[StarMetal]

Cases are smaller then the chamber, they have to be in order to function reliably. When holding the gun in the horizontal firing position the cartridge is theoretically laying on the bottom of the chamber and expands all but down since it's against the bottom chamber wall already. Add to this guns that have unsupported chambers bulge one area more. Not saying the XD does, just covering all expansion issues. So you die makes that crease on the area of the case that expanded. But since you don't want to believe that and buy a whole new setup I'll take your old press, dies, and shell holder. A shell holder has to be filled with a lot of crud, hard crud, in order to prevent the case from self aligning.

Joe

[Harry]

Thank you 45NUT. I tried to edit, but found I could not edit the title. I'll try to be more careful in my terminology in the future, but no guarantees.

[StarMetal]

You done good anyways Harry...close enough for govt. work. We knew what you meant and mike was just teasing you.

Harry clean your shellholder, then fire somemore or size some that weren't sized yet...report back. I have about 300-400 40 S&W cases once fired, some from a Glock you pay the shipping on them you can have them.

Joe

[Down South]

I’ve resized a lot of 40 S&W Glocked Brass. I’ve never had a piece of it form a ridge like that. I don’t load that brass to full load because I worry about it possibly being weakened in the web area where the bulge was. My S&W 40’s have a much smaller unsupported chamber section compared the Glocks. There are rumors floating around and there may be some truth to them that if the bulged area lines back up with the unsupported area of the chamber then a blow out is possible due to the weakened area. I don’t know if this is true or not so I decided to be safe rather than sorry. The 40 S&W is already operating at the top end of the pressure range. This is one of the reasons not to shoot reloaded Glocked brass through another Glock.
If the problem is not due to alignment of the shell holder and die then I’d say the brass came from an oversized chamber and had been loaded hot.
If you have some other 40 S&W brass from a different source, it would be a good test to see if the ring forms on it when resized.

I did buy 100 rds of Hornady 460 S&W brass some time back that had been supposedly once fired, sized, deprimed and belled. I did what most reloaders would do and ran it through my resizer just to make sure it was OK.
I got a ridge on every piece that I resized that looks identical to the one on your 40 S&W brass. I experimented a little with the brass and found that I could back out my resizing die about three rounds and eliminate the ring. I too thought that I may have an alignment problem so I resized some some 454 Casull brass with the same setup with no problem.
I’m thinking whoever sold me the brass fired some hot loads in loose chambers. Maybe that was why they were getting out of the 460 S&W business. A 460 loaded hot would be a real hand full.
I decided not to use that 460 S&W brass and purchased new.

[scb]

From my experience and understanding this is not uncommon. In my case it has been caused a "generous" fed ramp. I believe that this is the reason for the product linked to below.

http://magmaengineering.com/products/case-master-jr-rimless-case-sizer

(may have to open window completely)(check out manual)

[Cadillo]

There is no alignment problem. Cases that have bulged like that bulged on the bottom or unsupported side, so when you size them the ridge forms on the side where the bulge was most pronounced. This is very common when loading range brass that has been fired in various weapons, some of which have loose and or unsupported chambers.

Get the Redding push through die and size all range brass through it prior to loading and enjoy yourself.

[Freischütz]

Did this happen with every case, just some cases, or just a certain brand?

I have purchased dies that sized a little too much and created ridges like those shown in your picture. Some only did it with one brand of case. One did it with brand new unfired cases. I've also seen cases that were slightly out of spec produce this.

If case support is an issue, you should be able to feel and probably see an unusual bulge Ridges caused by a tight die don't appear to hurt the brass. Those caused by overexpansion ruin the case.

[Dframe]

There is no alignment problem. Cases that have bulged like that bulged on the bottom or unsupported side, so when you size them the ridge forms on the side where the bulge was most pronounced. This is very common when loading range brass that has been fired in various weapons, some of which have loose and or unsupported chambers.

Get the Redding push through die and size all range brass through it prior to loading and enjoy yourself.
Cadillo is 100% correct. This type of evgraving on the brass is very common and nothing to worry about unless you are shooting it multiple times with maximum loads.

[Harry]

StarMetal, PM sent.

[TAWILDCATT]

that is caused by large chamber.the solution is to do what the commercial reloaders do size them by rolling in a tool for that purpose.I took 20,000 to a company in conn to have it done.remember that 40 gets its power from 40,000 lb pressure.why I cant see using 40s.you can get about the same results with 185 gr in a 45 acp.meaning power not bulge.