RCBS molds VS Lyman

[walker77]

In one of my other threads i have mentioned how i am fighting with a 4 cavity 44 lyman that wont even drop at 429. Mid south has sent me a replacement and it came today. Most of them are dropping right at .429 but i really need .431 or 432 So im starting to consider just getting a 2 cavity rcbs. I really hate going to a 2 cavity but their customer service is outstanding. They have gone out of their way to make their product right. I really have had it dealing with lyman. Getting them to stand behind their product is next to impossible. Then to top it off they want me to pay for shipping back when it was their fault that they couldnt make a new product correct. So anyway, what is your guys experience on Keith style 44 mag rcbs molds? What do they drop?

[blaser.306]

I have a 240 g/c swc that throws a .432 @ 245 as cast with ww/tin and love casting with it , I had several Lee 2 cav that just about turned me off of casting altogether but now !!!!

[walker77]

Yeah, ive had my issues with lee too. I doubt i will ever buy another one either. Ive never had any problems with their dies, but their casting stuff is another story. And the customer service guy for lees molds is an idiot and a liar. I believe his name was Pat.

[HeavyMetal]

I had a pair of them up until last year and .430 / .431 was the norm as cast diameter.

Why I had two molds? Production. I could fill one while the other cooled and got pretty much the same amount of boolits as I would have with one 4 banger.

Mind you I bought these when 28 bucks would pay for one out the door I have no idea what they are now.

Reason I sold them: Bought a six banger 44 mold off a group buy as well as the 4 banger 44 full wadcutter group buy. Added a single cavity Lyman 429421 that I had HP'd and the RCBS molds just sat in the storage box.

Someone on this site bought them and is a real happy camper.

Would I do it again? You bet!

Don't know where you bought the Lyman from but suggest you ask for your money back or credit towards a pair of the RCBS molds.

By the way when you buy the RCBS molds ask for the 250-K molds. these are correct reproductions of the 429421 Keith design right down to the square lube groove!

[Newtire]

I have several Lyman moulds where the boolits fairly leap out into the bucket when I open the mould. Then I have some that a little tap is needed and some where they need quite a few whallops on the handle joint with a plastic mallet.

I have RCBS's that mostly just fall right out. The Saeco's almost cast themselves.

[walker77]

I bought it from mid south supply. I had already sent one back to them because it was dropping at .426 in one cavity. The new one is right at .429 But that is still too small for my smith. The sad thing was, out of all this style mold, it was the best one they had. They were boxing the rest of to send back to lyman, and they didnt seem too happy about it.

[mrbill2]

Every time you get a Lyman that casts to small the first comment you read is "O the cherry was dull, they used it to long." Give me a brake, they must be made of cherrywood.

[walker77]

Every time you get a Lyman that casts to small the first comment you read is "O the cherry was dull, they used it to long." Give me a brake, they must be made of cherrywood.

Thats exactly what the problem is. Im a machinist, and its not unusual to loose a couple thousandths from a dull tool. What i dont understand, is it only cost us like 20 dollars to have the tool sent out and resharpened. Why is lyman so cheap that they wont do this. Or really, they should be a large enough shop they should have some one in house that makes the tooling for them and sharpens it.

[Rusty W]

I have a RCBS 44-250-KT 2 cavity and it works great for me. I bought it at a pawn shop but it looked like it has never been used. It drops .430 with wheel weight and with 50/50 wheel weight mixed with pure lead. I shoot it in a Redhawk over 8 gr of Unique. Good boolit and good accuracy. My girlfriend also shoots it and she's a dainty lil thang & loves the .44.

[Alchemist]

walker77,

You might consider checking the group buy section....they're taking orders for a NOE custom mould...copy of the 429421 that is spec'd to drop at 434. That should fill your requirement, and it isn't really all that expensive all things considered.

As far as RCBS moulds go....I have several, and have had great luck with all of them. Lyman's old (Ideal) moulds usually cast pretty well, but the currently manufactured ones seem pretty hit & miss.

HTH

[Ken O]

I have one mold that has the opposite problem. Its an old H&G 130 and drops WW at .454. Its a real chore to get it though the 452 lubrisizer.

I thought maybe it was made for a long Colt, but I know its a popular mold for .45acp Bulleye competition.

[walker77]

That group buy mold would be perfect, but i need a mold now. I really cant be waiting till the first of the year for a 44 mold.

[happy7]

I have had the same exact experience with Lyman and a 358156 four cavity that cast at .355, except that I returned mine directly to Lyman, only to get one that casts about 357 in return. Still way too small as far as I am concerned. But what can you do? As far as getting a mold that drops bullets at .432 with WW from a production mold, it is always going to be a gamble. I don't think you can have any assurance that any factory mold is going to be that big. You might get lucky, but the odds are probably against you.

You could beagle your lyman mold and use it till the group buy mold comes in. NOE guarantees their molds. I know from experience that they will make you happy and I really don't think you can do better than them if you are really wanting that size. You can't really fault Lyman for this second mold dropping at .429. After all that is a .429 mold. I know, we like them bigger and I would be dissapointed as well, but it is in spec. Now you can also get it to cast bigger if you use linotype, but of course that is expensive and would probably not get you more than 1 or 2 thousanths.

LBT is an option as they make molds to a custom diameter, but the alignment pins on them are very tight, which I personally don't like.

Another option for a four cavity mold is Saeco. However, you are back to not havening any assurance it will drop as big as you want it. But, if you really like steel molds, as you seem to, this would be a an option. I have not bought off them lately, but they make excellent molds. And they are available in a four cavity. However, finding one that is not backordered may not be possible.

[mrbill2]

Thats exactly what the problem is. Im a machinist, and its not unusual to loose a couple thousandths from a dull tool. What i dont understand, is it only cost us like 20 dollars to have the tool sent out and resharpened. Why is lyman so cheap that they wont do this. Or really, they should be a large enough shop they should have some one in house that makes the tooling for them and sharpens it.

If the cherry can loose its dia. from being dull, how would you reshapen that cherry without changing its dia. and thus cutting a even smaller cavity. When resharpening something like a tapered chamber reamer you move all the dimensions to the rear and can maintain it's size. Not so with a cherry.
Here's a example of how Lyman recut your mold when sent back. The bullet on the left is the bullet cast from a new mold 311644. The one in the middle is the one after they recut the mold the first time and the one to the right is the recut the second time. Each and every time the mold cast SMALLER than when I returned it. Plus you can see the design was changed twice.[smilie=s:

[walker77]

When the reamer is dull, it is basicly bending the metal or pushing it out of the way, its not cutting the metal. When its resharpened they resharpen the cutting edge, not the reamer diameter. This is what they do to our tooling at work. Instead of buying a new 1,000 to 1,500 dollar carbide reamer they send it in to have it resharpened for around 30. Also, how in the world are they going to cast smaller if it was re cut? Ive never heard of a cutting tool adding to material before. But anyway, take it as how you want. I can tell by your tone that you think im full of it.

[mrbill2]

When the reamer is dull, it is basicly bending the metal or pushing it out of the way, its not cutting the metal. When its resharpened they resharpen the cutting edge, not the reamer diameter. This is what they do to our tooling at work. Instead of buying a new 1,000 to 1,500 dollar carbide reamer they send it in to have it resharpened for around 30. Also, how in the world are they going to cast smaller if it was re cut? Ive never heard of a cutting tool adding to material before. But anyway, take it as how you want. I can tell by your tone that you think im full of it.

Bingo your right. If I was to guess, chances are they don't recut molds at all.
They just sent a different mold both times, that's why the change in disign and they were smaller each time. You got to give it to them, they got making small molds down to a science.

I never said you were full of anything, I ask you a question and you answered it.
Plain and simple.:rolleyes:

[walker77]

ah, sorry, took it the wrong way

[Bret4207]

Thats exactly what the problem is. Im a machinist, and its not unusual to loose a couple thousandths from a dull tool. What i dont understand, is it only cost us like 20 dollars to have the tool sent out and resharpened. Why is lyman so cheap that they wont do this. Or really, they should be a large enough shop they should have some one in house that makes the tooling for them and sharpens it.

The did until a a decade or two ago. They used to have tool and die makers on staff and you could get what you wanted. But that costs money, so out the door those boys went and then they allegedly THREW AWAY all the old cherries they had.

Smart move Lyman...

[243winxb]

My Saeco mould in 44 dropped on the large side. Have to be sized down .003" to get .430" bullets. Alloy was magmum shot. Lyman very close to sizing diameter. Rcbs ok in 357. Want bigger add antimony.