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ohiochuck
10-27-2009, 09:26 PM
Which molds are recommended for using in a Winchester Model 70 in .22 Hornet?
Thanks!
Jim

beagle
10-27-2009, 10:13 PM
I'd start with a Lyman 225438 and if you can't find that, a Lyman 225415. Supposedly, Lyman still makes both. In the Hornet, you have a slow twist working against you but once you find a load, they're fine little guns./beagle

Charlie Sometimes
10-27-2009, 10:26 PM
Ditto what Beagle said.
Those are the ones that I found worked best so far in my Ruger, but it's 1 in14 twist.
See what yours is- I suspect it is slower (1 in 16) and if so, you might need the lighter boolits.

Marlin Hunter
10-27-2009, 10:35 PM
Which molds are recommended for using in a Winchester Model 70 in .22 Hornet?
Thanks!
Jim

How do you like the 22 Hornet? Accuracy wise and economy wise versus the 22 long rifle. I have been wanting to get a rifle that uses smaller reloadable 22 cartridges. I was looking at the 22 hornet, 218 bee, and the 221 fireball. When you consider that all 3 of those cartridges use the same primer and bullet, the only cost difference is the powder. And the 221 can be made from old 223 brass.

sundog
10-27-2009, 10:39 PM
Felix and I shot 22 center fires today on good inside benches at 100 yards. We had a great time. I've got a 222 and a 22-250 that loves the 22 Bator with 8.5/N105 and 15.0/N110 respectively. We also shot some other boolits, but the Bator is still strong.

We had a great visit. Mrs Sundog joined us for lunch in town. Then Felix and I hit the range. The all wx shooting building was really not needed the wx was so nice, but we set up there anyway because of the great loading bench along the back wall. Doors and winders (that's those glass sliding things here in Okie land) wide open enjoying it all. Load and shoot. Load and shoot. Load and ah sh$t. Well, yo get the idear. We shot LOTS of BOOLITS, mostly 22.

At times, the breeze was a little squirrelly due to the berm configuration, and sometimes the mirages was a little problem. BUT! We manged. Quite nicely. We shot. We talked. Did I say it was a nice day?

Bullshop
10-27-2009, 11:19 PM
For all hornets using 1/16" twist and faster the one I can recommend without reservation is the NEI #2. I either have or have tried everything mentioned here and many more and the NEI is best for all twists.
For faster twist 1/14" and faster I also like the CBE 52gn.
I personally have not gotten good performance from the Bator design in my hornets.
The Bator is very compact so short for its weight of about 52gn depending on alloy. Being so it should do well from slower 1/16" but I just have not been able to get from it the accuracy I expect from the hornet. Others have but I can not. For me the one place the Bator has shined is in a Ruger single six converted to center fire and chambered for the 22 CCM. In that gun the Bator comes out on top. I assume the single six is a 1/16" twist.
I got in on the group buy for the RCBS remake so sent my old RCBS mold to Buckshot to have the gas check shank removed to make a lighter PB design. Just got it back on Saturday and cast some yesterday. With a BHN 8 alloy they came out at 48.5gn. They should work very well for light loads in the slow twist barrels.
I had some time ago sent Buckshot a Lyman mold for their 60gn RNGC for the same treatment. Both these molds were too long for 1/16" twist barrels which was why I wanted them shorter, that and I wanted some for real PB 22 cal molds.
The RN worked out really well but was lacking somewhat in killing effectiveness from the single six 22 ccm. Now with a real FNPB design I am anxious to see how this one works.
Sorry I may have rambled from the original topic but at least I stayed close with 22 cal boolits.
BIC/BS

dualsport
10-27-2009, 11:37 PM
Get the Hornet. Check out the Savage M40,(the new one, it's on their website). It's an awesome gun, single shot, Accutrigger, beautiful blue job. Mine is a tack driver with j bullets, almost as good with cast, I'm working on that. I've used the Lyman 225450 and 225438, both good bullets. There's a lot of info available for cast bullets in the Hornet.

JeffinNZ
10-28-2009, 04:22 AM
My old BRNO Hornet used to do very well on a 225415 at 1900fps.

HORNET
10-28-2009, 12:49 PM
That M-70 Hornet of the OP is most likely a 16" twist. It's real hard to beat the 225438 for general use in that twist. I've used them over charges from 3.6 Unique to lightly compressed over 4227 and it just works. The older 48-50 gr 225415 works well, but not with very light loads. I've loosened a lot of primer pockets trying to get the heavier boolits to stabilize at longer range without much success in 16" twists. I would expect 14" to be much more forgiving. Still thinking about re-chambering that #3 Ruger to a stock .218 Bee or .221 Fireball.

Herb in Pa
10-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Great timing on this thread, I've got a Lyman 225438 arriving by UPS this afternoon. With the onset of cooler weather it's time to put my rimfires away and play with cast boolits. I intend to give my 1730 Anschutz a good try! I'm not interested in velocity, just accuracy.......any starting load suggestions??

felix
10-28-2009, 01:12 PM
I had the bench gun (222-40 degree) and a 22-250 tight fit, but not tight neck (at 254), BDL. I was on the bench closest to the berms having tremendous boil and occasional unseen circular whips. Not good for testing boolits of any sort. You can't hit what you can't see, so I just played with previously loaded ammo for the most part. Could you say two, 2 inch groups, 2 inches apart good enough for boolit testing? Mucho wind flags would have been a must at this bench location and also a weather man doing the shooting. Yes, I had fun helping Corky do his thing with his guns. However, he said I did good at 200 with a tricked out military 06 shooting match condoms, so I have not deteriorated that much over the last year of NOT shooting at all. ... felix

BABore
10-28-2009, 01:14 PM
Check out the last two pages of this thread.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4853&page=21

beagle
10-28-2009, 03:39 PM
3.5 grains of Unique with a small pistol primers and the 225438 sized .225 works in my M77 Ruger and is a great Starling load and really upset a stray tom that was terrorizing the house cats. Should be just about right on squirrels as well. It's no speed demon but it's accurate and quiet.

The small pistol primer seems to give better results than do the small rifle primers.

The Hornet's funny. Any minute tweak to a load seems to drive it all over the paper. When you get a good load, stick with it and don't ness around,/beagle


Great timing on this thread, I've got a Lyman 225438 arriving by UPS this afternoon. With the onset of cooler weather it's time to put my rimfires away and play with cast boolits. I intend to give my 1730 Anschutz a good try! I'm not interested in velocity, just accuracy.......any starting load suggestions??

cbrick
10-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Ditto the Lyman 225438 recommended by beagle.

http://www.lasc.us/Lyman%2044%20gr%2022%20cal-6.jpg

Mine casts a great boolit, shame it's a two cavity not a four banger.

Rick

1Shirt
10-28-2009, 04:29 PM
:coffee:Like Bullshop I have not been able to get anything resembling accuracy out of my #3 K Hor with the bator. In fact, the only cast blt that shoots thru it accurately is the Lyman 438. The bator shoots well in my 223,222,22-250, but not quite as well as the Lyman 415 HP. Listen to Beagle!
1Shirt!:coffee:

303Guy
10-28-2009, 04:31 PM
The only bullet I had difficulty stabilizing in my 1 in 16 twist hornet was a 55gr FMJ BT. I got it to stabilize but it wasn't accurate (it went from hitting sideways to straight on). I got good accuracy and power from 60gr Hornady spire points but settled on 55gr spire points for the cost and slightly flatter trajectory. The only cast boolits I have tried are not very well formed RCBS 22-55-FN (which is a 55gr GC). I tried two loading methods, one a conventional sized neck and H4227, the other with the boolit seated in a paper cup and unsized neck over 13gr or so of Lil'Gun. There was no boolit yaw visible on paper targets but accuracy wasn't satisfactory (the castings were not very good, so ... ). I expect the velocities were around 2500fps or more for the H4227 loads and around 2650fps for the Lil'Gun loads. This same gun does not like 46gr HPRN 218 Bee j-words. It's a 1431/32 Anschutz.

wilddog45
10-29-2009, 08:25 PM
I use 9gr of lil gun behind the 225438 with acceptable results. It will flat gut a rabbit from end to end.

stephen perry
10-29-2009, 11:18 PM
I do not have a 22 Hornet. I can not find one I can afford yet. I would like a Savage 340 Hornet. I would not buy a Winchester Model 70 Hornet as I would not like to pay collector value. Don't know any other factory models maybe someone could add them.

I have 225438 and 225415. I would try 225438 first and 225415 second. Sizing if you know bore Dia. try 1 number over bore first and 2 numbers over second. I would try both no GC first. Powder I use Unique for my .222 if you don't have some buy some. A second choice in powder would be Red Dot. Ptimers now I use WSR but Rem 6 1/2, Fed 200, or CCI 400 do fine.

Good Luck and clean good before you go to the Range next time.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Bert2368
10-29-2009, 11:44 PM
Don't know any other factory models maybe someone could add them.

I can highly recomend the CZ-527 in .22 hornet.

Gohon
10-29-2009, 11:55 PM
The Browning Micro-Medallion A-Bolt is another sweet shooter. Had a Ruger 22 Hornet but it seems the Ruger Hornets are a hit or miss for accuracy. Mine was a miss so traded it on the Browning 22 Hornet. Couldn't be happier.

rhead
10-30-2009, 04:53 AM
Nef makes a handi rifle in 22 hornet. an excellent shooter.

Herb in Pa
10-30-2009, 02:50 PM
Great timing on this thread, I've got a Lyman 225438 arriving by UPS this afternoon. With the onset of cooler weather it's time to put my rimfires away and play with cast boolits. I intend to give my 1730 Anschutz a good try! I'm not interested in velocity, just accuracy.......any starting load suggestions??

Well I went out today to fireform some brass for the Hornet, I loaded up some Red Dot behind the 225438 boolit. I was pleasantly surprised at the results at 50 yards. I just shot 4 shot groups at 50 yards. 2.0 was 1.715", 2.2 was .547", 2.4 was 1.832", 2.6 was 1.628" and 2.8 was 1.100".

3 shots @2.2 was .203"
3 shots @ 2.6 was .545"
3 shots @ 2.8 was .412"

This is my first try at casting 22 caliber boolits........

Bullshop
10-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Looks like ya done good there Herb. Hope your first try aint your last. I think you will find there are better powders than RD for the hornet.
Just like in so many other cartridges with boolits they respond well to a longer slower push. Try a case full of 4759 or even RE#7.
BIC/BS

wilddog45
10-31-2009, 09:38 AM
Bullshop, I like the looks of the NEI #2 listed at 45gr ,especially the meplat, and was wondering what weight it drops for you and with what alloy?

Bullshop
10-31-2009, 01:40 PM
wilddog45
As I recall with straight ww a finished boolit with gas check and lube is 48gn. 48gn rings a bell but I cant remember if thats as cast or finished. I would have to check weigh one to be sure. With the WW allow a finished boolit may go as heavy as 50gn but I am sure not over. Safe to say then between 48 and 50 gn.
As it turns out the RCBS mold that I had Buckshot remove the gas check shank from also came out at 48gn as cast but with a BHN - 8 alloy. I worked up a load right away for my 22 Cooper both rifle and pistol and I am well pleased.
BIC/BS

dualsport
10-31-2009, 01:46 PM
Hornet lovers, check out the new Savage M40 .22 Hornet single shot. Beautifully made, very accurate.

Herb in Pa
11-04-2009, 04:49 PM
I've been conversing with Dan (Bullshop) about powder choices and he suggested trying SR4759 and Reloader 7. A case full (to bullet base) of 4759 measured 8 grains and I found an old Ken Waters article that listed loads from 5.0 to 7.5 grains. I loaded 5 rounds in increments of .5 grains starting at 5.5 and ending at 7.5. I realize that a .5 grain increment is such a small case is a bit too large, but I wanted to see if any pattern would develop.

5.5 grains = .389"
6.0 grains = 1.157"
6.5 grains = 1.917"
7.0 grains = 1.618"
7.5 grains = 2.032"

I realize that one 5 shot group proves nothing, but a full 25 round test of the 5.5 grain load is next on my list!

HORNET
11-04-2009, 05:57 PM
Try smaller steps than 0.5 grains. 0.2 grains WILL show a difference in the Hornet. General rule: steps of 2% of the charge weight.

Herb in Pa
12-08-2009, 06:23 PM
Powder choice has shifted to Reloader 7, I shot these groups this afternoon in some shifting winds @ 50 yards. The groups on the left were sized to .224 with less than acceptable results. The groups on the right were sized @ .225" ...........upper right group is .564" CTC, group below it is .486" CTC and lowest group with the adhesive target is .810" CTC with the flyer, 4 shots went into .536".

Lyman 225438 with gator check, Privi Brass, Federal Small Pistol Match primer, 10.3 grains of Reloader 7.

Bullshop
12-08-2009, 06:32 PM
Ah! You have learned well Grasshopper!

Xcaliber
12-09-2009, 01:33 AM
I have a 14" T/C .22 H. I don't know the twist on this barrel. Have never shot a cast thru it. Would like to know what would be good to use on Prairie dogs using a cast. What weight, what mold ? Can any one shed some light and get me out of the darkness ?

NHlever
12-09-2009, 12:12 PM
The old Lyman 225415 was a 45 grain boolit, but the new one is heavier, and has a longer bearing surface, and doesn't shoot as well in my Hornet. I would try the 225438 first.

Larry Gibson
12-09-2009, 12:35 PM
I have a 14" T/C .22 H. I don't know the twist on this barrel. Have never shot a cast thru it. Would like to know what would be good to use on Prairie dogs using a cast. What weight, what mold ? Can any one shed some light and get me out of the darkness ?

Best would be to measure the twist of your barrel. TC Hornet barrel twists vary. My 10" is a 14" twist and my 21" barrel has a 12" twist.

Larry Gibson

StarMetal
12-09-2009, 12:44 PM
Best thing to do, if it can be done, is to have our members send you a little sample package of different bullets to try before you invest in a mould that you gun may not like. My CZ 527 doesn't see to like the lighter weights much but shoots the NEI 55 grain house a blazes. It has a 16 twist, I measured it, as some members said it sounded like it was faster to shoot a heavier bullet. Don't listen to what we say will and won't shoot out of a particular twist.....just try it and find out. Now that's not to say that the members would be wrong in all cases, but the Hornet seems to be a little crazy about weights it shoot. I've even shot a 70 grain from mine and it wasn't keyholing, but the distance wasn't real far either.

Joe

HORNET
12-09-2009, 01:55 PM
The 225438 in either old or new configuration is generally a good choice for the Hornet. If you go down to the Vendor/Sponsors section, BRP Products has a 226-47-GC that looks interesting as well. The older 48-50 grain 225415 was superb in some loadings. Both of the latter have nice meplats to increase effectiveness.

Xcaliber
12-09-2009, 07:08 PM
Not knowing how to measure the twist on my 14'' barrel , what is the best possible way to do this and be sure before investing in a mold ? I googled for twist rates of contender barrels and one site listed the twist rate but not the barrel length , 1:12 . Does it matter ? Had been shootin 45gr. PSP on prairie dogs and just wanted to save money and cast for my .22 H. Another question would be gas checked or not for the mold to get.

Xcaliber
12-09-2009, 08:41 PM
I think i did the measuring right with my cleaning rod and tight patch. After marking my rod and saw it turn 1 full turn at the other end of the barrel, it came out 1:14 twist. If that is right, What mold would be good to get to cast out of ? OR did I do this right or wrong. I really don't know.

DLCTEX
12-09-2009, 10:28 PM
I only have 2 moulds in 22 cal. - 225438 (46 gr) and the Bator mould (55 gr). As yet I have had good results in the Hornet with the 225438 and not so good with the Bator, but have not shot it enough t say it won't work. I am using them in a Ruger 77-22 and a Tarus Raging Hornet pistol. So far nothing shoots well in the pistol, but I have not done much with it yet.

wistlepig1
12-10-2009, 01:19 AM
Dualsport, I have a Savage M 40, it is a great gun with J-word bullits. I got the lyman 438 and have tryed everything to get it to shoot without any luck at all with casts, 2 1/2-3 1/2 100yds
groups. I admit I am new to casting for 22 cals but I don't have any ideas where to go next. I get goods casts, I sort in groups + or - .01 grs, shot in one group only, and no joy. If you have a load for the 438 in a Savage 40, I would sure thank you for it. Thanks

dualsport
12-10-2009, 01:49 AM
wp, I'd be happy to share my load info, but I gotta dig it out. I'll get back to you tomorrow. I gotta make sure I find my best target, I save almost all of them, write the specs on the targets. I know for sure it was the old style 438, and the 224450.

wistlepig1
12-10-2009, 01:56 AM
I save most of my targets too and that sure improves my memory.
Thanks!

dualsport
12-11-2009, 02:46 AM
Well I tore the place apart and can't find any of my targets for the Hornet. I do have some of the leftover ammo in a box, for the 438 (old style) I used 4 gr. Unique and wrote "Good" on the label. I also used 10 gr. 2400 but no comment on the label. I remember some good groups, but couldn't swear to anything better than 2 1/2", which is what you're already getting. I have a long ways to go with the Hornet and my M40, but I think 1 1/2" groups are easily doable given more time. The jacketed loads are under a inch no problem. I believe this gun is capable of shooting cast bullets as well as it does jacketed, no reason it won't. Those little buggars are sure wind sensitive. Blows everyday at the range I shoot at. My plan is to use the Savage for ground squirrels in NorCal in the spring. I also have a H&R Hornet that is surprising, but the trigger is heavy. The AccuTrigger on the Savage has spoiled me. I think I was trying AA#9 in the H&R, it would definitely take out a jackrabbit at 100 yds. Wish I could be more help, if I find the targets I'll report back. EDIT; A surprise was S&B factory loads, very accurate and cheap too, and good reloadable brass.

BABore
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Dualsport, I have a Savage M 40, it is a great gun with J-word bullits. I got the lyman 438 and have tryed everything to get it to shoot without any luck at all with casts, 2 1/2-3 1/2 100yds
groups. I admit I am new to casting for 22 cals but I don't have any ideas where to go next. I get goods casts, I sort in groups + or - .01 grs, shot in one group only, and no joy. If you have a load for the 438 in a Savage 40, I would sure thank you for it. Thanks

I got a handful of the 438's from Starmetal while I was developing my own mold. Having never shot cast in a Hornet I started with real slow loads using Unique. Accuracy was dismal until I was close to a max load, then it tightened up some. I said what the heck and went for it. Tried 12.0 to 13.0 grains of Lil Gun and a CCI 500 primer. 5-Shot groups were just over an inch. His boolits were cast from 50/50 WW-Pb and water dropped. Sized 0.224 and lubed with NRA 50/50. I ran out of boolits before I could really get into it.

Later, after I got my own design cut (226-47 GC), I cast them from the same alloy,sized them 0.224, and lubed them with LBT soft. 12.7 grains of Lil Gun with a CCI 500 primer works great. I sort my boolits to the heaviest weight lot with zero weight variance for target work. My accuracy went array when temps went below 35-40 here in Michigan. Totally lube related and I've already switched to another one that I have yet to test. My boolit's lube capacity is enough that it left a wet bore with the LBT. This was setting up in the bbl when it got too cold. I've never had even a hint of leading shooting at jacketed velocities. I have yet to chrono the 12.7 grain load. Hodgdon's data says it should be around 2,800 fps with a similar weight jacketed pill. I'm shooting a Browning Micro Hunter with 1 in 16 twist. It has a 0.223 groove diameter. Loads were neck sized, flared with a Lee Universal expander, and crimped lightly with a Lee FC die. Below is one of the last groups I shot with my boolit on a nice foggy morning. 100 yards bench with 7x scope.

w30wcf
12-11-2009, 12:08 PM
BABore,
NICE SHOOTING! For the past few years my cast bullet shooting in the Hornet have been replications of the .22 W.C.F. loadings (1,500-1,600 f.p.s.).

Back in the mid 1980's I worked up some accurate cast loads for my K-Hornet. Velocities were in the Hornet range and accuracy was MOA for 5 shot groups if I did my part.

Bullets were the NEI 45 gr and the Lyman 225415 50 gr. Alloy was w.w. + 2% tin air cooled. Bullet lube was M&N. The Lyman bullet was a bit oversized and dropped from the mold at .229". I lubed it in a .228" die than ran it nose first into a .225. It still shot very well.

Thank you for sharing.
w30wcf

felix
12-11-2009, 01:14 PM
Excellent, Bruce! That would match what we got on that bad day in Tulsa in the bench gun, so it's not the boolit design. ... felix

BABore
12-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Excellent, Bruce! That would match what we got on that bad day in Tulsa in the bench gun, so it's not the boolit design. ... felix

I actually thought I could have done much better. It was so foggy out that I could just barely make out the target's diamond points. I waited a couple of hours for the fog to disapate and a 90 degree crosswind wind kicked up in 10-15 mph gusts. I fired two more 9-shot groups with the wind. 12.8 grains of Lil Gun went 1.00 high x 1.81 wide. 12.9 grains went 0.60 high x 1.50 wide. The very next weekend the temperature took a dip and ran into lube problems.

Bullshop
12-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Why can not I find the BAbore design? I go there but do not see any 22 cal design. What am I doing wrong?
BIC/BS

BABore
12-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Why can not I find the BAbore design? I go there but do not see any 22 cal design. What am I doing wrong?
BIC/BS

I just double clicked on the website addy in my previous post, then went to rifle designs. It the first one listed. Top left, just below the header.