W231 for rifle?

[jhrosier]

I have been checking out loading data for Win 231 for various handgun loads and it looks promising. I want something just a shade cleaner and more consistent than Unique.

But, that got me thinking, since 231 is very close to Unique in burning rate, would it make a good powder for moderate (~1350 fps) loads in medium sized rifle cases also. I'm thinking about cartridges in the .308 to 30-06 size with 170 to 200 gr boolits.

A great deal of what I have been reading lately seems to indicate that 231 is easier to ignite than Unique, and should give more consistent velocity. The loads that I am thinking about would be what used to be used for 100-200 yard target shooting.

Any ideas along these lines are welcome.
I'm aware of Ed Harris' work with Red Dot.

Jack

[felix]

Use N120 for ultra clean; use 4227 because it is cheaper. The loads will be circa one another. Use TWO grains more for the '06 once a 308 load is established. The pistol powders need fillers to be accurate enough in both case sizes. ... felix

[jhrosier]

felix,
I usually pay close attention to conventional wisdom, especially when if find it on this forum.
However, the filler vs. no filler debate seems to have earnest and experienced adherents both ways. I've read enough postive reports of good results with some powders when used without a filler that I just have to give it a fair trial.
One of the things that I noticed in the various reports of loading with W231 is that the ignition is apparently not sensitive to position and it is apparently a bit easier to ignite than Unique.

I may report back later to tell you that you are correct.:)

Jack

[Ramsgate]

The pistol powders need fillers to be accurate enough in both case sizes. ... felix

I shoot .45-70 and .375 H&H rifles most days and most of those days I use pistol powders (lately it's been Bullseye, 4756 and N330). I had quite dreadful luck with fillers and then a light dawned !!! Don't use fillers !!! Choose powders that ignite easily and are position insensitive. Do not obsess over a few grains left in the barrel with powders like Unique. I let that bother me but after I while ... actually quite a while as I'm a slow learner ... I realized that it didn't matter and a wet patch will always make things look like new. By the way and this is slightly off topic, I always start with a wet bore with cast bullets and the first shot is never a flier. I started that practice when I was using gallery loads and then just never stopped. I know you asked about 231 but I assume that my excellent experience with Bullseye would be similar. I try to stay sub sonic so I'm not close to the 1350 fps that you reference. Best of luck.

[jhrosier]

I found out just today that Win231 and HP38 are exactly the same powder.
This will certainly make finding loads for the handguns easier.

Jack

[garandsrus]

Jack,

How did you find that out?

Thanks,
John

[RU shooter]

I've used some W231 in a couple different 30 cal. rifles 7.5 grs with unchecked boolits shot well out to 100 .I've loaded it up to 10 grs with checked boolits but it shot about the same as unique nothing special so I just stuck to unique .I use it as my inbetween powder for plinker loads Bullseye for 1000 fps or under, W231 for 1000-1300 fps and Unique above that.

[jhrosier]

Jack,

How did you find that out?

Thanks,
John

John,
The fellow who runs the local gunshop showed me a chart that he got somewhere recently. The only equivalent powders that I remember on the list were:
W296=H110
W231=HP38

there were a couple of others also.

I went to hogdon's website and checked their loading data for several pistol cartridges and sure enough, everywhere there was a W231 load there was also a HP38 load with the exact same data except for the powder name.

Jack

[Ramsgate]

Jack,
How did you find that out?


I can't speak for Jack but I found out from page 29 in the October 2009 issue of Handloader.

H-110 same as 296
HP-38 same as 231
HS-6 same as discontinued 540
H-414 same as 760

[jhrosier]

... Bullseye for 1000 fps or under, W231 for 1000-1300 fps and Unique above that.

Thanks, that gives me a starting point.

BTW, I used W231 for the first time today, in my .44 Spl.
It is a lot cleaner than Unique!
Accuracy was not quite as good as my 2400 load so I'm going to bump it up a little and see how it reacts. The gun that I was shooting seems to thrive on heavier than normal loads.

Jack