.357 or .358 bullets?

[jason280]

First of all, thanks for the forum!

I am in the process of trading for 600 of the bullets pictured below. Bullet hardness is unknown, but the lead cannot be scratched with a fingernail. They are sized .357, weight is 158gr, and lubed with Magma (blue). I plan on running these through a couple of Blackhawks and a 92 lever gun, with velocities under 12-1300fps (possibly around 1100). I am not looking for match grade accuracy, just a good bullet to bang steel with. Here is my question. Should I hold out for .358 diameter bullets, or will these work fine for my needs? I understand this is a rather general question, but figured you guys could start me off in the wrong direction. Thanks!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/Jason280_5/Bullets.jpg

[docone31]

If they are as hard as you state, maybe. If the load does not make them skid and they are tough.
I use .358.
If you can hold out, I would.

[OutHuntn84]

As long as your not waisting powder by trying to increase your velocity past the point necessary or past the range for plinking steel, you should be fine. If you have time or for future referance slug the barrels and that should give you a better idea of how much ''grip'' a certain size bullets going to give you.

[38 Super Auto]

Here is my question. Should I hold out for .358 diameter bullets, or will these work fine for my needs? I understand this is a rather general question, but figured you guys could start me off in the wrong direction. Thanks!

Hopefully, we can do better than that.

In a perfect world, you would have slugged the barrels of the rigs that you'll be using to launch said projectiles: many suggest that you should use boolits 1-2 mils (that's 0.001-0.002") over groove diameter.

What does this mean? It implies that the boolit (or is it bullet) will be swaged as it enters the bore. When the bullet enters the barrel, it is squeezed to conform to the rifling. Most firearm bullets are sized slightly larger than groove diameter of the bore so that they are swaged to engage rifling and form a tight seal upon firing. Compare to obturate.

I have used both 1 and 2 mils over on my rigs with good results. On one .45ACP, I found rounds did not chamber reliably when I sized 0.002" over groove, so I was lucky enough to find a .4515" die on the evil auction network.

Short of measuring your groove diameter in your guns, you can use trial and error to determine which sized bullet diameter works best for you. Common sense tells us to proceed carefully with load development as a larger diameter projectile will offer more resistance traveling down the bore. You'll get a tighter fit WITH higher pressure.

Cheers,

rob :coffeecom

[beagle]

I'd hold out. My Blackhawks like at least .358" bullets and a little bigger if they can get it. Yours may be different though but that's my experience./beagle

[RoyRogers]

If they are as hard as you state, maybe. If the load does not make them skid and they are tough.
I use .358.
If you can hold out, I would.

Me too. Sure is disappointing to buy a big batch of pretty bullets and spend more time bore cleaning than shooting afterwards. I've cleaned lots of lead from my bores caused by bullets that look very similar to those. Not saying they're bad bullets, just that they leaded MY barrels due to being undersized. From now on I'll hold off on a quantity purchase of anything till I know for sure that something will work for my needs in my equipment. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way and I'm ashamed to admit how many times I've ignored my own good council in the past to just to be sorry later.

Maybe you could buy & try 50 or so to see how your gun likes them before committing to the whole batch?

[Piedmont]

Another thing to consider is those commercially cast bullets don't always measure what they say on the box. So your .357 bullets might well be .358 unless you actually measured them and know better.

[GP100man]

If i wuz gonna go for 6hunderd I`d ask for a sample batch even ifin i had to $$ forum

50 at least.

[Shiloh]

How long do you have to wait??

I would hold out for the .358. The .357 will probably work, but the .358 will be better.
Like Piedmont said, mike them, if you have a mike, they may be .358. I used to shoot commercial cast. They were ALL .358

Shiloh

[Bret4207]

I have 4 38's and 357's. Smiths and a Colts. None like .357 boolits, even the Colt OM Target with it's tighter barrel. I use .359 usually with good results in all 4.

[243winxb]

but figured you guys could start me off in the wrong direction. " Wrong" OK. lol The 158gr weight tells me its a hard alloy, if bullets had a lot of pure lead in them, they would be more heavy. As for diameter, they should be fine in the Ruger, the convertible shoots 9mm ammo. Don't know about the rifle. Everone makes such a big deal over .001" , set your micrometer to .001" see what it really looks like. Only way to know for sure is shoot them. http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action&famlst=19 Personally, i prefer diameters at .3575" for all.

[jason280]

Thanks for the information! I have decided to hold off on the bullets for not, or at least until I can get a smaller sample to try.

[mdi]

Have you slugged your barrels? Can't properly fit a boolit if you don't know what size your bore is.

[cbrick]

I plan on running these through a couple of Blackhawks and a 92 lever gun, with velocities under 12-1300fps (possibly around 1100). Should I hold out for .358 diameter bullets, or will these work fine for my needs?

figured you guys could start me off in the wrong direction. Thanks!

Welcome to the forum Jason, I don't think you'll find many on this forum that would like to get you started off in the wrong direction. :veryconfu

For the Blackhawks you need to slug the throats to get a proper fit, slug the bore of a revolver only to make sure that the groove diameter is not larger than the throat diameter.

For the levergun slug the bore and shoot them .001" to .002" over groove diameter.

For the lighter loads you mentioned many commercial cast bullets will be too hard.

If the .357" is a bit too small and they are too hard (they are) you will get both leading and poor accuracy. I wouldn't buy 600 of something that I don't know and well may not work. Get a smaller sample of .358" to test and odds are Jason will be a much happier camper.

Rick

[wiljen]

So far nobody has asked that I have seen, Have you used this bullet at that diameter before and what were the results? Someone did mention samples, I'd second that as 600 is an awful lot of bullets if they don't shoot well in your guns.

[Char-Gar]

I will take the contrary positions. With those bullets, of that alloy with that lube you will never noticethe difference between 357 and 358.

If you were casting your own, of different alloy, with different lube and you knew the specs of your firearms, the maybe all of the cast bullet esoterica would matter.

But that is not the case here and I wanted to answer your question based on the bullets you will get and not the bullets you will not get.

[Wally]

I have been using a .359" sizer for use in all my .38 caliber guns...has served me very well...

[runfiverun]

my 92 will not feed those swc's in 38 special cases,in 357 cases it will but not worth the effort.
they are pretty accurate out to 50 yds though.
never even tried 357,but you may be able to get away with it in a lever gun they play by different rules than a revolver does.
i have had good luck running right at the groove diameter with softer alloys.
you gotta try some and see, thats how cast is.

[jason280]

Thanks again for the information. I think my best bet is to go ahead an slug the throats on the BH's and the bore on my 92, and go from there.

[ph4570]

My blackhawk wants .360 minimum. Bore is .358 and throats are closely matched at .360- using pin gages. But yours could be tighter. My blackhawk manuf year is 1959, got it used when I was a wee lad of 8 yrs.

[jason280]

Honestly, I really prefer using one bullet for all three guns. It should be cheaper to buy one size, and considerably easier to load. My plan is to eventually get into casting my own, but at this point I am stuck buying others.

[Bret4207]

Then go with the fatter one.

[runfiverun]

yep...

[Slow Elk 45/70]

My Rugers like fatter boolits....360 . .359 work in my guns, but my cylinders will take the .360
and they shoot just a bit better for me...in these guns. Good luck.