Hispanic Protest

[Scrounger]

I don't know if there is anything going on in the rest of the country but the Hispanics have some activities planned for Monday here in Southern Nevada. I know it has to do with illegal immigration but I'm not sure what they're protesting about inasmuch as nobodies doing anything about it. Why are they rocking their own boat? In Vegas several of the hotels and restaurants are saying they will have to close, not so much in sympathy with the protestors as being forced to because 80% of their employees won't be showing up. Many smaller businesses will be closed not only for employee absenteeism but also fear of boycott from the Hispanics if their business does much trade with them. Much absenteeism planned in schools also. I expect the usual suspects will jump in and blame everything on the Democrats and Liberals, but please tell me what the Conservatives and Republicans have done to alleviate this problem? Who owns all the businesses and farms, etc who give these people jobs and thereby incentive to come up here? And who can really blame a man going wherever he has to in order to get a job to feed his family? How many of us have moved to another state, against our will but necessary for employment? And make no mistake, everyone of them would rather be in Mexico if he could make a living there. I know why they come here, I even understand it, but there must be a point when we say, "Sorry, no more, we're full up". I have the solution, and the only one that would be satisfactory to everyone: Since the Mexican Government is not doing a satisfactory job of taking care of its people, we should move in and take over the country for their and our own good. Thirteen new states. Millions of acres of new land at decent prices, land for farming, factories, ocean front land for resorts. And a huge labor pool that doesn't think it's too good to do manual labor at reasonable wages. When's the last time you saw a white man picking strawberries or any of the other menial jobs they do because we're too good to do it? A huge amount of investment capitol would go down there. And people. Millions of US born citizens would move south. What a great place to retire to! And young people just starting out in life like in our West 150 years ago. And everyone of the "illegal immigrants"; I guarantee you they wouldn't give it 30 seconds thought, to go home to their families and be able to find work. And it would invigorate our country and keep our economy strong for the next 25 years. And I haven't even mentioned the oil and other natural resources we would acquire. Almost enough to make me wish I were young enough to take part in it. Eventually of course we would also have to absorb Guatemala and Panama, too. What's not to like???

[felix]

That's being contemplated as we speak. Canada is also included. ... felix

[Leadmine]

Scrounger for President!

[StarMetal]

Scrounger,

Do you think you could talk the President of Mexico to handing you over the keys to the country? Even if what you portrayed happen, how would we applease the Mexican government? After all the reason that Mexico is in the shape it is, is because of the greedy crooked government, military, and police force. Would be nice if a peaceful situation could be worked out, afterall like you mentioned Mexico is a beautiful country with is rich in culture.

Joe

[omgb]

Mexico is a degenerate **** hole of generational peaseants, criminals, filth, racisism, and polution beyond the pale. Add to that institutionalized corruption and indifference on the part of the masses and you've got an unfixable mess. Just why in the heck would any sane American want to invade and take over that garbage dump? Didn'w we learn our lesson in the Phillipines in 1898 or in Puerto Rico or the South Pacific? These areas are just holes in the dirt into which American taxpayers would be obligated to pour their hard-earned dollars. Invade Mexico? No thanks! the reason people are fleeing that place is the very reason why we should have as little to do with it as possible. That's my $.02 as one who has spent much of his life within two hours of the border and one who has traveled extensively down there.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Illegal immigration is a shell game with two shells, and one pea that moves between the two shells via a secret tunnel under the table. Republicans and businessmen say, "Americans won't do that knd of work." Democrats and those who want America to go away say, "poor downtrodden undocumented workers." Between the two corrupt, greedy manifestations of our ruling oligarchy, nothing is done about the invading horde. We are becoming more like Mexico politically every day. We have lost our border already, and our language and culture are threatened. Meanwhile, our business and political leaders are saying, "let them eat cake, the economy is prosperous." My next vote may well be cast for one of the no hope parties, as a protest against Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

[Scrounger]

Scrounger,

Do you think you could talk the President of Mexico to handing you over the keys to the country? Even if what you portrayed happen, how would we applease the Mexican government? After all the reason that Mexico is in the shape it is, is because of the greedy crooked government, military, and police force. Would be nice if a peaceful situation could be worked out, afterall like you mentioned Mexico is a beautiful country with is rich in culture.

Joe

No, I wouldn't expect the corrupt Mexican Government to like this plan or go along with it. Nor would it bother me to send them into 'exile'. If we told the Mexican people what our intentions were, I wouldn't expect very many of them or their army to oppose us. An offer to the Mexican military to switch sides, with our rates of pay and support instead of what they have now, would elict an instant surplus of troops. We would actually have to send very few of our forces down there. It's easy to bash the Mexican busboy or man who does our lawns, but don't over look the thousands of illegals who've come up here in the last hundred years and willingly, courageously fought in our wars in other lands, many times at the cost of their lives. Why? Because we had become their country, just like the many men of other countries who came over here and ended up fighting and dying in a foreign land for the benefit of our/their country. Few of us can claim our forefathers were native born American, almost all of us came from England, Germany, Italy, Ireland or somewhere else. And we are better for it, the blood mixtures make us stronger.

[Buckshot]

................I believe the problem all stems from lack of control. That's it in a nutshell. If our border with Mexico was secure, HAD it been secure I doubt we'd be having this issue now.

I guess it was 40-50 years ago when the first big Mexican immigrant issues happened that I at the time became aware of. My family on my mother's side have grown citrus in So. California since 1853 when they settled here, coming down with the Morman Battalion. Mexicans picked the oranges on the Bracero program, dealing mainly with agriculture.

Apparently the program was done away with. The details are unknown to me but something changed. I recall my grandfather lamenting the new pickers who damaged the trees when picking the fruit. One remark he made afterwards has stuck with me, and he said you could tell when there were Mexicans picking Oranges in a grove. He said it was silent (now illegals). He said before it was like a group of parrots were in the grove, with all the raucus chatter going on.

He said that 3-4 would rent an apartment and each payday would send the major portion of their earnings back home to Mexico. At the end of the season they too went back home.

During that time there was also the worker's living conditions. Not so much locally in the citrus areas, but more feilds crop workers. Again, my grandfather talked about the ramshackle shacks and general poor conditions. This was the era of Ceasar Chavez who was organizing the workers into what became the UFW, or United Farm Workers. I recall the big table grape boycotts in support of the workers.

However at this time I wasn't aware of our current issues with the literal millions of undocumented illegals we have now who flood across the border. Could we cope with half the number we have now? Possibly.

Yet it goes back to controll, and we have none. The way it is now we might as well put out a blanket call for all Mexicans to come, who want to come. Last year I read a article in the newspaper about the problems the illegals are causing in many California cities. Other then crime the problem is basicly in numbers. The city of Stockten is particularly hard hit. Workers there on temp visas have just failed ot go home. The city's infrastructure is strained beyond it's limits to cope, and primarily hard hit is it's school and medical facilities.

Hospitals, by law cannot turn anyone away. Maybe about 7 years ago my wife thought she was having a heart attack, and her medical insurance specified the Riverside county hospitals. Due to the serious possibility she was taken right in to triage to be watched. Basicly sitting in a chair in the are behind the emergancy room's window. From the waiting room I could see her sitting there. It was about 3 hours before she was taken back to an examining room to see a physician. Every chair in the waiitng room was filled, and by a huge margin it was filled with hispanics. I'm not suggesting they were all illegal, however a hospital's emergancy room is where you go, emergancy or not if you have no other means of medical attention. While there is a large Hispanic population locally, the ratio was way out of proportion. Yet in Stockton the illegal issue is a documented problem.

No controll.

My daughter has been a forensics tech with the San Bernardino PD for 7 years. The city has a large black and Hispanic population. For PC's sake, lets say the European stock population is the minority. The crime scenes and unattended deaths she rolls on are 98% minority. She and her husband spent a week at a 5 star hotel in the touristy Cancun area, and while there rented a jeep to see some of the country. It is her opinion that Mexicans have brought their style of living here to the U.S., since that is what they know. As there, here they can have grandpa and grandma, aunts, uncles, cousins etc all living in the same house. And as there, here they have their yards full of trash and various discarded junk lying around in the yard.

Here we have trash pickup. There they apparently do not have any. Being poor doesn't mean you have to live in filth, yet she see's such. Bathtubs full of feces, trash and clothes, dirty dishes, sticky floors and cabinets full of cockroaches. These are not shanty town settings but areas of blight that are homes built in the 20's and 30's, that if transported out of those areas would be worth 3-400K. In this or similar environments crime breeds. The kids form into gangs and prowl and you have the obvious societal results. There are local private church and other relief agencies that will provide aid in the form of clean used clothes, food, and money along with cleaning supplies and other basic living necessities. There is no need for living in such conditions.

Before my wife became a probation officer she worked in child protective services. One instance was of a hispanic gal already on the county welfare rolls who came in to get her allotment increased due to an impending birth. Donna informed her that due to a law passed in the past few years, after a certain number of kids, their allotment was no longer increased unless the woman could identify the father. This was so the county could attempt to re-coup some of it's (taxpayer's) money. However even though the allotment check wasn't increased, the new child goes on Medi-Cal for free medical. All taxpayer supported through property and other taxes. Naturally the woman couldn't because Julio came up from Mexico occasionally to service Juanita.

Even if the father WAS identified and could be located in Mexico, Mexico does nothing. Fathers residing in Europe are gone after with a vengance by the country they're residing in. Mexico? Ha, that's a good one.

Mexico want's to export it's problems and issues. We as a country with no borders have no way to controll the influx.

[Buckshot]

...........................One of my favorite movies is Ford's, "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" with John Wayne as a retiring cavalry captain. In the movie's documentary the question was asked, "Did Ford capture a truism"? This in having the wives stand by in tears and waving as thier husbands rode out of the fort in a column of twos, on patrol. Did James Mitchener also possibly not capture a truism In his book Centenial? If you have not read it, the portion I'm speaking of is in the settler's problems in finding labor.

Others new to the area would claim their own land, or work for others until they had enough money to buy or rent their own. Chinese were imported and the same thing happened. They were not happy to work for others and soon owned their own businesses or farms. The locals finally found their labor pool in the form of Mexicans who worked hard, and were happy to spend the winter living in shanties in Denver until the next season.

Was Mitchener a racist? Or was he painting in broad cultural stokes that were factual, and in fact captured a truism? Lest I be labeled a racist I too realize that there are Mexicans who want more then to be merely satisfied at some particular level a bit above what they have known before. But how many can we handle as a country, as a society? How many can the infrastructure support until they become self sufficient taxpaying producing members of society?

One of my shooting buddies, Larry is an avid SASS and belongs to the Cajon Cowboys. They're the largest posse in SASS. Yearly they host foreign participants who fly in for the annual End of the Trail deal. They shoot at their range free of charge to practice and get any equipment bugs worked out. Last year I got to meet a gentleman and his wife from Australia. He was a successfull businessman who was selling his business and trying to emigrate to the U.S. The roadblocks and issues he related that he was attempting to overcome were incredible. Yet we have 12-15 million ILLEGALS here now from ONE country, and we want to just say, "Oh Well" and absorb them into the population?

American industry has poured billions into Mexico, and have built plants and factories. On a direct civilian level billions more has been sent in money and tangibles such as medical aid and basic living supplies. Our church is a participant in such. My folks' church in Sierra Vista, AZ has a sister church and orphanage in Naco, Mexico right across the border. Often has been the time that my dad and others have gone down there to piant, put in rudimentary sanitation, plumbing and general upkeep. On the radio there is a current public service announcement about the "Flying Samaritans" from UC Irvine who fly into remote areas in Mexico providing basic medical aid services. They're seeking monetary donations and merchandise they can raffle to further support their efforts.

There are advertisements on TV for the Christian Children's Fund who do work in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Plus you have the sponser a child programs. Do not suggest to me that American citizens don't care.

Yet on the other hand, as much as a person might care, you can take only so much of having it crammed down your personal throat. Suggesting that since we are such a rich country we have some personal individual REQUIREMENT to wreak our local economies, and having basic services strained to the limit, as reported by the normally liberal bleeding heart media is going a bit to far. Obvious to me there is something to it.

Mexico is a country rich in natural resources. It too can be a land of opportunity if it was managed correctly. Rather then taking Mexico over as was suggested, why not allow foreign property ownership like we have in the U.S.? People paying taxes into the local coffers coudn't be a bad thing, and people buying on the local market couldn't be either? I submit that a consortium could be set up of American industry, including the Army Corps of Engineers among others to help the Mexican government build the country they should already have.

However in the meantime we have this immediate problem of a hemorrhaging border. If your bathtub is in danger of overflowing, you don't spend an hour under the house clearing a clogged drain. You handle the immediate, and turn off the faucet before your house sustains major damage. Right now the water is at the lip of the tub and some are wanting to gather tools to go under the house.

My proposal? Seal the border. This will not be without great cost, yet it will have an end in sight. There will also be immediate relief to local infrastructure. The ancient Chinese built the Great Wall to protect themselves. Why not us? Dig a ditch where practical and use the dirt to form a berm behind it, then construct a 12' wall on top. Where a ditch isn't practical, build a 16' wall 10' thick (or whatever, I'm no engineer). Fill it with shredded used tires as a means of disposal, and other solid refuse mixed with concrete.

A mainline railroad already parallels the entire route. Labor? Collected illegals could work for 6 months and paid a small amount as is prison labor, then deported across the border. Food, clothing, and medical attention in addition to housing would be an expense. Copy the technique used by the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroads in the late 1860's in constructing the transcontinental railroad. Recaptured former deportees would get a longer sentance. Let them all use thier newfound construction skills in bettering their own country.

We'd have a sealed border. No floods of illegals. The border patrol could be reduced as a further tax savings. Gain control of the border. The concept is simple, the implentation would be a bit more difficult. However, the need is current and I see no other means of attaining it.

..................Buckshot

[wildkatt]

I am not as worried about the 12 million that have invaded our country as I am about the next 12 million!!!!!!!

When the come, they bring their "fleas".

In the middle of the 20th century many easterners moved to Phoenix to help their allergies. When they got to Phoenix they planted bemuda grass that had caused the allergies back east. The Mexicans screwed up their country, give them enough numbers and time, they will screw up ours. Its in their genes.

WK

[Scrounger]

I am not as worried about the 12 million that have invaded our country as I am about the next 12 million!!!!!!!

When the come, they bring their "fleas".

In the middle of the 20th century many easterners moved to Phoenix to help their allergies. When they got to Phoenix they planted bemuda grass that had caused the allergies back east. The Mexicans screwed up their country, give them enough numbers and time, they will screw up ours. Its in their genes.

WK

That is certainly a possibility but don't sell us Americans short, I think we can beat them to it....

[C1PNR]

I just hope the mexicans, mostly Catholic, are willing to fight to prevent Sharia law.

Too many Americans seem not to have the guts.

JMHO[smilie=1:

[Duckiller]

Sharia law? duckiller

[Bigscot]

FYI

Sharia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vocabulary of Islam
Index of articles on Islam

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة‎ ​ translit: Sharī‘ah) refers to Islamic law. In the Islamic state sharia governs both public and private lives of those living within the state. Sharia governs many aspects of day-to-day life; politics, economics, banking, business law, contract law, and social issues. The term Sharia refers to the body of Islamic law. Some accept Sharia as the body of precedent and legal theory before the 19th century, while other scholars view Sharia as a changing body, and include reform Islamic legal theory from the contemporary period. [citation needed]

BS

[9.3X62AL]

Lots of good thought here.

One thing NOT getting said very much by the media--and getting almost touched on here--is the reason for Mexico being the way it is economically. Easy answer--it's a failing socialist experiment, a lot like Soviet Eastern Europe in many ways--except that Mexico chooses to allow their more productive and motivated citizens to flee north--while the Soviet bloc preferred to discourage their departure by shooting or gulaging the smartest ones, and hoping the message got through to STAY PUT.

Mexico is not far from imploding--it is hemorrhaging its most productive people, its dream sequence political orientation makes the remaining elements circle the drain all the faster, and I suspect the place will come unbolted in the near term. Then the illegal immigration will REALLY start.

When you have a corrupt, collapsing, socialistic mess sharing a border with the richest and most powerful nation in the world--how the h--l ya keep 'em down on the farm? Quite frankly--Mexico has not been much of a friend historically as far as government-to-government relations go with the USA. Scrounger's idea of a "reconquista" going southward--rather than northward as a few refried Guevarista/Hispanic wingnuts have advocated--has some merit. Sure--it's a pollution-laden cesspool in some respects, but the clean-up will EMPLOY PEOPLE. We had the Exxon Valdez and Three Mile Island, and we managed to get past those debacles in largely good order. It can be done, given sufficient will and motivation.

Sharia in most Hispanic environments wouldn't fly one tiny bit.

[grumble]

This is a bit OT from the discussion, so apologies in advance.

Watched a PBS (ug) program last night about the "real" Alamo. It went into some of the political background about how the US wound up owning Texas. Immigration into Mexican/Spanish owned Texas began in fairly small numbers with mostly legal immigrants. Then it grew and became a flood of Americans, some coming legally, but most illegally, and they began stealing and killing for land, until it was beyond the capability of the Mexican gov't to control.

The reverse flow now strikes me as ironic, to the point of being almost humorous.

Dumb question for the enlightened ones here: Why is it that state and local LEOs can't arrest illegal aliens for entering the country illegally? I know they can be arrested for other criminal acts, but apparently only the Boarder Patrol can arrest them for their undocumented status?

[Duckiller]

Los Angeles Police Department has Special Order 40. Thou shalt not inquire as to immigration status. Stated reason "immigrants should be able to report crimes without fear of extradition". Suspected reason, City council doesn't want their maids or gardeners being deported. Suspect that very few are "arrested, tried, convicted and sent to jail" for being illegal. When INS was doing sweeps most were just put on bus and sent back to the border. Local LEO needs INS to take aliens to border. Local chief have other things for their personnel to do rather than enforce this particular federal law. Try to rob a Federal Bank and see how fast LEO respond. At least one So.Cal city is training its people work with Border Patrol. Realized that a fair percentage of criminal activity was carried out by illegal aliens. Pity us poor citizens of Kalifornia,we have two Senators and a President , as well as MANY local politicans that want to turn the State over to Mexico.

[grumble]

I'm under the impression that LEOs CAN'T arrest illegals unless they've committed other crimes. Brief mention has been made on the news during the protest, and I remember about a year or two ago, and Arizona sheriff's deputy got in trouble for arresting an illegal.

Why, I don't know.

[Scrounger]

I'm under the impression that LEOs CAN'T arrest illegals unless they've committed other crimes. Brief mention has been made on the news during the protest, and I remember about a year or two ago, and Arizona sheriff's deputy got in trouble for arresting an illegal.

Why, I don't know.

I heard awhile back in California the LEOs had orders NOT to arrest the illegals unless it was a crime of violence. Something about the city/county having to support them while they were in jail and INS wouldn't pick them up and deport them as they were supposed to.

[Scrounger]

Duckiller, there is a possible light at the end of the tunnel. When the Asians take over political and financial control of California, they WILL solve that particular immigration problem. In spite of our rednecks, (not mentioning any names), our white race is the least biased of all races.

[wills]

There is an interesting article in the current issue of Texas Monthly about that and apparently the law is being enforced in Laredo. Illegals are arrested, sent to jail and told the next time they come back and get caught it will be a felony punishable by up to twenty years imprisonment, and apparently it is working. The problem seems to be most places do not have the facilities to deal with the number of “customers” they get.

[grumble]

There are some strange rules when it comes to dealing with illegal aliens. F'rinstance, during the Elian Gonzoles mess, I learned that the Feds don't need a warrant to break and enter if they have reason to believe illegal aliens may be inside the building.

I thought maybe the ""arrestability" of aliens was another of those strange rules.

[9.3X62AL]

In CA, there is a manipulation of CA law that allows State/County/Local officers to arrest or take action based on suspicion of violation of a Federal statute. Illegal immigration is usually a Federal misdemeanor, and there is no parallel State statute covering that course of conduct. Bank robbery has parallel State and Federal statutes, as do most narcotic violations and bank fraud offenses.

Hope that helps.

[grumble]

Thanks, Al. So it's a matter of jurisdiction, then? Maybe Arizona doesn't have an equivalent law like CA's. I remember the tough sheriff in some Southern AZ county (Maricopa?) lamenting that he "wasn't allowed" to detain them. Similarly, the Minutemen aren't even allowed to approach them, much less impede the speed of their progress.

[9.3X62AL]

Jurisdiction is a part of it--it's more a matter of policy and dollars, I think. No room to house them, either. There are a LOT of agendas getting serviced with this problem as at least a background element.

[C1PNR]

Just saw the Sheriff of Maricopa County on TV. I guess AZ has a law against being in the State illegally.

The Sheriff said he'll arrest them and put them into the same tent "jail" he houses other AZ law breakers. When asked about about the ability to house them all, he just said he'd put up more tents!:drinks:

BTW, no coffee (no food value) and no air conditioning, other than letting the air blow through the tents.[smilie=1: