First time shooting Flintlocks!!

[Tumtatty]

I spent the day at the Durham Rifle and Pistol Club shooting flintlocks for the first time. To this point I've been shooting WWII rifles and a Martini. I think the "click-whoosh-Bang" weapons are my new favorites!

I cast about 20 rounds each for my 2 new muskets. For the Baker I used a Lee .620 mould and for the Bess I had a Jeff Tanner .730 mould.
I used FF in the barrel and FFFF in the pan.
I cut my own patches from pillow ticking for the Bess and used pre-cut patches for the Baker (pillow ticking and plain cotton).
I lubed all the patches with Trapper's Pure Mink Oil from Track of the Wolf.
http://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/Baker2.jpg

I was a little worried about shooting the Baker. The previous owner stated that it had only been used to fire blanks. The kit was assembled moderately well, but it I wasn't completely comfortable with a small gap between the barrel and the breech tang. I did some work on the stock around the tang area to close the gap, but a little bit still remains. The barrel is is seated very tightly so I thought I'd risk it.
The first few shots (the first I've ever taken with a flintlock) were all over the place. I think I pulled them when I heard the primer pan go off instead of holding steady. When I checked the patches they were shredded into small bits. However as I continued to fire they held together and I could see the rifling pattern in them.
http://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/Baker patches.jpg

My last 7 rounds were the most accurate. Here's the target at 50 yrds as I shot from a sandbag rest. The puny holes were from my buddy who was zeroing a new scope for his 22-250.
http://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/baker_target1.jpg

Out of 20 rounds fired I only had 1 "click" with no ignition. I used the same flint all day as well. Overall I'm extremely happy with the performance of this Baker!!

Next I loaded up the Pedersoli Bess which had never been fired:
http://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/Bess4.jpg


Here are some of the patches and the target from with my last group at 50 yrds from a sandbag. The Bess had no misfires whatsoever and both muskets had extremely fast ignition.
http://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/Bess patches.jpghttp://www.kingsthrift.com/forums/bess_target.jpg

What a day! Every shot was exciting. Thanks to everyone who helped me figure how how to load for these!

[fishhawk]

nice thing with the flinters is you can take almost all afternoon to shoot 50 rds and still have fun and not go broke doing it! steve k

[odis]

I love the smell of black powder in the morning, it smells like....... history!!!!

[madcaster]

Puny holes from a .22/250-only about 1/3 the size of the Bess's balls.Gotta love that!:drinks:

[Lead Fred]

No matter how I am feeling when I go out to shoot my flinter

Im always smiling when I leave the range

[hamour]

Hey TumTatty, put a 20ga felt wad over that powder, your patches will thank you! I use the ones lubed with "Wonder" lube, it protects the patch from blow by.

Shooting a FL reminds me of shooting a short bbl 44 magnum. The hot muzzle blast just infront of your face has to be ignored, just like the pan flash.

Have fun

[Maven]

Tumtatty, It looks like your Baker Rifle needs an overpowder patch* to prevent the other ones from shredding. Am I correct in assuming you can't use a thicker patch? Another alternative is to look at Circle Fly's site, specifically their .135" thick nitro cards or vegetable fiber wads: www.circlefly.com (click on the "Welcome" tab) if you'd rather go that route.


*Sam Fadala recommended using a dry patch, cut from the same material as your regular patches, over your powder charge to prevent blown patches. He also recommended a piece of hornet's nest, used in the same manner and for the same reason.

[Tumtatty]

Thanks Guys!

On the Baker I used 2 different thicknesses. The plain white cotten had holes in it every time. The pillow ticking was shredded at first but then, as I continued to shoot, the patches looked like they do in the pic. There were no holes and the rifling was visible on them. Is that what I want to see?


Maven you are correct I could not use a thicker patch without significant "pounding." Some of these even needed a rubber mallet to get them all the way down.

I guess the lube started greasing the barrel and the patches started surviving their trip down the barrel. Accuracy definitely improved the more I shot the rifle.


The Bess shot like a champ from the get go!I almost went with one of the Indian repro Besses to save money. I'm very glad that I spent the extra $ on this one.

I wish it had a rear sight. I think I might try to make one that I can hold in place with the barrel tang screw.

I am definitely hooked!

[mooman76]

Yes that is what you want to see. Small holes are ok but no holes is better. If the gun has never really fired rounds out of it they do have a break-in and shooting it will smooth the barrel so it doesn't cut the patches.

[docone31]

I have fired mine with lapping compound on the patch for lube!
My wife's .54 had a rusty bore. Since patches can be thickened I figuired why not.
after four shots, the bore was smooth on the loading. I couldn't feel the drag spots. There were several. Now none. The group tightened up. I did it with my Hawken also.
Made a good difference. The Hawken was new. Now no torn patches. I still have to hammer the balls into the bore, but I like it that way.
My R.E.A.L.s go in smoothlhy once the rifleing is set.
I might hold off on lapping your Bess though.
It looks good.

[northmn]

The Bess I had was very reliable also. As to the Baker, you should not have to pound in a patch combination to get good results. As stated barrels sometimes need a little shoot in time. They used to say the difference between a match barrel and a regular barrel was from 100-500 shots. If you enjoy the Baker there is a series of British TV shows about the 95th, the first British rifle unit. Its starts with Sharpes Rifles and goes on from there. I get them through NETFLIX. Its a fairly authentic series where they actually use Bakers and you actually see flintlocks working. There was an actual British sharpshooter, Pluckett, I believe who made some pretty fantastic shots on French officers with one. You will get better with the flintlock as you shoot them. Shooting a flintlock makes you a better all around shot as you have to learn "follow through" Have fun.

Northmn

[pietro]

I was greatly surprised at the virtually instant ignition I got from my Austin & Halleck Mountain Rifle .50 rocklock the first time I shot it (the 1st rocklock I EVER shot, BTW).

It was MUCH faster than any caplock I've used - even the inlines !

.

[waksupi]

I was greatly surprised at the virtually instant ignition I got from my Austin & Halleck Mountain Rifle .50 rocklock the first time I shot it (the 1st rocklock I EVER shot, BTW).

It was MUCH faster than any caplock I've used - even the inlines !

.

E-yup. Been trying to tell people that.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Tell me more about the "Baker", if you would please. To date, my experience with rock rifles has been my Tulle Fusil de Chasse, and a brief fling with one of the Dixie Tennessee Rifles about twenty years ago. There is something about the smell of sulphur and all that smoke in a flinter that even the BPCR rifles can't duplicate. The ML rifles are a leisurely walk back two hundred years in time.

Rich

[JRW]

Very similar in sounds to my first experience with a "fowler". Older gent brought one out to the skeet range, offered to let me shoot the thing, BAD mistake! first off, showed how poorly my follow through was/is in shotguns, second, made me want one real bad! That thing was an absolute hoot to shoot! The pullers aren't too crazy about it, as it takes Merle about an hour to shoot 25 birds. I explained to the pullers, they will be happy to be moving at 85 years old, after several stokes! Let alone breaking 12 - 15 birds whenever he shoots!

[northmn]

The Baker was a standard British military rifle for I believe about 40 years and was gradually replaced by the Enfileds whcih used minies and were percussion. The original Bakers had a twist of 1-120 (one turn in 10 feet) and were heavy built as a military rifle and included a bayonet attachment for a hanger or sword bayonet (it was said the rilfemen generally used the bayonet as a sword and not as a bayonet) . As to flintlock rifles in general, most reaquire a good lock and a good touch hole setup such that powder does not get into the vent when carrying the rifle. Many now have inserts. One of the best is Chambers white lightening but it requires a special tap as it is threaded 1/4 X32. I tend to make my own now out of stainless bolts. Ideally they recommend the "sunrise" position for the vent which is sligthly above the top of the pan (bottom of the touch hole top of pan) Rich Pierce sells good flints. While some folks claim good luck with production flintlocks I have not seen any that work as well as one made with a good lock either form a kit or cusom built. Sorry but that is what I have seen. A good one costs a bit but is well worth it for fun. I have built several but do not do custom work as I got burnt out a while back and am just starting to rebuild. The Baker had a pretty large lock as does the Bess for reliability. Big locks with big touchholes are more reliable, but slower, smaller locks are quicker but less reliable. A big lock uses a big rock against a big chunk of steel from a strong spring and puts sparks into a big pan. Its that simple.

Northmn

[Tumtatty]

My Baker was a kit from the Rifle Shoppe. It was one of their earlier versions. I think mine has a lock that was not the original. The inletting doesn't quite match up in a few places. However it is in their nice and tight and only had one misfire out of 20 shots.

Although rifled muskets had been around since the 1760's (or earlier) they were not issued in large numbers to frontline troops. The Baker's were issued to special rifle companies who acted as skirmishers ahead of (or on the flanks of) traditional infantry units.

The barrel is rifled (7 groove) and seemed to perform much better once some lube/fouling built up in there.

I'll post some pics shortly.

The Baker's were criticized for being difficult to reload. However this has been somewhat debunked as of late by Dewitt Bailey. A reanactment group in Australia has put together a youtube video using Bailey's research into reloading methods.
Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqz7XLkyx8Y

[northmn]

According to Bailey in his book on English military arms the Baker was a spin off from the German Jaegar. The Baker was the first standard rifle and was developed at around 1800. There were two original versions. One was a musket caliber of over 70 cal, and the other the 64 cal or so (they used the 620 RB) The 62 became the standard. The 95th was a "Ranger" unit and was often used like the American riflemen to pick off officers and other special purpose uses. At that time, riflemen, could not load fast enough to stand up to musket armed infantry which would rush them while reloading. It was not unitl the Minnie bullet was invented that the rifles became usable as frontline weapons. Jaeger units included riflemen in our Revolutionary war and the British had rifles like the Fergussen. Our long rifles had more range such that the British rifles did not counter them much. Timothy Murphy had a swivel breech long rifle and was credited with 49 confirmed kills, including Simon Fraser at Saratoga.

Northmn

[Hanshi]

Tumtatty, you're doing something right judging from those targets. It does take a bit of shooting to break in a barrel. I highly recommend over powder wads for any rifle or gun.